Dolphins confident they can find TWO starting guards

[RichmondWeb]

Personally, I would be looking to sign two of the 2nd tier G/(C) for solid but not splash contracts. Leary, Lang, Norwell, Warford, Tretter, and Wisniewski are all tempting. I find out which is the best fit and see which 2 can be signed for a fair price. Wouldn't it be cool to land Packers' teammates Lang and Tretter? Two 5-7M guards would seem to fit well in our cap picture.

Then I would look for a 2nd/3rd round C/(G) for future development, depth, and to push/replace Pouncey whose problems and salary are starting to snowball out of control.

But I'll let someone else pay Zeitler 10M+. We need value not splash.

RW

 

[hoops]

Finally getting to look at some og draft prospects

First one ive done is forrest lamp...was hoping to see a top 20 grade player...i dont...he doesnt have zach martins feet or technique...not as clean a technician short area lateral quickness looks ok not special...this is more logan mankins type than zach martin...technique is hit and miss

More late round 1 value would not give that a top 20 grade may be pushed up due to the limited class options

Was hoping for a more clean looking athlete...more grinder than technician right now

Zach martin on college tape killed you with his feet and his technique...looked effortless...nothing about forrest lamp looks effortless

 

[hoops]

I like dorian johnson of pitt...like the athlete like the the feet like the short area lateral quickness...looks like he anchors well like the fit for the scheme as a left guard...id probably have a top 50 grade on that if he didnt chop and pitter patter his feet so much as a pull trap and space blocker...while hes pattering his feet the man hes responsible for is coming into the backfield

Could have a little more pop on contact in space and pulling or trapping but it looks correctable...like the athlete like the size like the talent

Shouldnt get out of day 2 i will say top 75 grade...50 to 75

 

[hoops]

Ahh the pitter patter is cleaned up on johnsons 2016 tape...someones coached him up or maybe hes more assignment sure or both...i like this player very much

I think hes a starting guard in the nfl out the gate even...2016 that looks like a top 50 grade

 

[hoops]

Heres what im looking for...pivot and guard versatility pat elflein

Pick 54 target

Top 50 grade

 

[Snoop]

What about Asiata from Utah

 

[hoops]

Only things i wonder about with elflein is whats his best position at the next level? Pivot or guard and is he maxed out as a player...i also dont see great feet or athlete for space play on the pivot but it looks good enough

As a pure guard i like dorian johnson more but to miami assuming they think elflein can start at guard and likely right guard it would seem hed have more value given the versatility and pouncey insurance

But is he gonna get to a ton of stuff in space especially from the pivot? Ehh

 

[hoops]

What about Asiata from Utah

Pretty good feet looks and plays very top heavy...off balance a lot as a result...reminds me of richie incognito but with better feet and less ability to stay on his feet

 

[hoops]

Dan feeneys a scheme fit...good athlete good feet...does a lot of it with his positioning...angles type of blocker...not a lead in the pants pile mover

Probably not what miami wants in terms of thump though...grinds but doesnt really move anyone pulling or straight ahead...

Kinda soft on contact

 

[TheWalrus]

I mentioned it in another thread, but Berry's record-breaking contract is still less than what the Giants spent on Olivier Vernon. Is there anyone who would prefer Vernon to Berry? And if yes, do they watch football?

Does a good pass rusher impact the game more than a near-great safety? It's an open question. You look at the top 5 average contracts by position and it tells you that the teams would rather have the pass rusher.

I'm not so sure I agree, especially in the modern NFL. There's also the line of thought that a great player gives you unique flexibility. But still, I think the received wisdom here based on what the teams are willing to spend is undeniable.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

Does a good pass rusher impact the game more than a near-great safety? It's an open question. You look at the top 5 average contracts by position and it tells you that the teams would rather have the pass rusher.

I'm not so sure I agree, especially in the modern NFL. There's also the line of thought that a great player gives you unique flexibility. But still, I think the received wisdom here based on what the teams are willing to spend is undeniable.

OV is a good player and I am sorry that we couldn't retain him at a reasonable price, but I don't think there's any question that the Giants went full ****** on that contract.

 

[claytonduper]

Not sure Miami's defense can afford a guard with the first 2 picks. I still believe our first 2 picks should be DE and LB in either order. Is there a solid Guard in late round 3? I think we should use our three 5th round drafts for the following: Nickel CB, speed receiver (to replace Stills) and either a safety or Guard for development. Still too many holes and not even picks.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

Does a good pass rusher impact the game more than a near-great safety? It's an open question. You look at the top 5 average contracts by position and it tells you that the teams would rather have the pass rusher.

