Dolphins Free Agency Grade

[Feverdream]

So who besides those players listed are we talking about exactly? You have a decade to choose from. You picked the only hits. Good for him for getting better but talk me through that incorrect narrative.

We can throw the FA in there as well. It's like people forget the fins were putting up all time worst oline numbers until very recently.

What am I missing here? I'm asking honestly.

Since the year he took over...

Which linemen, that he drafted... failed?

 

[BobDole]

Since the year he took over...

Which linemen, that he drafted... failed?

Eich ... year before kindley ... dieter before that ... douglas ... James and turner (for us) before that ... I really wanted my boy Dallas in there but may have gone too far.

I honestly thought it was worse and apologize but stand by you named the only hits.

 

[MrClean]

It depends a little on parameters. For example;
Is it a good FA in view of cap restrictions?
Is it good regardless of cap? Compare us to teams with tremendous money available?
Do we subtract guys we lost or just look at guys we signed?
I was fine with X leaving but sorry to see AVG go.
I knew we could not afford Wilkins but was sorry to see us lose Hunt.

Hunt got one of the most insane contracts in the history of free agency. No one could have predicted that.

 

[MrClean]

I think there is a real tendency among us to just continue stating whatever narrative that we've heard repeated... things like Grier just can't draft offensive linemen.

I mean, objectively, this just isn't true. He's had more hits than misses there, but people keep saying it, even though the success of Hunt and Jackson show that it isn't true.

Hell... Eichenberg wasn't awful, even though many just keep saying it. He's been mediocre... given us quite a few snaps ahead of typical FA types. Heck, he might improve just like Jackson did... and remember, one of the old narratives was that, "Jackson will never be any good".

I was on Jackson's arse last off-season to the extreme. I learned my lesson. If you are reading here Austin, I apologize. There is just as much chance that the stars align for Eich in his 4th season and he finds his footing as a solid starter, at probably RG. As a rookie, he got moved around it seemed almost weekly early in the season. He finally was kept at LT as things unfolded but is too short-armed and lacks the lateral quickness to offset it. In his second season, they decided to leave him at LG alone. Just as he was starting to look like an asset, he got hurt in the Detroit game. As I recall, sort of by friendly fire. Connor was blocking Benito Jones who went as high in the air as his stubby legs would allow in an attempt to deflect the pass and as he was coming down, Connor tossed him to the side and he landed across the back of Eich's leg.
While he was out, Rob Jones actually looked better than Eich had been. Once Eich came back he struggled and they probably should have kept Jones at LG. Then we all saw last season, fresh in our memories. back to being moved between all three interior positions, and he is much better at either OG than he is at C. If I were a betting man, I'd bet right now that the RG job is a competition between Eich and Jones. Barring injuries, one will be the starter there.

The idea of cutting Eich to pay for all the rookie contracts that I read elsewhere a short while ago is one of the funniest things I've read in a long time.

 

[Feverdream]

Eich ... year before kindley ... dieter before that ... douglas ... James and turner (for us) before that ... I really wanted my boy Dallas in there but may have gone too far.

I honestly thought it was worse and apologize but stand by you named the only hits.

Nope... in 2016, his first Offensive Lineman selected was Tunsil.

Here's the list since he took over in 2016:

1) Tunsil- obvious star player
5) Asiata- never made it
3) Dieter- still in league, started 10 games for Houston last year
6) Prince-- still in league, Atlanta
1) Jackson-- Starter. Just resigned.
2) Hunt-- 100 million dollar contract
4) Kindley-- never made it
2) Eichenberg-- low level starter/ competent back up
7) Coleman-- PS player
7) Hayes-- PS

Asiata, as a 5th, and Kindley, as a 4th were the two biggest flops, but both were third day picks.

Overall... Grier has done better than many or even most GMs in drafting linemen. In general, those screaming about Grier point to third day picks and try to suggest that picks in that range were more than long shots to begin with.

