Dolphins blew it with passing on Herbert

[Padrefinfan]

ToondaGoat, are you a chargers fan? I love and miss your city btw. I hate that they left. They use to be my second favorite team, but I HATE LA! If you are still a chargers fan (and I do not blame you) you have every right to be excited. They are damn close to turning that around! The chargers are exciting as F even when they lose, and that is hard to say! I just hope for the fans sake, they don't pull the plug on their coaches.

 

[ToondaGoat]

I still believe from what I have seen, it is the fact that they keep their backs in motion and in passing lanes. A back catching a 8 or 15 yard out or slant will pull safeties in! The chargers have gone to their backs 21 more times, 187 yards, and on better draw up routes this year. The re-locators have drawn up a playbook based on Taylor's safe good passing and does not lose a game skills. Plug in a kid with a cannon, a better runner, and who is intelligent, and VIOLA....numbers! They have drawn in all the hb and te routes. It makes his arm shine when the backfield is drawn in and all he has to do is drop a dime over the top. Look at tape and look at numbers. Granted, He still has to make the throws...but easier job is easier!

Yes but still have to make dimes like this, especially in tight coverage.. to undrafted free agents no one has heard of. Tyron Johnson. This is what pops.. make a 50 plus yd pass, tight coverage (to a linebacker none the less) bad seperation when a LB stays with you 59 yds down the field. The ball doesnt even leave the broadcast screen. You just dont see that much for deep passes.. they are usually high rain drops... not ropes. The effortless motion.. maybe tua and burrow wont ever be able to make throws like that... but they dont need to. Maybe this is the reason for the Herbert hype. He gives you 3 or 4 throws a game like that. But Tua made some exceptional short to intermediate throws in tight windows. Those are just as impressive. But fans wanna see those big game changers, it gives them cinfidence their qb can make any throw. Anyone giving up on Tua now is crazy. DOPLHINS will be a force to wreckon with for 10 years. You have the coaching, draft equity and cap space and in the midst of a playoff run.

 

[ToondaGoat]

ToondaGoat, are you a chargers fan? I love and miss your city btw. I hate that they left. They use to be my second favorite team, but I HATE LA! If you are still a chargers fan (and I do not blame you) you have every right to be excited. They are damn close to turning that around! The chargers are exciting as F even when they lose, and that is hard to say! I just hope for the fans sake, they don't pull the plug on their coaches.

I am a Chargers fan.. always had a soft spot for Miami though. Not just Dolphins but the U. Its tough being Chargers fans past 2 years, so we are super geeked with Herbo. Miss them in SD, but its a long distance relationship now. I like Lynn, hate Gus.... but seeing how good Flores is and how quickly he turned around a team experts argued as "worst team ever" last year... makes me coach envy and it might be time to pull the plug. We'll see tho.

 

[Padrefinfan]

Yes! Who wears number 46 on the jets? A LB named Neville Hewitt who played that well and is having a hell of a year. That is the genius of play calling! Perfect cover, call, and perfect throw.

 

[Padrefinfan]

@ToondaGoat You have every right to be excited about your team and QB. The Herb is dealing and that is very promising. He is proving that he is a QB that will actually go out and try to win games instead of not losing games like Taylor. Mad love for Taylor and not the DR who put him out. But your kid took the job and never gave it back! Makes drafting a bit easier. Hats off and cheers mate! Bright future and good luck!

 

[ToondaGoat]

@ToondaGoat You have every right to be excited about your team and QB. The Herb is dealing and that is very promising. He is proving that he is a QB that will actually go out and win games instead of not losing games like Taylor. Mad love for Taylor and not the DR who put him out. But your kid took the job and never gave it back! Makes drafting a bit easier. Hats off and cheers mate! Bright future and good luck!

