I think whether the starters were in or not is less relevant than the limited contact rules and thr fact that teams are experimenting and not running their full playbook. In any event practice and preseason success is better than the alternative it all needs to be taken with a pile of salt
Day Two Of TB/Phins Practice Tweets HERE!
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ugadolfan
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Don’t forget Raekwon Davis in your listReally hopeful for Jackson. Beyond the need/importance for the team, it makes sense that he'd look and play better for an offensive staff with a clear vision, and one that will utilize his athleticism. Of course, another year is also big for a player with the physical tools to play OT but who needed a lot of refinement coming out of USC and who is young relative to his experience and who had his progress temporarily stunted by a bone-marrow transplant.
I had a Top 40 grade on him, because I thought he had the tools and makeup to develop into a plus starter. I didn't have him Top 20, because I thought he'd need time and the right situation to develop. Prior to 2022, you would have a hard time finding a worse situation to develop. It seems that's changing.
It looks like Igbinoghene is gonna be a miss. I hope he turns it around, but that pick bothered me more than the Jackson pick. If you're going to go for a toolsy CB (which you usually should imo), don't go for pretty good athletes, go for guys with real tools. Eric Stokes is a great example of a guy who had a lot of the same criticisms coming out as Igbinoghene. Stokes was already better imo, but the big difference is that Stokes runs in the low 4.3's/high 4.2's and has plus length. There's just a lot more margin for error with those kinds of tools.
But, my point is that the 2020 class looks sooo much better if Tua and Jackson hit. Combined with the 2021 class (looking at early picks): Tua, Jackson, Igbinoghene, Hunt, Waddle, Phillips, Holland, and Eichenberg, you have a nice mix of guys who have All Pro potential and solid players who fill important roles (3/5 of the OL).
Good catch.
I had AJ in that top tier of Ts in that draft, but he was my lowest rated one. I had him as very boom or bust. And coming off of that bone marrow transplant I figured it would be at least a year before he developed the functional strength for the NFL. But based on the positional importance, his raw talent and how the draft broke I saw it as a logical pick there. I know they were trying to trade up for Wirfs, but couldn't get any takers. He was the T I wanted and apparently also the guy they wanted.Really hopeful for Jackson. Beyond the need/importance for the team, it makes sense that he'd look and play better for an offensive staff with a clear vision, and one that will utilize his athleticism. Of course, another year is also big for a player with the physical tools to play OT but who needed a lot of refinement coming out of USC and who is young relative to his experience and who had his progress temporarily stunted by a bone-marrow transplant.
I had a Top 40 grade on him, because I thought he had the tools and makeup to develop into a plus starter. I didn't have him Top 20, because I thought he'd need time and the right situation to develop. Prior to 2022, you would have a hard time finding a worse situation to develop. It seems that's changing.
It looks like Igbinoghene is gonna be a miss. I hope he turns it around, but that pick bothered me more than the Jackson pick. If you're going to go for a toolsy CB (which you usually should imo), don't go for pretty good athletes, go for guys with real tools. Eric Stokes is a great example of a guy who had a lot of the same criticisms coming out as Igbinoghene. Stokes was already better imo, but the big difference is that Stokes runs in the low 4.3's/high 4.2's and has plus length. There's just a lot more margin for error with those kinds of tools.
But, my point is that the 2020 class looks sooo much better if Tua and Jackson hit. Combined with the 2021 class (looking at early picks): Tua, Jackson, Igbinoghene, Hunt, Waddle, Phillips, Holland, and Eichenberg, you have a nice mix of guys who have All Pro potential and solid players who fill important roles (3/5 of the OL).
I do suspect that AJ will develop into at least a functional RT and quite possibly a good one. Reality is that situations matter. And coming off of a surgery, his age and horrible coaching in the NFL he understandably struggled. All of those posts calling for him to be cut immediately and how we were doomed if we didn't sign a RT are ignorant about player development.
I do expect Iggy will be a miss. He won't be one of the worst picks in history or any of that nonsense, but still a miss. Reality is that the NFL bust rate for 1st round picks is about 50%. Going into that draft I figured that if we hit on two out of three we'd be doing great.