Just because Deiter did not become a star, does not imply that he's been a bust. Heck, as a 3rd rounder, the fact that he's starting anywhere ain't bad.

Grier's worst pick... was probably Kindley, who was only suited to a 60s style blocking scheme.

 

[MrClean]

Eich ... year before kindley ... dieter before that ... douglas ... James and turner (for us) before that ... I really wanted my boy Dallas in there but may have gone too far.

I honestly thought it was worse and apologize but stand by you named the only hits.

Douglas, James, and Turner were drafted before Grier became the GM. Dennis Hickey drafted them. Dallas Thomas was a Jeff Ireland snafu, with David Bakhtiari still on the board and me yelling at my TV when Ireland turned in the wrong name.
I liked Jamil Douglas in college very much. I was happy when Hickey picked him. But the coaches screwed him up. If they'd have just put him at LG and left him there I think he may have developed. But making him a center in training camp, a position he'd never played was stupid to the extreme and Philbin should have been kicked in the nads for such idiocy.

 

[Feverdream]

I was on Jackson's arse last off-season to the extreme. I learned my lesson. If you are reading here Austin, I apologize. There is just as much chance that the stars align for Eich in his 4th season and he finds his footing as a solid starter, at probably RG. As a rookie, he got moved around it seemed almost weekly early in the season. He finally was kept at LT as things unfolded but is too short-armed and lacks the lateral quickness to offset it. In his second season, they decided to leave him at LG alone. Just as he was starting to look like an asset, he got hurt in the Detroit game. As I recall, sort of by friendly fire. Connor was blocking Benito Jones who went as high in the air as his stubby legs would allow in an attempt to deflect the pass and as he was coming down, Connor tossed him to the side and he landed across the back of Eich's leg.
While he was out, Rob Jones actually looked better than Eich had been. Once Eich came back he struggled and they probably should have kept Jones at LG. Then we all saw last season, fresh in our memories. back to being moved between all three interior positions, and he is much better at either OG than he is at C. If I were a betting man, I'd bet right now that the RG job is a competition between Eich and Jones. Barring injuries, one will be the starter there.

The idea of cutting Eich to pay for all the rookie contracts that I read elsewhere a short while ago is one of the funniest things I've read in a long time.

The 'everybody says' type narratives just kill me.

Ideas get stuck in people's heads and they just regurgitate them as 'common wisdom'. The idolatry of Jakeem Grant always blew my mind... or that Grier has had more draft busts than average... or that 'if they don't bite as a puppy, they never will'

There are too many who believe these widely held beliefs... "why Cletus, evrabody knows that the Earth is flat and that the climate nev'r changes."

I think these clap-trap ideas just make them happy... ya know?

 

[MrClean]

Nope... in 2016, his first Offensive Lineman selected was Tunsil.

Here's the list since he took over in 2016:

1) Tunsil- obvious star player
5) Asiata- never made it
3) Dieter- still in league, started 10 games for Houston last year
6) Prince-- still in league, Atlanta
1) Jackson-- Starter. Just resigned.
2) Hunt-- 100 million dollar contract
4) Kindley-- never made it
2) Eichenberg-- low level starter/ competent back up
7) Coleman-- PS player
7) Hayes-- PS

Asiata, as a 5th, and Kindley, as a 4th were the two biggest flops, but both were third day picks.

Overall... Grier has done better than many or even most GMs in drafting linemen. In general, those screaming about Grier point to third day picks and try to suggest that picks in that range were more than long shots to begin with.

Just because Deiter did not become a star, does not imply that he's been a bust. Heck, as a 3rd rounder, the fact that he's starting anywhere ain't bad.

Grier's worst pick... was probably Kindley, who was only suited to a 60s style blocking scheme.