Thanks you too. Here is to all 3 qbs from 2020 class being studs. Maybe Hurts and Love to. Class could produce 5 studs. Best of luck to you guys and your playoff run. Hopefully Herbert can win some of ya over and help you out with a win over Bills. Not holding my breath considering we gave up 26 to the Jets.

 

[Padrefinfan]

I am a Chargers fan.. always had a soft spot for Miami though. Not just Dolphins but the U. Its tough being Chargers fans past 2 years, so we are super geeked with Herbo. Miss them in SD, but its a long distance relationship now. I like Lynn, hate Gus.... but seeing how good Flores is and how quickly he turned around a team experts argued as "worst team ever" last year... makes me coach envy and it might be time to pull the plug. We'll see tho.

Tough being a chargers fan the last two years? Be a U and Miami fan the last couple decades and get back to me mate! LOL! Mad love though. Love your city and you are a good person/fan. Wish nothing but the best brother!

 

[RonniesRightArm]

Sometimes team success is bad for a rookie qb. Stat wise anyways. I feel like Tua is being coached to not lose instead of getting after it. Which imo is not what we need right now. In year two of a rebuild we need Tua to develop, which means throwing some INTs and losing some games. Herbert on the other hand is almost always playing from behind and has much better skill position players to throw to. These two will be compared their whole careers but anyone who has made their decision after four Tua starts is a moron that doesn’t know football or it’s history. Look at the 2012 and the 2018 qbs. After the first seasons the two best qbs were considered Luck and Mayfield. Now years later, everyone would re-draft R Wilson and J Allen. Just saying we won’t know about the 2020 boys for a few years.

 

[Mach2]

We're comparing apples and big wheels here... For one thing, Tua just played his 4th game after almost a full year without playing a meaningful snap coming back from a serious injury. Veteran NFL QBs are rusted after time off like that so I wouldnt expect a rookie to look like nothing happened, especially with no pre-season.

Then you've got Herbert who plays in an environement where they need to score alot of points to win games, compared to the Fins who shut down as soon as they get a lead. In other words the Fins are asking Tua to win games conservatively while the Chargers are telling Herbert to have fun and chuck it. Not litterally, of course but you get the picture. Tua is being asked to get the team to the playoffs, Herbert has been out of that picture for awhile now. Dont believe me? Tua just got benched for falling back 10 points behind on the road. That's pressure.

Is your point that Tua isn't mentally tough enough to take the pressure?

I certainly wouldn't make that leap yet.

Just kidding. I agree with most everything.

Anyway, you are an analytics guy. Did you convert to philosophy now? Or only until your position can be backed by stats? Kidding again.

I do find it amusing, that is exactly the type of conjecture/feelz post that I have seen you beat ppl over the head with numbers for.

Just an observation. Not a criticism. There is room for both in the human mind.

 

[MARINO1317]

I know its early to access them but... you can do an eye test.

Herbert is a tall athletic strong armed playmaker. He looks like he belongs and can be a great QB than can win games and not just manage them.

Tua is a soft arm, small, non athletic accurate passer that was surrounded with talent at Alabama. He is a game manager/scheme QB at best.

As far as relievers not getting open, its half Tuas fault. He throws a softer ball which takes longer to get to the receiver. This results in DBs getting to the ball and everything is going to be contested.

I'm welcome to criticism, but please back it up with facts and not emotions.

Agree 100%

 

[mrbunglez]

Crazy, a brunt of these Tua haters just joined in the past week just to chime in on how bad they think he is.

 

[Mach2]

Crazy, a brunt of these Tua haters just joined in the past week just to chime in on how bad they think he is.

That does seem to be the case.

There are also many regulars that are getting tagged as "haters" when, in reality, they are just pointing out some valid questions.

 

[Kamelion4291]

Again, you sound ridiculous. Yes, I watched him multiple times. Was he perfect, no but he had an the tools to be great. I believe the system he was in was not perfect for him either. He's clearly getting better coaching and taking advantage of it.

