Dolphins hiring Joe Barry

[Mach2]

Your level of error in this post exceeded even my expectations. - LOL

1) I have faith the FO will always do a better job than you in picking players in the draft, so you are RONG - again.
2) A lot of our "quality" players have been mid round and even UDFA's, so you are RONG again.
3) Trading down will give us an increased number of drafted players, which is a good thing - if the FO choses to do it, so you are RONG, again.
4) "Let Cam Smith have a "Real" opportunity to fail." - Unreal in the absurdity of your bias.
5) "...while you rag on folks who feel Tua has merit." - I'm a big Tua supporter, so you are RONG, again.

Final score: Four RONGS and one absurdity That may be a record for doubling down. It defies belief until a guy like you shows it so clearly. - LOL

Where is my little ignore button? - LOL

Ray, I usually just dismiss your sometimes incoherent ramblings and insults of other posters as being......well, someone who desires interaction with other humans without actually going out into the world. In this case I will address your points.

1) You may have "faith", but there is little evidence to support that faith as being rational. It isn't a matter of Grier being better than some random poster. It is a matter of him doing better than he has historically demonstrated.

2 and 3) Yes, there are examples of rd3 picks being good players, but from an "odds" perspective, history is against it. Only a small percentage become long term, quality starters. You are again going against historical facts.

4) I don't see any bias here, other than an anti Fangio one, and from what I've read and heard from players, Smith should have been on the field, if not for VFs personality or personal dislike.

5) Yeah, you are correct here. Have no idea where he got the impression you are "anti Tua". I thought it an odd comment at the time.

In closing, if you would take off those aqua and orange glasses for a moment, you would see that there are very likely issues and hurdles that cannot, and will not, be overcome in one single offseason given our limited picks and non optimal cap situation.

Or, leave those glasses on if you wish. That's fine too. Many others take that approach and remain blissful.

The thing is, someone disagreeing does not make them "dumb", or you right. Hell, you still think Gase was a good HC. You often attack posters in this way. Not sure why you find it necessary, as you have demonstrated an intellect that can easily function above such remarks.

 

[eMCee85]

Ray, I usually just dismiss your sometimes incoherent ramblings and insults of other posters as being......well, someone who desires interaction with other humans without actually going out into the world. In this case I will address your points.

1) You may have "faith", but there is little evidence to support that faith as being rational. It isn't a matter of Grier being better than some random poster. It is a matter of him doing better than he has historically demonstrated.

2 and 3) Yes, there are examples of rd3 picks being good players, but from an "odds" perspective, history is against it. Only a small percentage become long term, quality starters. You are again going against historical facts.

4) I don't see any bias here, other than an anti Fangio one, and from what I've read and heard from players, Smith should have been on the field, if not for VFs personality or personal dislike.

5) Yeah, you are correct here. Have no idea where he got the impression you are "anti Tua". I thought it an odd comment at the time.

In closing, if you would take off those aqua and orange glasses for a moment, you would see that there are very likely issues and hurdles that cannot, and will not, be overcome in one single offseason given our limited picks and non optimal cap situation.

Or, leave those glasses on if you wish. That's fine too. Many others take that approach and remain blissful.

The thing is, someone disagreeing does not make them "dumb", or you right. Hell, you still think Gase was a good HC. You often attack posters in this way. Not sure why you find it necessary, as you have demonstrated an intellect that can easily function above such remarks.

Rays shtick is very annoying. Especially since he's a fly by night fan. Sometimes it's hard for me to hold back on him too but I've went at him a few times. But he's still going to continue his annoying post style so it is what it is I guess.

 

[Fred Bear]

The part about the front office doing a better job than some of the fans seems debatable at times lol

 

[Mach2]

The part about the front office doing a better job than some of the fans seems debatable at times lol

The thing is, debating it is one thing. Asserting there is no debate, and that one's personal view is inerrant and fact is another.

Most posters do so with an understanding that things not based on the quantifiable, such as statistical facts, are opinion.

Some do not recognize this.

 

[dolphinheel]

Once they return from their Injuries, he will have Chubb and Phillips. He also has Long and possibly Baker if they don’t decide to cut him for cap savings.

While this starting group might not be in the LT and Banks class. When the Dolphin LB’s are healthy, they are actually one of the better group of LB’s in the NFL.

AVG

 

[ScottySpades]

so we lose the two Italian coaches we had.....I'm not happy about that

Italians don't play football...they play soccer. We need American coaches

 

[Mach2]

Italians don't play football...they play soccer. We need American coaches

Vince Lombardi would like a word. Meet him behind the woodshed........