The thing with Kindley that got me riled was Grier could have used the pick on Hunt's college teammate. They played side by side at Louisiana and could have done the same in Miami. That of course would have meant Jackson staying on the left side and Hunt playing RT. One of my friends here is a Steelers fan and he was complaining to me the other day how the Steelers did not just plug in Dotson at RG, his college position, and tried moving him to the left side, where he said, Dotson did not develop. After the trade to the Rams, they moved him to RG and he played well enough to earn his big new contract.

 

[MrClean]

The 'everybody says' type narratives just kill me.

Ideas get stuck in people's heads and they just regurgitate them as 'common wisdom'. The idolatry of Jakeem Grant always blew my mind... or that Grier has had more draft busts than average... or that 'if they don't bite as a puppy, they never will'

There are too many who believe these widely held beliefs... "why Cletus, evrabody knows that the Earth is flat and that the climate nev'r changes."

I think these clap-trap ideas just make them happy... ya know?

Regarding Jackson, no one put a narrative in my head. I accept total blame for creating my anti-Ajax narrative based on my own observations. He was pretty bad at LG in 2021, missed all but parts of two games in 2022, and I just considered him too unreliable and a likely lost cause. Right now today, I am more optimistic about Eich in 2024, than I was a year ago today about Ajax in 2023.

 

[Feverdream]

Regarding Jackson, no one put a narrative in my head. I accept total blame for creating my anti-Ajax narrative based on my own observations. He was pretty bad at LG in 2021, missed all but parts of two games in 2022, and I just considered him too unreliable and a likely lost cause. Right now today, I am more optimistic about Eich in 2024, than I was a year ago today about Ajax in 2023.

I think Eich could be a better than average Guard in the NFL.
I don't think his ceiling is higher than that, but if he does succeed this year, we'll probably let him walk.
I don't think he was a bad bet at all, even though I generally prefer the boom/bust candidates to the he's pretty solid, but no star candidates.

...or he could get hurt and bust.

**** happens in the NFL.

 

[Jssanto]

Nope... in 2016, his first Offensive Lineman selected was Tunsil.

Here's the list since he took over in 2016:

1) Tunsil- obvious star player
5) Asiata- never made it
3) Dieter- still in league, started 10 games for Houston last year
6) Prince-- still in league, Atlanta
1) Jackson-- Starter. Just resigned.
2) Hunt-- 100 million dollar contract
4) Kindley-- never made it
2) Eichenberg-- low level starter/ competent back up
7) Coleman-- PS player
7) Hayes-- PS

Asiata, as a 5th, and Kindley, as a 4th were the two biggest flops, but both were third day picks.

Overall... Grier has done better than many or even most GMs in drafting linemen. In general, those screaming about Grier point to third day picks and try to suggest that picks in that range were more than long shots to begin with.

Just because Deiter did not become a star, does not imply that he's been a bust. Heck, as a 3rd rounder, the fact that he's starting anywhere ain't bad.

Grier's worst pick... was probably Kindley, who was only suited to a 60s style blocking scheme.

Was Jonathan Martin in there?
And this was just linemen?
Iggy was a decent sized bust. The jury is still out on Cam Smith. Ezukama is barely hanging on. Tindall on the outside looking in.
If Grier is sort of a league average guy it shows how difficult the draft is to get right.

 

[NY8123]

I can't vote yet, incomplete grade. I need to see how the draft plays out and what needs are filled with it.

So far Free agency is better than I expected in terms of filling needs due to departures. I'd have like to retain VanGink.

 

[Jamesw]

I think Eich could be a better than average Guard in the NFL.
I don't think his ceiling is higher than that, but if he does succeed this year, we'll probably let him walk.
I don't think he was a bad bet at all, even though I generally prefer the boom/bust candidates to the he's pretty solid, but no star candidates.

...or he could get hurt and bust.

**** happens in the NFL.

I think Eich is exactly what you describe, but I also think us moving constantly moving him didn’t help.his development at all. I also think he deserves respect from some of the lemmings on the site.