I'm not so sure I agree, especially in the modern NFL. There's also the line of thought that a great player gives you unique flexibility. But still, I think the received wisdom here based on what the teams are willing to spend is undeniable.

I agree. As usual, well put. I realize that I did not mention the point I meant to make in my original post. FS is probably the most undervalued position in the NFL. Relative to DE's, DT's, and CB's with similar (or even less) impact, Berry's record-breaking contract is a steal. Ed Reed was worth Revis money. Never got it. Earl Thomas is as valuable as any defensive player in the league. His recent injuries hurt his value some, but his big contract amounts to peanuts (not irl $ - it's a lot in that). I don't know why the NFL values WR's, even, more than FS's. It's not like there is a surplus of high-quality FS's, and it's not like a FS with high-end range doesn't change the face of your entire defense. Maybe the value is artificially low, because teams have signed top FS's before they hit the market. Maybe Berry could have grabbed a 100+M contract.

I look at it this way. You can find an Olivier Vernon in every single draft. Maybe you have to reach for a 2nd RD player (Vernon was a 3rd, of course) in the 1st, but you have an opportunity to draft a pass rusher at least as good as Vernon every year. You can't say that you can draft a Safety as good as Eric Berry every year.

 

[Digital]

This is a good draft. There will be better prospects in round 3 of this draft than most recent drafts round 3 prospects. I like Feeney, Elfein, Asiata, Siragusa and a few others too. If we do go guard somewhere in the middle rounds, I think we can probably find someone. But if we draft one in the 3rd round like we seem to do often ... I think we will have the opportunity to pick a better player than we've selected there recently.

I'd also seriously consider trading down from 22, depending upon the offer, when it is offered (on the clock we'd take offers we might not consider now depending upon what the draft actually looks like then). Ideally, we can trade up from 54, and if that means dropping from 22 to the early 2nd to get value to use to get back up into the top 40 (from 54), I would seriously consider doing that. IMHO, it's looking like we may need to be in the top 40 to get guys that are both great players and fill big needs.

 

[TheWalrus]

I agree. As usual, well put. I realize that I did not mention the point I meant to make in my original post. FS is probably the most undervalued position in the NFL. Relative to DE's, DT's, and CB's with similar (or even less) impact, Berry's record-breaking contract is a steal. Ed Reed was worth Revis money. Never got it. Earl Thomas is as valuable as any defensive player in the league. His recent injuries hurt his value some, but his big contract amounts to peanuts (not irl $ - it's a lot in that). I don't know why the NFL values WR's, even, more than FS's. It's not like there is a surplus of high-quality FS's, and it's not like a FS with high-end range doesn't change the face of your entire defense. Maybe the value is artificially low, because teams have signed top FS's before they hit the market. Maybe Berry could have grabbed a 100+M contract.

I look at it this way. You can find an Olivier Vernon in every single draft. Maybe you have to reach for a 2nd RD player (Vernon was a 3rd, of course) in the 1st, but you have an opportunity to draft a pass rusher at least as good as Vernon every year. You can't say that you can draft a Safety as good as Eric Berry every year.

Earl Thomas is incredibly valuable because he's a great player being put to his fullest possible use. But I remember when he came out people didn't know whether he was a corner, a slot corner, or a free safety. If he had become a slot corner he wouldn't be worth a third what he is now.

Which isn't to minimize his value. But I do think -- generally speaking -- the further a player gets away from the LOS the greater they tend to be subject to the relative stupidity of their coaching staff. It's hard to **** up a great guard or a great DT (other than to make someone like Suh 2 gap). It's why I think people call these positions "safe", even though draft after draft proves that these positions bust as often as any other. It's that these are straight evaluations and less subject to whether coaches can coach or the schemes match up to the player on top of all the other variables of the draft process.

WRs and QBs -- and therefore LBs and Ss and CBs -- play away from the LOS, so their relative successes are more about coaching than whether a pass rusher actually has the ankle flexion to run the arc against NFL tackles. We saw this with previous defensive coaches who wanted Reshad Jones to play the deep middle, for example. Reshad Jones is a very effective player within a specifically defined role. But give him the wrong assignment and he looks like just a guy.

Assuming you have a coaching staff that you're confident can walk and chew gum at the same time (after all, if you don't, nothing else matters), then I agree that the focus should be more on acquiring great players than on the specific position they play. Good coaches can adapt their schemes to great players easier than schemes can take mediocre players in other schemes and make them great (assuming your coaching staff is not at Don Shula/Bill Belichick levels).

That being said, though, some positions "matter" more than other regardless of scheme.

There's really no right answer.