Drafting a Linebacker... yes, but which kind? | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Drafting a Linebacker... yes, but which kind?

Feverdream

Feverdream

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I think that a lot of folks are much too prone to look at the program, see a player listed as a LB, and then saying... "Doh! They're all the same; it says so right here". ...which, is sadly... untrue.

In a modern defense, there are three types, the EDGE, the MIKE, and the WILL. Defenses that play 4 LBs will add a S/LB tweener or an extra MIKE (rarely).

Edge Linebackers are generally going to be your star pass rusher, they play down as often as up. Chubb and Phillips are the tweeners who play this position (Ingram should be leaving since we obtained Chubb). So... yeah, we're loaded here. LOADED in the key position on defense--the one that punches the other QB in the mouth. (There is also a different kind of Linebacker that fits here, the pure Strong Side Linebacker, or Sam, but that position has a VERY low value in the modern game. Andrew Van Ginkle and Cameron Goode fit here, along with last year's SAM clone, Leo Chenal. These guys are run down players who might get 20-25 snaps a game.)

WILL, or weak side LBs (WSLB) are used on the other edge for coverage and blitzing. They must stop the run too, but that's their third calling. These guys tend to be much leaner than most Edges or MIKEs. They run... and run... and run... Currently, we have Baker who played on 89% of the snaps-- a TRUE starter, albeit an average one.

MIKEs are the largest of the LBs. They are run first players, but if they are to play all three downs, then they need to blitz and cover as well. Gods, we should have drafted Parsons, but I digress... We don't have one of these on the roster right now. Roberts played here at a 59% snap rate per game.

The biggest question should be, "which one is Channing Tindall, and is he ready"? Well, he could eventually be either or neither, but Roberts is a free agent, so Channing may get first chance there... and trading/releasing Baker could be on the table. Soooo, it should come down to how our new DC envisions using Tindall. He'll get a shot at starting; worst case, he could just replace Riley.

We're looking to buy at least one non-Edge LB, and I'm going to say that we need both right away. This year. Now! The new DC is going to want his kind of guys. Now. He can't win with Eguavoen, Scarlet, and Riley, and Roberts just isn't an answer here either.

So who fits our actual need? I like several of these guys even though it's a weak class, but at different value points in this draft, and this is one position that we may just watch the board for awhile and see who slides. I'm looking for a Parsons clone (yeh, not happening), and a blitz/cover guy.

Who do you like?
 
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Feverdream said:
I think that a lot of folks are much too prone to look at the program, see a player listed as a LB, and then saying... "Doh! They're all the same; it says so right here". ...which, is sadly... untrue.

In a modern defense, there are three types, the EDGE, the MIKE, and the WILL. Defenses that play 4 LBs will add a S/LB tweener or an extra MIKE (rarely).

Edge Linebackers are generally going to be your star pass rusher, they play down as often as up. Chubb and Phillips are the tweeners who play this position (Ingram should be leaving since we obtained Chubb). So... yeah, we're loaded here. LOADED in the key position on defense--the one that punches the other QB in the mouth. (There is also a different kind of Linebacker that fits here, the pure Strong Side Linebacker, or Sam, but that position has a VERY low value in the modern game. Andrew Van Ginkle and Cameron Goode fit here, along with last year's SAM clone, Leo Chenal. These guys are run down players who might get 20-25 snaps a game.)

WILL, or weak side LBs (WSLB) are used on the other edge for coverage and blitzing. They must stop the run too, but that's their third calling. These guys tend to be much leaner than most Edges or MIKEs. They run... and run... and run... Currently, we have Baker who played on 89% of the snaps-- a TRUE starter, albeit an average one.

MIKEs are the largest of the LBs. They are run first players, but if they are to play all three downs, then they need to blitz and cover as well. Gods, we should have drafted Parsons, but I digress... We don't have one of these on the roster right now. Roberts played here at a 59% snap rate per game.

The biggest question should be, "which one is Channing Tindall, and is he ready"? Well, he could eventually be either or neither, but Roberts is a free agent, so Channing may get first chance there... and trading/releasing Baker could be on the table. Soooo, it should come down to how our new DC envisions using Tindall. He'll get a shot at starting; worst case, he could just replace Riley.

We're looking to buy at least one non-Edge LB, and I'm going to say that we need both right away. This year. Now! The new DC is going to want his kind of guys. Now. He can't win with Eguavoen, Scarlet, and Riley, and Roberts just isn't an answer here either.

So who fits our actual need? I like several of these guys even though it's a weak class, but at different value points in this draft, and this is one position that we may just watch the board for awhile and see who slides. I'm looking for a Parsons clone (yeh, not happening), and a blitz/cover guy.

Who do you like?
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Jack Campbell, stick him in the middle and let Tindall go to the Weak Side.
 
DKphin said:
Jack Campbell, stick him in the middle and let Tindall go to the Weak Side.
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That's who came to mind for me. After reading a post about Fangio's defensive philosophy, Campbell seems perfect in that he wouldn't cover, or carry a receiver down the field. He'd essentially cover short, where he's decent and instinctive.

