Deep Threats: Mike Wallace vs Kenny Stills
- Thread starter normaldude
- Start date
-
- Tags
- kenny stills mike wallace
On the field playing the game...there is literally NO difference in that speed. You will never be able to tell the difference in 4.22 and 4.28 speed.
The top WR's in the game are not the fastest guys in the game at all. Guys much slower than Wallace get far greater separation than he ever does. He is not complete, and now he's Minn's problem.
phins_4_ever
E12 FH Tailgate Gang
You really can bitch and moan as much as you want to about Wallace but does that bring the required accuracy to Tannehill? Wallace has his shares of faults but so does Tannehill. After 3 years he has now a new system for the second year, we flip flopped half of our receiving core, have a 1000 yard runner which begs the question: are you going to evaluate Tannehill this year or will you find excuses like "oh they have to get in sync first"? Or the common theme: it's the OL, coaching, owner, fans, stadium, waterboy etc?
It really doesn't matter how good Stills is or how much better than Wallace he could be. Stills got his highlight films from a QB like Brees. Tannehill has to prove himself now.
Deep throws require arm strength and more than anything accuracy. They are timing patterns. What most of you consider a great plays by Stills with Brees is nothing but a QB and a WR on the same page. The 'amazing' grabs by Stills is the result of a WR being in the spot where the QB throws the ball and taking advantage of the defender not really knowing where the ball is placed. But the excuses with Wallace ranged from "Wallace ran to fast" when Tannehil underthrew him to "Wallace was to slow" when Tannehill overthrew him to "Wallace ran the wrong route" when they were completely off. Next year the train of excuses will stop.
phins_4_ever
E12 FH Tailgate Gang
I didn't get it either. In 3 years he had 20 something TDs for us, caught for over 3000 yards. He was a deep threat for us. Excellent receiver.
So Be
Club Member
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2006
- Messages
- 16,572
- Reaction score
- 2,216
Last year, Brees was #3 going deep with 27 of 64, 51%. Tannehill was #13 with 16 of 53, 38%.
In 2013, Brees was #11 at 40%. Tannehill was #17 at 33%.
Wallace has been no help to anyone throwing deep in over 4 years. H was 6 of 31 for Big Ben in 2012, and 10 of 24 in 2011, which was pretty good.
IMO, if Brees would have had Wallace the last two years, Tannehill's deep accuracy would have been better than Brees. Ben got a lot better throwing to Antonio Brown, and he is a HOFer.
Wallace going deep just has not worked for years, and will not be any better in Minny. The Brees comparison, on throwing deep only, are words in the breeze.
In 2013, Brees was #11 at 40%. Tannehill was #17 at 33%.
Wallace has been no help to anyone throwing deep in over 4 years. H was 6 of 31 for Big Ben in 2012, and 10 of 24 in 2011, which was pretty good.
IMO, if Brees would have had Wallace the last two years, Tannehill's deep accuracy would have been better than Brees. Ben got a lot better throwing to Antonio Brown, and he is a HOFer.
Wallace going deep just has not worked for years, and will not be any better in Minny. The Brees comparison, on throwing deep only, are words in the breeze.
russianbear
Club Member
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2011
- Messages
- 5,594
- Reaction score
- 2,017
FACTS (in your face)
So Be
Club Member
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2006
- Messages
- 16,572
- Reaction score
- 2,216
And no one can argue. It comes from the NFL.
Not saying that Tannehill has been great on deep throws but, is a whole lot better than most are giving him credit for.
That was my point. Fryar was great as a Dolphin and he came from New England. Instant rapport with Marino. Wallace won't have left too many fans with a tear in their eye. Some negative comments on Stills. Not sure why. Stills can be a seriously good #2. I want Landry doing what he did last season and improving more but Phins need a #1WR. Wallace flattered to deceive imo.
normaldude
Starter
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2003
- Messages
- 2,528
- Reaction score
- 571
My analysis of Tannehill has been the same.
Ryan Tannehill is good at throwing low-trajectory direct laser beams, but weak at high arcing a deep ball that allows a 4.3 speedster to accelerate through the ball.
I have no idea what you're talking about. I wasn't the one throwing out the "oh they have to get in sync first" excuse. For the last two years, I've said that Tannehill + Wallace were a poor fit for each other and they shouldn't be on the same team. Meanwhile tons of finheaven posters were shouting me down by saying "oh they have to get in sync first".
sorry, I was under the impression that mike Wallace was a professional athlete, and that he would actually make an effort to practice with his QB during the offseason, and that the great mike Wallace would never fake an injury to avoid practice and that his majestic self would never under any circumstances give on a play. Turns out I was wrong about mike Wallace.
Before I have to read this crap yet again, I want to see your proof of this. You getting lost in this fabrication should be long enough to where I don't have to read such garbage again.
normaldude
Starter
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2003
- Messages
- 2,528
- Reaction score
- 571
Ok, here it is..
ANALYSIS: Ryan Tannehill is good at throwing low-trajectory direct laser beams, but weak at high arcing a deep ball that allows a 4.3 speedster to accelerate through the ball (where the receiver's thumbs are pointed away from each other, like the classic Mike Wallace over-the-shoulder deep-ball-in-stride).
Therefore, in order for Ryan Tannehill to consistently threaten deep, he will need strong catch radius receivers, who will give Tannehill big bullseye targets to shoot at.
COLLEGE: Coming out of college, some people did notice that Tannehill had issues with the deep ball, especially the over-the-shoulder bucket throws.