 

[Mello Yello]

I don't think Chris Grier's ~50% hit rate on OL prospects is necessarily bad. I just think we don't have an OL that's worth very much and that's ultimately his doing.

Like, yeah, he drafted Laremy Tunsil and that's a "hit" (if you consider a player falling into your lap such a thing) but Tunsil plays for the Texans now. We purposefully traded him away for picks and spent a large amount of money bringing in Terron Armstead to replace him who in turn cost us a lot of money while missing a lot of time.



As I've said over and over about Chris Grier, you cannot lazily judge his moves in a vacuum. You have to judge the end product and then evaluate the combination of things which led to where we are. A GM can make a series of what are theoretically "good" moves that still don't align with each other.

I just think having a shoddy OL filled with developing players who need to get better and aging vets who struggle with injury hurts the team when the QB is known to be small and not super mobile. The team badly needs to be more physical and run the ball to form a better identity and yet we have an OL that struggles to run when it counts.

We hired a young HC with run-game-coordinator background who's brought in good OL coaches and we've spent a lot of time asking him to work with middling talent. Fix Austin Jackson please. Work some magic with Liam Eichenberg. Make Robert Jones look alright. Deal with a permanently-injured LT who's not there half the time. Replace multiple pieces every year.


OL should've been a key priority for this team when it decided to build around Tua--probably more than WR if we're being totally honest. I will always wonder what this team could've been had it retained the R1 and R2 picks it lost in the Hill trade along with the R1 pick taken for Ross' tampering.

And again, you probably don't feel the pressure to go after Tyreek Hill if you're not stuck with crappy weapons like Devante Parker (R1), Leonte Carroo (R3), Jakeem Grant (R5), Isaiah Ford (R7), Durham Smythe (R4), Hunter Long (R3), Preston Williams, Mack Hollins, Lynn Bowden, Adam Shaheen and Allen Hurns.


You can't isolate one part of the team. You must see the whole picture.


I probably speak for everyone when I say that I don't love the idea of being an offense reliant on Tyreek Hill. If he's the only reason we're good, then I don't think we're legit. You need to spend the early years evaluating who your QB really is. If he doesn't elevate the franchise then he's replaceable and not worth $50M/yr.

So now you see how all this stuff is hard and getting it wrong in one area leads to issues developing in another.

If we end up neglecting the OL because we pursued Hill largely because we sucked at the position and the Hill acquisition leads to us re-signing Tua all so we can ultimately come back to rebuilding the OL only too realize Hill is getting to old and Tua can't carry the team...what's it all for?



I keep saying this but the job of a GM is to create value. If you create holes that require compensations you're going to end up crashing the plane even though you appear to have a decent roster.

It is really hard to get it right in the NFL. The overwhelmingly majority fail for the reasons above. Stuff goes wrong. The bar needs to be exceedingly high and you need to be honest. You can't simultaneously be a fan and have a grounded opinion. It's one or the other.

Fans will tell you all the wrong things because they're optimistic about everything, all the time. That's why even in a year where we lost talent and signed a slew of small-time names you get the majority of people saying we did well. When was the last time a fan said we didn't win the off-season?



I want the team to win but it has to start getting in front of all the issues it has. You cannot be losing players and plugging in 1- and 2-yr stop-gaps every season. You can't draft good players like Tunsil, Wilkins, Van Ginkel, etc. and then just let them go to other teams. You can't mortgage your future on Tyreek Hill just to prop up your lousy offense that sucks because you filled it with crap prior.

We have been a paper tiger because our core has never solidified. We allow holes to develop and we patch them. That's what we do.

Honesty is the only way forward.

 

[WestLondonDolphin]

I don't think Chris Grier's ~50% hit rate on OL prospects is necessarily bad. I just think we don't have an OL that's worth very much and that's ultimately his doing.

