Did the research on this post from Fansided.

[Serik]

Remember that Belicheck was worthless until he HAD to put Brady in.

He wasn't worthless but he definitely built his legacy off of the Bledsoe injury!
Talk about fate!

Those two sicken me, but damn they get the job done on a consistent basis!

 

[Penthos]

I'm not the one who started with that comparison, the OP did...

In any case, AS I STATED, they were failures in their first stints, deserved to be fired and were fired. For whatever reason, that coaching job wasn't working for them and they needed a change of scenery to grow as coaches.

The same may be true for Philbin, but that does nothing for us as Dolphin fans.

In order for that experience to be at all relevant to Philbin in his current situation and us as Dolphin fans is if they had stayed at their first stint long past when they should reasonably have been let go and managed to lead that same team to great success.

I don't believe either of them would have figured to out with those teams because the longer a coach goes without seeing success, the more toxic those environments become... Among fans and among players. And that is just not conducive to success.


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The OP started the comparison with their FIRST YEARS as HCs. YOU, Skapefin, YOU modified that comparison to be Philbin's first years as an HC with BB and Carrolls first years with NE and Seattle.

Furthermore, you are stating as fact that the coaches needed to be fired and implied they would not have been successful had they continued to be coaches with the teams that let them go. But you have no way of knowing that to be true. You are just making assumptions and invalid comparisons all over the place to back your view that Philbin must go. I'm pretty disappointed quite honestly because I've always respected you as a poster but you are resorting to completely dishonest BS here. The fact that you are being thanked by WV should seriously concern you.

 

[SkapePhin]

The OP started the comparison with their FIRST YEARS as HCs. YOU, Skapefin, YOU modified that comparison to be Philbin's first years as an HC with BB and Carrolls first years with NE and Seattle.

Furthermore, you are stating as fact that the coaches needed to be fired and implied they would not have been successful had they continued to be coaches with the teams that let them go. But you have no way of knowing that to be true. You are just making assumption and invalid comparison all over the place to back your view that Philbin must go. I'm pretty disappointed, quite honestly because I've always respected you as a poster but you are resorting to completely dishonest BS here. The fact that you are being thanked by WV should seriously concern you.

YOU need to re-read the OP...

He specifically mentions BB's first 3 years with Patriots.

And I actually know it to be true because I can't think of a single example in the modern era where a HC has started his career with a team without a playoff appearance within the first 3 years and went on to achieve great success with that same team. The closest I can think of is Jeff Fisher who went 4 straight years with a 7-9/8-8 record before reaching the playoffs. He did go to the super bowl in that 5th year though. But I'm not sure Jeff Fisher is the beacon of hope we would like when it comes to Philbin.


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[SkapePhin]

Penthos:

Direct quote from the OP:

Bill Bellichick went 25-23 his first three seasons as the Patriots HC. Jason Garrett went 24-24 his first three full seasons as the Cowboys HC. Sean Payton: 25-23. Pete Carroll's first three seasons with the Seahawks: 25-23.


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[JTC111]

Remember that Belicheck was worthless until he HAD to put Brady in.

How did Belichick do the year Brady was out just about all season with an injury?

But those were NOT their FIRST teams as HCs. Don't dismiss this thread because it doesn't fit your narrative. The OP is absolutely right. BOTH coaches in the Super Bowl would have been considered complete and absolute FAILURES in their first attempts at HC by your standards and you know it. You would have fired them both and you would have been dead wrong.

They OP cherrypicked stats to support his narrative in limiting his comparison strictly to season records and not to outcomes which are arguably more important assuming you'd rather go 10-6 and win the Super Bowl than go 12-4 and lose in the Conference Championship game.

The other important yet overlooked factor is whether those coaches improved the teams they inherited.

Belichick inherited an 8-8 team which he improved to 11-5 by his second yearl
Garrett inherited a team that was 1-7 at the mid-season mark. He led them to a 5-3 record over the last 8 games. By his 4th year, the Cowboys were in the playoffs.
Peyton inherited a 3-13 team and turned them into a 10-6 team the next year.
Carroll inherited a 5-11 team and turned them into an 11-5 team in his third year.

All of the coaches the OP mentioned achieved significant improvements. By contrast, Philbin inherited a 6-10 team and has them sitting at 8-8 after three years. Philbin inherited a team with a better record than every coach the OP named except Belichick. Both Peyton and Carroll made the playoffs by their third years despite inheriting weaker teams. Garrett took 4 years to make the playoffs but he inherited the worst team of the bunch, including Philbin.

The OP's argument falls flat when we look at the records of the coaches he named in context.

 

[SkapePhin]

How did Belichick do the year Brady was out just about all season with an injury?



They OP cherrypicked stats to support his narrative in limiting his comparison strictly to season records and not to outcomes which are arguably more important assuming you'd rather go 10-6 and win the Super Bowl than go 12-4 and lose in the Conference Championship game.

The other important yet overlooked factor is whether those coaches improved the teams they inherited.