 

[ScottySpades]

Vince Lombardi would like a word. Meet him behind the woodshed........

He's a New York City slicker....USA all the way! Also, he's dead...so I don't think he's much of a threat to anyone behind the woodshed or anywhere else

 

[JamesWsenior]

He's a New York City slicker....USA all the way! Also, he's dead...so I don't think he's much of a threat to anyone behind the woodshed or anywhere else

We used to have a defensive coordinator who was Italian I think? Guy had great hair. Tom somebody...last name reminded me of a typewriter.

 

[Ray R]

Ray, I usually just dismiss your sometimes incoherent ramblings and insults of other posters as being......well, someone who desires interaction with other humans without actually going out into the world. In this case I will address your points.

1) You may have "faith", but there is little evidence to support that faith as being rational. It isn't a matter of Grier being better than some random poster. It is a matter of him doing better than he has historically demonstrated.

2 and 3) Yes, there are examples of rd3 picks being good players, but from an "odds" perspective, history is against it. Only a small percentage become long term, quality starters. You are again going against historical facts.

4) I don't see any bias here, other than an anti Fangio one, and from what I've read and heard from players, Smith should have been on the field, if not for VFs personality or personal dislike.

5) Yeah, you are correct here. Have no idea where he got the impression you are "anti Tua". I thought it an odd comment at the time.

In closing, if you would take off those aqua and orange glasses for a moment, you would see that there are very likely issues and hurdles that cannot, and will not, be overcome in one single offseason given our limited picks and non optimal cap situation.

Or, leave those glasses on if you wish. That's fine too. Many others take that approach and remain blissful.

The thing is, someone disagreeing does not make them "dumb", or you right. Hell, you still think Gase was a good HC. You often attack posters in this way. Not sure why you find it necessary, as you have demonstrated an intellect that can easily function above such remarks.

Out of respect for you I will "limit" my replies:

1) No FO is right 100% of the time in spite the ravings here on Fin Heaven. As I see it, Grier is in the top 50% of GMs in his performance bringing in players that meet the coaches' preferences and keeping their owner satisfied. That seems to elude many of our posters. - LOL
2) & 3) We have had more than our fair share of good to exceptional middle round players. They were not all good their 1st year, but many have come around. Considering our coaching "turmoil" over the last 6 years, that is a minor miracle in its' own right.
4) I find his posts TOTALLY unbalanced and CONSISTANTLY negative. That's my opinion, but you're a big boy and can make up your own mind.
5) Yeah, that was a head scratcher for me too - or should I say TUA. - LOL

You are right when you say someone disagreeing with me doesn't make them dumb. That occurs when their position is totally presumptuous and presumes the posters opinions are facts. I feel this posters history of claims rather that facts support my "doubling down on being dumb" claim.

As to why I responded to him, let's just say I offered him the benefit of my "particular" wisdom - or it could be he just really "pissed me off". I admit it, I sometimes get a little too emotionally involved.

I can improve on that. Could you send me instructions on how to activate my "ignore" button?

 

[Mach2]

Out of respect for you I will "limit" my replies:

1) No FO is right 100% of the time in spite the ravings here on Fin Heaven. As I see it, Grier is in the top 50% of GMs in his performance bringing in players that meet the coaches' preferences and keeping their owner satisfied. That seems to elude many of our posters. - LOL
2) & 3) We have had more than our fair share of good to exceptional middle round players. They were not all good their 1st year, but many have come around. Considering our coaching "turmoil" over the last 6 years, that is a minor miracle in its' own right.
4) I find his posts TOTALLY unbalanced and CONSISTANTLY negative. That's my opinion, but you're a big boy and can make up your own mind.
5) Yeah, that was a head scratcher for me too - or should I say TUA. - LOL

You are right when you say someone disagreeing with me doesn't make them dumb. That occurs when their position is totally presumptuous and presumes the posters opinions are facts. I feel this posters history of claims rather that facts support my "doubling down on being dumb" claim.

As to why I responded to him, let's just say I offered him the benefit of my "particular" wisdom - or it could be he just really "pissed me off". I admit it, I sometimes get a little too emotionally involved.

I can improve on that. Could you send me instructions on how to activate my "ignore" button?

1) I have never been a Grier basher but say you are right that he is better than half the other GMs. Is that good enough? 43% (14 teams) of teams make the playoffs every year, so that's in line with your assertion but only a handful of those 14 are really legitimate championship contenders aside from the occasional "Cinderella story" here and there. If there are 5 actual contenders, that's only 15%.

I realize that is a oversimplification, but the reality is that a GM being barely in the top half is not something to be happy about. Our history under Grier is what it is, and it hasn't produced a single playoff win no matter how you slice it.

