Did Saban Contradict himself?

landshark44

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The other day saban made an analogy of his approach to scouting players. It was something to the effect of having a list when you go to the supermarket. He made the point that you don't buy more ketchup when you have ketchup, when it is mustard that you really need.


just after that he said that he thinks that it would be a mistake to draft a player based on a team need, and he thinks that he should take the best available player.

Did I misunderstand him? Or did he contradict himself with these two statements?
 

Jaj

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landshark44 said:
The other day saban made an analogy of his approach to scouting players. It was something to the effect of having a list when you go to the supermarket. He made the point that you don't buy more ketchup when you have ketchup, when it is mustard that you really need.


just after that he said that he thinks that it would be a mistake to draft a player based on a team need, and he thinks that he should take the best available player.
Did I misunderstand him? Or did he contradict himself with these two statements?
At the #2 overall pick I think he's reffering to. The shopping thing was really about free agency.
 

phins17

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This is what I like about Saban, he keeps everyone quessing.
 

armyfinfan

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Think of it like this, you can buy the store brand ketchup or you can buy Heinz the top of the line. They are both ketchup but one is just a little better than the other.
 

yamutha3002

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Isn't it kind of funny how Saban always finds a way to make some type of an analogy out of his wife? I think he has mentioned her in just about every other interview I have seen or read of his. He mentioned her on sports xtra he mentioned her on nfl network hes mnetioned her in quite a few interviews too. Either he's really close with her and wants to make her feel special or she has got to be a royal pain in his *** for her to constantly be on his mind?
 

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landshark44 said:
The other day saban made an analogy of his approach to scouting players. It was something to the effect of having a list when you go to the supermarket. He made the point that you don't buy more ketchup when you have ketchup, when it is mustard that you really need.


just after that he said that he thinks that it would be a mistake to draft a player based on a team need, and he thinks that he should take the best available player.

Did I misunderstand him? Or did he contradict himself with these two statements?
What he is saying is that he has plenty of ketchup so he would like to buy some grey poupon mustard. :googly:
 

Jaj

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yamutha3002 said:
Isn't it kind of funny how Saban always finds a way to make some type of an analogy out of his wife? I think he has mentioned her in just about every other interview I have seen or read of his. He mentioned her on sports xtra he mentioned her on nfl network hes mnetioned her in quite a few interviews too. Either he's really close with her and wants to make her feel special or she has got to be a royal pain in his *** for her to constantly be on his mind?
He also talked about discipline with his son and daughter when it came to Jay Williams. Hey atleast he doesn't look like he'll be any scandals :confused:
 

Muck

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landshark44 said:
The other day saban made an analogy of his approach to scouting players. It was something to the effect of having a list when you go to the supermarket. He made the point that you don't buy more ketchup when you have ketchup, when it is mustard that you really need.


just after that he said that he thinks that it would be a mistake to draft a player based on a team need, and he thinks that he should take the best available player.

Did I misunderstand him? Or did he contradict himself with these two statements?
The teams that draft BPA usually do a heckuva lot better than the teams that draft for need. That's the way it's supposed to be. Look at how we've drafted in the first round the past decade or so (when we've actually had a pick).

Most rookies cannot be counted on to make major contributions and/or start in their first year. Certainly not at a high level. Free agency is for filling needs, while the draft is for building foundations.
 

ckparrothead

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Think of it like this, you can buy the store brand ketchup or you can buy Heinz the top of the line. They are both ketchup but one is just a little better than the other.
That doesn't really explain the contradiction, and I noticed it too. The way Saban explained it, it certainly sounded like need was a factor that is built into the rating system itself. For example, you might rate a RB a "90" based purely on talent, then rate a QB an "89" and if you strictly follow the rating system, even if you have a RB you take the RB over the QB. On the outset, that's what it sounds like.

However, I think he might have been getting at player attributes. Everyone keeps trying to get a beat on who is a "Belichick type" player and who is a "Saban type" player. We know that we could see trends under Wannstedt and Spielman. They preferred smaller, faster type players, with certain common characteristics (one of them being speed). What Saban might be saying is that for different positions, you rate based on different characteristics. Or, he may actually be saying that you rate the same position based on different characteristics, depending on what kinds of characteristics you've already got at that position and at other positions.