"Accuracy: Significantly better on short to intermediate routes than deep routes."
http://www.sbnation.com/2012/2/10/2789953/ryan-tannehill-2012-nfl-draft-scouting-report
"Accuracy on the deep ball is inconsistent; struggles finding the right trajectory to drop it in over a receiver's shoulder. Struggles hitting receivers on the move in stride."
http://www.draftace.com/2012/01/08/ryan-tannehill-scouting-report-2/
"Weight transfer and hip rotation on his deep balls and bucket throws is an issue and he tends to underthrow them."
http://draftbreakdown.com/scouting-report-ryan-tannehill/
WR MIKE WALLACE: In 2013, Miami gave Mike Wallace a $60 million contract because he was considered the top deep threat in the NFL, with a resume full of jaw dropping deep-ball-in-stride TDs.
But Tannehill+Wallace would have two full years together, and..
1) During both training camps, journalists reported the same thing: Deep ball chemistry between Tannehill & Wallace was not good.
2) In actual games, Tannehill+Wallace never successfully connected on a deep-ball-in-stride TD. Not even once.
3) Tannehill+Wallace deep ball efficiency was terrible..
Throws of 20+ Yards, Last 2 Seasons
-------------------------------------
Mike Wallace
- Targets: 54
- Receptions: 12
- Completion%: 22.2%
- Yards: 460
- TD: 2
Kenny Stills
- Targets: 30
- Receptions: 15
- Completion%: 50%
- Yards: 710*
- TD: 7
*47.3 Yds per Rec (leads all NFL WRs)
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12477833/mike-wallace-traded-minnesota-vikings-miami-dolphins
-------------------------------------
Ryan Tannehill & Mike Wallace were a poor match for each other. Ryan Tannehill is good at throwing low-trajectory direct laser beams, but weak in high arcing a deep ball into a super-fast bucket. On the other hand, Mike Wallace's strength is that he's a super-fast WR that catches the over-the-shoulder deep go route in stride. But on direct throws, he's a body catcher with a small catch radius.
Where Tannehill is strongest, Mike Wallace is weakest. Where Mike Wallace is strongest, Tannehill is weakest. It's no surprise that they never developed any chemistry.
Tannehill was ok at arcing the ball to slower receivers (4.5 Hartline, 4.7 Clay). But when high-arcing the deep ball to 4.3 Wallace, Tannehill's throws were very inconsistent.
On the other hand, here's Ben Roethlisberger hitting the Mike Wallace deep ball in stride..
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twz6SH0ylpk
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arKd8qnPB-I
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08f3uKVpebA
- http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/0ap1000000079536/QB-Roethlisberger-to-WR-Wallace-82-yd-pass-TD
- http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/09000d5d822f8515/QB-Roethlisberger-to-WR-Wallace-40-yd-pass-TD
- http://prod.www.steelers.clubs.nfl....-yard-TD/1d17c295-d111-4525-b9fa-fe1248167c12
After Mike Wallace left Pittsburgh, Ben Roethlisberger was still hitting deep-ball-in-stride TDs..
- http://www.nfl.com/videos/pittsburg...Wk-14-Can-t-Miss-Play-Goodbye-Martavis-Bryant
- http://www.nfl.com/videos/pittsburgh-steelers/0ap3000000425198/Wk-10-Can-t-Miss-Play-M-80-explosion
TODAY: Some analysts/journalists think that Ryan Tannehill is simply bad at throwing the deep ball.
"Tannehill also struggles mightily to throw the deep ball, which is a weakness that may not be fixable." - James Walker, ESPN, 2/10/2015
- http://espn.go.com/blog/miami-dolphins/post/_/id/13423/is-ryan-tannehill-a-100-million-quarterback
However, I disagree. My view is that in order for Ryan Tannehill to consistently threaten deep, he will need strong catch radius receivers, who will give Tannehill big bullseye targets to shoot at.
WR KENNY STILLS: I was very happy when Miami replaced Mike Wallace with Kenny Stills, who is a much better match for Ryan Tannehill's skillset.
- On direct throws, Mike Wallace is a natural body catcher.
- On direct throws, Kenny Stills is a natural hands catcher.
Mike Wallace: "..Wallace is a dependable receiver, but most evaluators would describe him as a "body catcher." He prefers to trap and cradle the ball against his chest rather than snatching the ball cleanly out of the air. There are times when all receivers are forced to cradle the ball, due to ball positioning or the proximity of defenders, but the fact that Wallace routinely utilizes this method suggests he isn't a confident pass catcher.."
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap10...greg-jennings-which-freeagent-prize-will-rise
Kenny Stills: Good hands. Flexible, and can make the adjustment to reel in off-target throws. Shows body control and the ability to catch the football at the high point.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profiles/kenny-stills?id=2540202
FUTURE: The Miami Dolphins are finally on track to having a top 5 offense.
Tannenbaum clearly sees what I see: The best match for Ryan Tannehill are strong catch radius receivers who give big bullseye targets for Tannehill.
This is why we kept Jarvis Landry, and replaced Wallace & Clay with Stills & Jordan Cameron.
Going forward, Amari Cooper, Kevin White, DeVante Parker are all natural hands catchers, with enough size & speed to threaten deep, win contested situations, and would be good matches for Tannehill. So if we draft one of those WRs, and if we add OG Evan Mathis, then I would say that we're on track to having a top 5 offense.
Sorry to waste your time, we weren't on the same page here. I think it's pretty obvious that Tannehill struggled deep with Wallace, that was never a debate and the blame could be divided between the two. **** MW.
What I took from your "analysis" was that Tannehill can't put touch on the ball and can only throw "lazer beams" which is complete BS.