2) "Exceptional" is seriously overstating it IMO. Name the exceptional players we got in the mid rounds. I see a couple, but jags are the majority. AVG has been good. Jones OK. Achane impressed but it's early and he has already shown a propensity be out injured.

As far as our "coaching turmoil"? Just exactly who is responsible for the coaching staff if not Grier. I don't blame him for player evals, as I doubt he is hands on in that area, but it is his responsibility to maintain a stable coaching environment, a that starts with choosing wisely. If not, we might as well just throw names into a hat and let one of us blindly pick.

I do understand about certain poster getting on one's nerves.....lol.

 

[Ray R]

1) I have never been a Grier basher but say you are right that he is better than half the other GMs. Is that good enough? 43% (14 teams) of teams make the playoffs every year, so that's in line with your assertion but only a handful of those 14 are really legitimate championship contenders aside from the occasional "Cinderella story" here and there. If there are 5 actual contenders, that's only 15%.

I realize that is a oversimplification, but the reality is that a GM being barely in the top half is not something to be happy about. Our history under Grier is what it is, and it hasn't produced a single playoff win no matter how you slice it.

2) "Exceptional" is seriously overstating it IMO. Name the exceptional players we got in the mid rounds. I see a couple, but jags are the majority. AVG has been good. Jones OK. Achane impressed but it's early and he has already shown a propensity be out injured.

As far as our "coaching turmoil"? Just exactly who is responsible for the coaching staff if not Grier. I don't blame him for player evals, as I doubt he is hands on in that area, but it is his responsibility to maintain a stable coaching environment, a that starts with choosing wisely. If not, we might as well just throw names into a hat and let one of us blindly pick.

I do understand about certain poster getting on one's nerves.....lol.

Fair enough.

In defense of the FO's choice of coaches which ultimately led to our coaching turmoil, I feel I need to address how I see what caused it; which turns out to be a lot of unforeseen bad luck.

Gases' time here started out well until Tannehill, after he started to play well, was injured for 2.5 years; and a then there was a hurricane (more bad luck) which caused a lot of problems, and then there was Gase's staunch opposition to the owners wish to "tank" (which I fully agreed with Gase on) that was the breaking point that caused him to leave. The absurdity of the Forrester situation is another case of really bad luck for Gase and the team.

Who would have guessed that Torres would turn out to have an "unacceptable controlling personality" that management would not tolerate? More really bad luck, although I think an in-depth study of Torres background might have helped us avoid his selection as our HC.

To add "fuel to the fire" each coaching change brought with it a tide of new Co-Ordinator's and position coaches.

As far as the other points you made, they are reasonable enough to warrant being examined, and since none of us have access to what went on internally, I feel they are fair to question.
So as I said at the beginning of this post - Fair Enough.

 

[EJay]

I think I remember that green bay fans were happy when joe berry was let go

So were Broncos fans wrt Butch Barry. Last I recall, many Dolphins fans were happy with the development and performance of the o-line last season, despite all the injuries.

 

[IMAWriter]

Your level of error in this post exceeded even my expectations. - LOL

1) I have faith the FO will always do a better job than you in picking players in the draft, so you are RONG - again.
2) A lot of our "quality" players have been mid round and even UDFA's, so you are RONG again.
3) Trading down will give us an increased number of drafted players, which is a good thing - if the FO choses to do it, so you are RONG, again.
4) "Let Cam Smith have a "Real" opportunity to fail." - Unreal in the absurdity of your bias.
5) "...while you rag on folks who feel Tua has merit." - I'm a big Tua supporter, so you are RONG, again.

Final score: Four RONGS and one absurdity That may be a record for doubling down. It defies belief until a guy like you shows it so clearly. - LOL

Where is my little ignore button? - LOL

Ignore if you wish. I couldn’t give a freak. You folks with value quantity over quality…. A FO specialty are happy with the lack of quality backups? Did you not watch yesterday’s game? Even at 75%, both those teams have, and would still kick the Fins ass. Ignore THIS… the Dolphins have not had a ROY in 25 seasons. Enjoy mediocrity, Ray.

 

[Mach2]

Ignore if you wish. I couldn’t give a freak. You folks with value quantity over quality…. A FO specialty are happy with the lack of quality backups? Did you not watch yesterday’s game? Even at 75%, both those teams have, and would still kick the Fins ass. Ignore THIS… the Dolphins have not had a ROY in 25 seasons. Enjoy mediocrity, Ray.

I don't think not having a ROY is relevant to anything, but we have not had great success overall with the draft.