For example. Miami consistently graded linebackers higher based on pure foot speed. But, what happens in a situation where you want a defense that has big dump trucks that can pile all over anything that approaches the line of scrimmage? Every time you went to the linebacker well, you kept going for the best linebacker you could find, which was usually a speedster. So, you don't have those role players on your defense. You're stuck with basically one kind of defense.

This still, however, clearly takes need into account in the ratings system, but at least it's not as simple as "Well, I think we need a RB more than a QB at this point, so we're going to take a RB no matter what." Furthermore, I'm not sure it would apply to every position. Saban will probably let Linehan decide much of the offense for himself where it concerns personnel, and if Linehan decides hey, I need speedy backs in my offense at all times, I need speedy WRs in my offense at all times, and I need big mutha effing linemen at all times, Saban may ask him a few pointed questions about certain situations and what would Linehan do to overcome the situation, just to prove it, but if Linehan presents a good argument, I do think you could see a consistent bias one way or the other on offense in certain groups especially the OL, and especially the WRs.
 

feelthepain

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landshark44 said:
The other day saban made an analogy of his approach to scouting players. It was something to the effect of having a list when you go to the supermarket. He made the point that you don't buy more ketchup when you have ketchup, when it is mustard that you really need.


just after that he said that he thinks that it would be a mistake to draft a player based on a team need, and he thinks that he should take the best available player.

Did I misunderstand him? Or did he contradict himself with these two statements?

No contradiction, both are true it just depends on the sittuation. You can look at it both ways and both ways apply to us. There will come a time when the best player avalible won't help and other times when you can't pass on the best player avalible. You have to have an open mind when approaching the draft, Saban was the man when BB looked at the draft and BB did just fine using Saban as his guru. Now Saban is a fin fresh out of college and will be the man for the next few years at knowing who's who. BTW don't hang on every word you read, Saban is trying to send false signals to confuse. It's working wouldn't you agree?
 

ckparrothead

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The teams that draft BPA usually do a heckuva lot better than the teams that draft for need. That's the way it's supposed to be. Look at how we've drafted in the first round the past decade or so (when we've actually had a pick).

Most rookies cannot be counted on to make major contributions and/or start in their first year. Certainly not at a high level. Free agency is for filling needs, while the draft is for building foundations.
I think Saban may have been referring to a grading system that is free of attribute bias. Like I was just saying, clearly on the OL, DL, LBs, CBs, and Safeties we were looking at players with defined skill sets depending on the position. DTs we look for strooooong mutha effers to tie up the blockers. But what happens when you need a high level of passrush? We use to solve that problem by getting DEs that can passrush from the DT position. We had a consistent bias toward fast fast DEs too (see Taylor, D.Bowens, Ogunleye). But, what happens in a situation where you're running a 4-3 but you know the odds are very good that they're running the ball? Especially what happens if you are in a situation where your base set defense has been UNABLE to stop the run, and you want to infuse some talent into the situation to change that, rather than playing different defenses taht can be tricky and may result in a big play for the other side?

I think this has been especially true of linebackers, and it may be the reason Belichick keeps so many damned linebackers on the roster. We consistently graded higher for speed, because we needed speed for this base defense. But like I said in some situations you don't need speed you need dump trucks. Just like with corners sometimes you need corners who are good at pressing and sometimes you need corners that can match up speed-wise.

The whole debate about drafting based on need...yeah everyone tries to say you take the best player available, but that's not what teams should be striving for, IMO. Everyone has to pay SOME attention to need. You don't draft Ronnie Brown at #2 if you had LaDainian Tomlinson sitting in the stables already. Sorry, but anyone that does that would be a fool. Still, I don't think Saban was pointing to a need-based rating system, but rather a complicated rating system that does not show biases one way or the other as far as attributes a player. Speedier does not necessarily = better, and neither does stronger. The grading system should merely recognize that some players play the game differently than others and can be just as effective when harnessed correctly.
 

fishypete

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Alot to do about nothing....we still have no idea what player or position Saban make take. The only thing we do know is....he didn't mention Mayo.
 
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