As for bias, now the history teacher in me comes out. I simply made a claim based on your argument and provided you with evidence to back it up. Your claimed he's doing nothing but throwing screen passes. I gave you his numbers. Clearly not the case. You said he's causing his team to lose games, I showed you he's clearly not doing that. But Tua has 3 wins...I showed you why. Then when you brought college into it and how one couldn't handle pressure, I gave you a concrete example of the other coming out of a championship game with a "rolled ankle." I also stated another claim that Tua's ability to handle pressure in college is largely on question. I then told you one does not have a fake hip and holes in his ankle from holding the ball too long. These are facts. You did respond with facts of your own. Herbert did break good collar bone.

This is not a bias, I'm simply stating a claim that Herbert is a better quarterback at this point than Tua is. Stop using the lame college argument because college is over and look who's clearly been better. Also read where I said maybe not in the future but right now.

Your history teacher came out, but it should have been an English teacher for better reading comprehension. I said against US he was throwing nothing but screen passes.

But it's fine. You can be like Bills fans who believed Allen jumped 10% completion percentage because he's just so great instead of the team trading for Diggs, same way when guys like Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, and Hunter Henry aren't affecting Herbert's ability to actually play QB instead of throwing it to the open man on his limited reads. When they were covered by us, his stats fell off a cliff so he got a taste of what it's like for Tua every single game where nobody is open.

Maybe next time your math teacher comes out so I don't have to hear about how listing box score numbers count as facts of anything.

 

[gerblack]

Herbert is beating Tua in every measurable category with the exception of INTs (though Herbert's 22:6 TD:INT ratio is pretty damn impressive over 9 games).

Herbert is beating Tua in Yards per game, yards per attempt, completion percent, TDs per game, sacks per game, Rating, QBR, rushing yards per game, rushing yards per attempt, rushing TDs per game.

He also had a head start as Tua was coming off an injury and hasn't had an offseason to workout just rehab. Let's talk next year when they are on a more even playing field.

 

[Kamelion4291]

Man you don't watch Chargers games at all.

Herbert is why they were up 11 vs KC in the 4th. Defense then plays prevent and offense plays conservative. KC needs 2 58 yd kicks to win in OT.

Vs Panthers, with 1:35 left from within own 5 yd line, 0 timeouts he drove them all the way down to Panthers 19th yd line and was a dropped pitch and ladder from Ekler from a walk off td.

Vs Bucs lit up one of the best defenses only to have his defense give up 5 tds to Brady and his rookie rb fumble on Chargers own 5 yd line setting uo quick td for TB before half.

Vs NO lit up another good defense and drove team to win game only to have kicker miss game winner.

Williams lets pass go right through his hands in the endzone for the 4th Herbert td vs same defense that destroyed tua. Williams catches that and its game over. Chargers d also folded against 1 of the worst qbs in lock.

Vs Raiders Williams and Parham in back to back sequences drop game winning tds.

Only game you can even come close to saying Herbert came up short was vs Miami. But again, Williams slips on his route, Howard cuts it outside and gets int. But alot of that game was coaches being unprepared and shook of Miami's amoeba cover 0 defense that was throwing some of the most exotic stunts, disguises and blitzes anyone has seen in past 10 years.

Tua will be fine, he needed a bad game, he needs another one or 2.. to get that taste in his mouth that he didnt get in college. So that he sees NFL isnt easy and doesn't take it for granted. But these weak Herbert takes arent it. It's clear you don't watch Chargers games. Only vs Mia and think thats how he has looked all year.

Even his bad game was nearly 200 yds and 3 total tds.

Newsflash: When you're up by 17+ points, the only way the other team can come back is if your offense stops scoring. I don't need to hear about the unfortunate events that happened at the very end of the game to lose. I'm talking about the large amount of plays before that which never happened because Herbert is a front runner, same as in college.

I'm not saying that's him forever, but it's a legitimate flaw that people pretend doesn't exist and it's annoying.