And frankly adding in Hunt, Davis and Brandon Jones in that draft (not to mention Blake Ferguson) makes it an exceptional draft.
To me, plug and play with physical tools is going to be on a different tier than a guy I project to need more development. Immediate help is a big part of that, but a guy who is already good is much more likely to hit, assuming the physical tools are comparable.
I think Jackson and the new staff can make good on his talent, but it's not a given, and if Miami didn't get some new coaches, I'm pretty confident he would have washed out in Miami. I think Tristan Wirfs and Jedrick Wills would have been good anywhere - Andrew Thomas, too. I had MB as the 4th and last in that tier, with his ability to stay healthy at his size as my main concern and his talent as his main selling point.
I feel a Top 20 pick is too rich for an OL that needs serious work. Too many things can go wrong, and the payoff isn't enough to justify the risk - losing a pick where you're in range to draft a WR, Edge, or DB with star potential. But, if Jackson is solid or better the next couple of years, Miami is in a great spot with the additions of Waddle and Hill. The better your process, the less perfect you need to be, and Grier's process has been good the last few years.
ugadolfan
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I agree with almost all of this except the first sentence of the last paragraph. There’s just such a shortage of quality linemen available and the demand is so high that you have to reach for these guys to a certain extent. It’s also such a development-heavy position, even Andrew thomas who started as a freshman in the SEC struggled out of the gate and didn’t become a dependable guy until his second year.
If Austin Jackson can be in the 16-20 range of starting right tackles this year then I trust that his struggles were more related to his rawness and lack of coaching and he can be the guy going forward.
Edit: your last sentence is spot on though, love a nice football life lesson
Appreciate you. I think it's about understanding that Austin Jackson is in a tier with guys like Sam Cosmi. Cosmi went much later and started better (elite athleticism probably helped), but based on tape and talent, I think they landed in a similar range. Buffalo got Brown even later. But, if you're going to go for that kind of OT, you need the right infrastructure (coaches, surrounding talent, and veteran leadership).
The initial plan with Jackson was bad, and probably destined to fail, but the pivot to the new staff and bringing in a bunch of veteran talent could right that wrong. Either way, though, I don't think you need to spend a Top 20 pick ok Jackson's profile.
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I guess I’m in the minority that has been shocked with how Austin Jackson has played considering how I felt when we drafted him
I did not his struggles in college that have happened in the pros, thought he would be an upper echelon projection.
Been a rough two years but here’s to hoping that he doesn’t bust and shows value in the first round
I did not his struggles in college that have happened in the pros, thought he would be an upper echelon projection.
Been a rough two years but here’s to hoping that he doesn’t bust and shows value in the first round
Feverdream
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You mean... umm... THE single most important throw in football?
THAT intermediate throw in the RZ?
Feverdream
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I am a believer that you attempt to hit home runs in the first round...
And drafting a 20 year old guy with the character and tools of Austin Jackson is EXACTLY what you do in the middle of the first.
cltchperf
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Dude, it's one pass lol. And that's **** camera angle, I can';t even tell if it's short or off to the left. Just likely Tua threw to a spot but Wilson got held up from the jam. It's much ado about nothing. Yeah Tua's been throwing dimes and arm looking good. I guarentee you, every qb has a throw that's off or iffy. Some reason ppl have it out for tua to try to find something bad and to go after him for. It's BS
Joe Dolfan
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It was either the defender grabbing the jersey or just a shitty pass.
Contrary to Tuapologists' beliefs, I don't hate Tua. Like all QBs, he makes some bad throws. This could definitely be one of those throws.
Exceptional in that not a single player taken in that draft is a game-altering player. Not one. If Tua can be the guy then much is forgiven but solid starters, mediocre players and a ton of whiffs (guys not on the roster any longer and guys like Iggy) and I suggest it was an exceptionally lame draft considering we had 3 no 1s and 13 picks going in. Picks and money part II
At this point, if Iggy does come around and become a standout player, I'd be immensely impressed with the foresight of the scout team and Grier. Not holding my breath.
For a guy who voted on the poll that you’ve don’t think Tua is the answer, you sure are defending him feverishly. Change your mind?