He's been moving up in the mocks I'm seeing. Sometimes in that Miami range, but often a little earlier.
 
jimthefin said:
We will have to wait to see who the DC is going to be.

I am not a huge fan of drafting 2 down LB's early but if Campbell wold be a 3rd down fit in the scheme then middle of round 2 is where he belongs.

He is certainly strong against the run.
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I feel like Campbell can cover in the flats etc. You just don't want him covering a tight end down the field. I think that becomes a mismatch.

I asked in another post, what type of linebacker Fangio would prefer. The basic response is he runs a lot of 4-2-5 and likely prefers more athletic linebackers. Of course, that is one person's opinion.

But if that is the case, maybe a third safety is more valuable?

Then again, we don't know who the DC is yet.
 
I'm not as high on Campbell as some of you, but I wouldn't be upset if we take him in the third or lower. I still think he's a bit stiff and would end up being a 50-60% snap player-- which wouldn't be awful, because I think that's his floor. His ceiling could be a three down player.
Overshown would certainly fit in the Baker role, previously a safety, he is the tweener type that has become more common these days.
Sewell could be the guy in the Middle... again, how far will he slide.
But I keep coming back to Drew Sanders. Misused at 'Bama, he blew up when moved to off-ball at Arkansas. If this guy slides to our 2nd round pick. I'm all over it. Less blocky than Campbell and Sewell, he's quicker than they are. He's the only 'backer I'd take this high besides Simpson... who is a pretty big boom/bust candidate.
 
My targets would be Dorian Williams from Tulane and Daiyan Henley from Washington State. These two guys are good tacklers and they have a mean streak. I am not sure how good they are in coverage, but they have excellent speed. I have Henley in the top 100 and Williams in the top 125.
 
Kebo said:
My targets would be Dorian Williams from Tulane and Daiyan Henley from Washington State. These two guys are good tacklers and they have a mean streak. I am not sure how good they are in coverage, but they have excellent speed. I have Henley in the top 100 and Williams in the top 125.
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I think both are 'watch for a slide candidates', especially if we trade down from one of our 3s.
 
One guy that no one has really mentioned is Sirvocea Dennis.

If you are looking for a high production/team leader type of guy who might not have elite measurables, but... as a value pick who could surprise, I think he's your guy.

He could, and has, played both wslb and MLB (three year starter) and is a very (maybe over) aggressive type of LB. He has Roberts' size, but should test a bit faster.

I'd spend an interview on this guy and see how smart he is before I'd draft him... but he's a good third day candidate.
 
Very interesting thread and I don’t see enough college football to know a lot of them yet. Looked into some posted about, def some intriguing options

Overshawn and Campbell I like, but the question is how far do they slide? Will LB be a higher priority than CB or maybe Ot? Hard to say - should be more clear after FA

But also we really need Tindall to develop.. we don’t know how good or bad he can be, odds are he ends up as more a weak side guy than a Mike (imo) but that’s not bad if he can replace Baker eventually
 
I like Sewell at Mike or Henley at will or Mike , like previous posters. One of them should slide to rd 2, I’ve seen Henley available in the 3rd in some mocks fwiw. I like Trenton Simpson a lot, but not sure of the scheme fit. Don’t know who our dc will, though we know who we want.
 
When I start thinking about drafting a particular position, I always look to past drafts to see, in general, how long this position lasts. So many times, we fans start to panic that OUR GUY won't be there, and then over-forecast how many players from OUR area will be taken. (Sound familiar?)

In 2022 (supposedly a stronger LB year), there were two men who came off in the board late in the 1st, Quay Walker and Devin Lloyd, both of whom had excellent years (though they combined for a paltry 1.5 sacks).

In the second, there was only one selected, Troy Anderson who was a part-time player. There were several OLBs taken, and you might mention Ebiketie here (who backed up at WSLB).

In the 3rd though... that's when they started to come off of the board: Asamoah, Muma, Harris, Malone, Dean, Bernard, then during the comp picks, Tindall and Chenall. In what was considered to be a strong group of ILBs, the 3rd round was the sweet spot... and I think it will be again. Most of these guys didn't play much, none of them excelled, and I think this is what you get when the LB that you draft isn't an absolute stud prospect. A lot of these guys need a year in a system before they really figure it out and begin to play intuitively, most of them will ALWAYS be part-time players.

So, while aggression is mandatory, I do think that drive and intelligence play a bigger role than some credit, (Zach) and I think this is REALLY hard to judge on film, and why the guys who get to interview these guys have such a huge advantage over the rest of us. And I also think this shows just how invaluable a guy like Parsons actually is; he plays all three downs and is ALSO a sacks guy... which is why that he was the only ILB that I've ever really thought belonged in the top of the 1st round.

So what does this mean to us... in a weak year? I don't think it would be surprising if only 1 ILB went in the first round, and maybe two more in the second. The sweet spot could fall into the 4th round this year. I have never seen a year where patience might be so rewarded. Sadly, our need is huge and we might jump.
 
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