Belichick inherited an 8-8 team which he improved to 11-5 by his second yearl
Garrett inherited a team that was 1-7 at the mid-season mark. He led them to a 5-3 record over the last 8 games. By his 4th year, the Cowboys were in the playoffs.
Peyton inherited a 3-13 team and turned them into a 10-6 team the next year.
Carroll inherited a 5-11 team and turned them into an 11-5 team in his third year.

All of the coaches the OP mentioned achieved significant improvements. By contrast, Philbin inherited a 6-10 team and has them sitting at 8-8 after three years. Philbin inherited a team with a better record than every coach the OP named except Belichick. Both Peyton and Carroll made the playoffs by their third years despite inheriting weaker teams. Garrett took 4 years to make the playoffs but he inherited the worst team of the bunch, including Philbin.

The OP's argument falls flat when we look at the records of the coaches he named in context.

Exactly.


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[NCFINFAN13]

Not to beat a dead horse but, just because a head coach goes .500 in his first three seasons, doesn't mean he will be mediocre forever. Bill Bellichick went 25-23 his first three seasons as the Patriots HC. Jason Garrett went 24-24 his first three full seasons as the Cowboys HC. Sean Payton: 25-23. Pete Carroll's first three seasons with the Seahawks: 25-23. Have some perspective about football history and try to understand that you can't just clean house and expect to find a championship GM, HC, OC, DC, and QB in an offseason. Championship winning teams are built through consistency in both vision and execution. It makes me sad that it seems like all these "Dolfans" want the team to fail so they can watch them try to rebuild the team all over again. <------- This is all correct.

Your horse is dead. Philbin is below the very bar you, yourself set. He is in fact below .500 (.479)

 

[SkapePhin]

What part of FIRST THREE SEASONS don't you understand?

Other than trying to **** on the parade, do you have anything relevant to add? Because from the looks of your posts, you do not.

It's nice to see that you didn't read past the OP's first sentence and feel empowered to blast me over and over for somehow taking him out of context. And then when you finally realize your error you vanish from the scene... You guys are really quick to jump to Philby's defense... At your own peril.


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[FearTheBeard]

Hey I could care less what his record is, the guy's clueless and if you can't see that too bad. I didn't watch these other guys when they were younger, but I'm damn sure they weren't learning the basics of HC'ing heading into their 4th season after making the same mistakes time after time.

 

[jfleag61]

Sean Payton: 10-6 first year coaching; made it to 2nd round of playoffs

Belichick: Won the Super Bowl in his 2nd year with Patriots.

Carrol: Won playoff games in Year 1 and 3 with Seahawks.

Yup, completely comparable to Philbin.

What a complete failure of a thread...


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as far as Carrol and Belicheck go, you can't use the Seahawks and Patriots. You have to go back to their FIRST head coaching jobs if you are going to compare starts, this is Joes first gig, remember?

 

[JTC111]

as far as Carrol and Belicheck go, you can't use the Seahawks and Patriots. You have to go back to their FIRST head coaching jobs if you are going to compare starts, this is Joes first gig, remember?

Skape didn't choose the teams, the OP did. Have a look-see...

Not to beat a dead horse but, just because a head coach goes .500 in his first three seasons, doesn't mean he will be mediocre forever. Bill Bellichick went 25-23 his first three seasons as the Patriots HC. Jason Garrett went 24-24 his first three full seasons as the Cowboys HC. Sean Payton: 25-23. Pete Carroll's first three seasons with the Seahawks: 25-23. Have some perspective about football history and try to understand that you can't just clean house and expect to find a championship GM, HC, OC, DC, and QB in an offseason. Championship winning teams are built through consistency in both vision and execution. It makes me sad that it seems like all these "Dolfans" want the team to fail so they can watch them try to rebuild the team all over again. <------- This is all correct.

 

[SkapePhin]

Skape didn't choose the teams, the OP did. Have a look-see...

How so many people not reading the full OP before commenting??


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[JTC111]

How so many people not reading the full OP before commenting??

The Passion of the Homer.

 

[russianbear]

Sean Payton: 10-6 first year coaching; made it to 2nd round of playoffs

Belichick: Won the Super Bowl in his 2nd year with Patriots. so you just decided to ignore his first 80 games when he was coaching the browns?

Carrol: Won playoff games in Year 1 and 3 with Seahawks. he went 7-9 and became the first team with that record to win their division, he went 7-9 his first 2 seasons.

Yup, completely comparable to Philbin.

What a complete failure of a thread...


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you're response is a complete failure man.

 

[SkapePhin]

you're response is a complete failure man.

What a complete failure of a response. Just like 80% of the people in this thread you failed to read the OP in its entirety before responding. The level of fail in this thread is reaching epidemic levels.

Also, I am tired of people using an outlier like Belichick to defend Philbin's moribund performance in 3 years as head coach. It's funny they don't ever compare him with the 99% of other coaches who started like Philbin and flamed out shortly thereafter.


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