Like, yeah, he drafted Laremy Tunsil and that's a "hit" (if you consider a player falling into your lap such a thing) but Tunsil plays for the Texans now. We purposefully traded him away for picks and spent a large amount of money bringing in Terron Armstead to replace him who in turn cost us a lot of money while missing a lot of time.



As I've said over and over about Chris Grier, you cannot lazily judge his moves in a vacuum. You have to judge the end product and then evaluate the combination of things which led to where we are. A GM can make a series of what are theoretically "good" moves that still don't align with each other.

I just think having a shoddy OL filled with developing players who need to get better and aging vets who struggle with injury hurts the team when the QB is known to be small and not super mobile. The team badly needs to be more physical and run the ball to form a better identity and yet we have an OL that struggles to run when it counts.

We hired a young HC with run-game-coordinator background who's brought in good OL coaches and we've spent a lot of time asking him to work with middling talent. Fix Austin Jackson please. Work some magic with Liam Eichenberg. Make Robert Jones look alright. Deal with a permanently-injured LT who's not there half the time. Replace multiple pieces every year.


OL should've been a key priority for this team when it decided to build around Tua--probably more than WR if we're being totally honest. I will always wonder what this team could've been had it retained the R1 and R2 picks it lost in the Hill trade along with the R1 pick taken for Ross' tampering.

And again, you probably don't feel the pressure to go after Tyreek Hill if you're not stuck with crappy weapons like Devante Parker (R1), Leonte Carroo (R3), Jakeem Grant (R5), Isaiah Ford (R7), Durham Smythe (R4), Hunter Long (R3), Preston Williams, Mack Hollins, Lynn Bowden, Adam Shaheen and Allen Hurns.


You can't isolate one part of the team. You must see the whole picture.


I probably speak for everyone when I say that I don't love the idea of being an offense reliant on Tyreek Hill. If he's the only reason we're good, then I don't think we're legit. You need to spend the early years evaluating who your QB really is. If he doesn't elevate the franchise then he's replaceable and not worth $50M/yr.

So now you see how all this stuff is hard and getting it wrong in one area leads to issues developing in another.

If we end up neglecting the OL because we pursued Hill largely because we sucked at the position and the Hill acquisition leads to us re-signing Tua all so we can ultimately come back to rebuilding the OL only too realize Hill is getting to old and Tua can't carry the team...what's it all for?



I keep saying this but the job of a GM is to create value. If you create holes that require compensations you're going to end up crashing the plane even though you appear to have a decent roster.

It is really hard to get it right in the NFL. The overwhelmingly majority fail for the reasons above. Stuff goes wrong. The bar needs to be exceedingly high and you need to be honest. You can't simultaneously be a fan and have a grounded opinion. It's one or the other.

Fans will tell you all the wrong things because they're optimistic about everything, all the time. That's why even in a year where we lost talent and signed a slew of small-time names you get the majority of people saying we did well. When was the last time a fan said we didn't win the off-season?



I want the team to win but it has to start getting in front of all the issues it has. You cannot be losing players and plugging in 1- and 2-yr stop-gaps every season. You can't draft good players like Tunsil, Wilkins, Van Ginkel, etc. and then just let them go to other teams. You can't mortgage your future on Tyreek Hill just to prop up your lousy offense that sucks because you filled it with crap prior.

We have been a paper tiger because our core has never solidified. We allow holes to develop and we patch them. That's what we do.

A lot of interesting stuff here

But ultimately, no … it’s brilliant having Tyreek Hill on the team.

Saying the offense is entirely reliant on him is also overstated given the contributions of Waddle (who you seem to have left off your list of draft failures), Mostert, Achane and Tua himself.

Prior to the injuries that took out our center and starting guards last year the O line was also looking pretty good.

Not matching Hunt’s contract demands was the right move … and I think we’ll get Lamm, Wynn and maybe even Connor Williams back.

Adding the new center from the Titans and hopefully an early round pick gives us a nice combination of continuity and new talent.

May I ask which organisations you believe have done the best job of team building over the past 5 years?