“Embarrassment of riches” | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

“Embarrassment of riches”

JKS4 said:
I want to like Grier... but his mediocre first round I'm 2020 has me struggling

Tua over Herbert

Jackson over Jefferson

Igbinoghene over Swift and CEH

Hunt over Jonathan Taylor and Akers

Those were real needs when Miami was on the clock.
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Were you on the record for all of those picks before the draft or just opining from the cheap seats after the fact?
 
Ok fellas, its time to break out the gas mask and bongs!!! Time to celebrate!!! Acapulco Gold? Hashish? Whatcha got?
 
JKS4 said:
I want to like Grier... but his mediocre first round I'm 2020 has me struggling

Tua over Herbert

Jackson over Jefferson

Igbinoghene over Swift and CEH

Hunt over Jonathan Taylor and Akers

Those were real needs when Miami was on the clock.
Click to expand...
Benefit of hindsight is always great. However, there one poster above gave who gave Grier a 'B' and that's probably spot on in my opinion. The sheer fact that 10/11 draft picks contributed to the team (to varying degrees of success is absolutely uncanny). And half of those had moments that were absolutely good. Go back 5 years and find a team with the volume of picks who actually selected, started, played and contributed to their teams overall success and you'll find very few teams have that kind of ratio.

I agree that a RB would have been the better move instead of Iggy, but even then I understand the rationale. If Tua becomes the Qb a few still think he can, This draft would be one of the best in 10 years for the dolphins. I don't think you have to like Grier, but there is definitely a benefit of the doubt and it says he's better than average so far. This draft, FA will contribute to how he's viewed going forward.
 
fin415 said:
If might offer a slight difference of opinion:

Good GM's are profoundly influenced by their scouts and coaches (what the coach says they want/need to succeed). From all accounts, Grier works very collaboratively with his staff. That being said, he is the GM, so while he may not have been the only voice in good/bad decisions, it's his JOB to make sure there are no catastrophically bad decisions and that the team makes significantly more good decisions than bad.

So far, I think its hard to judge Grier because we don't have an insiders knowledge of how functional or dysfunctional the brain trust was for the years he's been in charge -- we can only judge the end results, which has been mediocre.

In the negative column, the Gase hire was catastrophic in hind-sight, with knock on impacts in the draft, but we don't know how much the owner (his boss) was involved.

In the plus column, the drafting seems to be trending up, but isn't best of league by any stretch. But his wheeling and dealing to get the team financially healthy and making what would have been hard choices to build a draft pipeline has been top of league. The Flores hire looks very, very good so far.

I'd give him a solid B -- and need to see more improvements with our drafting over the next year or two to remain satisfied (and yes, I know no one here gives a hoot what I think and if anyone on the team read this, they would soil themselves from laughing so hard).
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I can agree with that A- to A on the financial/cap/contract side. Unknown on the draft side. From hx, it takes quite a bit to dump a GM. He can always blame the HC )for misuse of players/ineptitude) or scouts. In this case, IMO, he has even more cover. Flo is generally seen as a up-and-coming HC, hired scouts are widely seen as among the best. If he relies on their opinions - he does - he just gets a new set. Eventually, if things tank, it will catch up with him, but not this year.
 
This thread in one package:

People not giving Grier any credit
People giving him too much credit
PFF stating the obvious
Crucifying Grier before the draft
Post Judging Grier for passing on other players just like other teams did
 
juniorseau55 said:
This thread in one package:

People not giving Grier any credit
People giving him too much credit
PFF stating the obvious
Crucifying Grier before the draft
Post Judging Grier for passing on other players just like other teams did
Click to expand...

QBs/HCs/GMs. Same argument - different title. None of those 3 (or others) succeed or fail on their own. Yet, we have people claiming a QB sucks and any data pointing to someone else or some other position as affecting his play is an 'excuse.' A new HC comes in and doesn't upgrade ALL positions? He upgraded the wrong ones. A GM is in place and not one All-Pro rookie? It's the GM who failed. Not the coaches. Not the scouts.

I'm not 'all in' on Grier, but that "embarrassment of riches" has his fingers on it as well as Flo's/coaches' and scouts.' Cap is markedly better. We know this . . . with thousands (exaggeration) of different opinions what Grier should do with R1 picks and in FA, there will be a LOT of people saying he should be fired. For some reason, Flo will be absolved of blame.
 
juniorseau55 said:
This thread in one package:

People not giving Grier any credit
People giving him too much credit
PFF stating the obvious
Crucifying Grier before the draft
Post Judging Grier for passing on other players just like other teams did
Click to expand...
Yet you took the time to log in and post your own comments.
 
deester11 said:
Benefit of hindsight is always great. However, there one poster above gave who gave Grier a 'B' and that's probably spot on in my opinion. The sheer fact that 10/11 draft picks contributed to the team (to varying degrees of success is absolutely uncanny). And half of those had moments that were absolutely good. Go back 5 years and find a team with the volume of picks who actually selected, started, played and contributed to their teams overall success and you'll find very few teams have that kind of ratio.

I agree that a RB would have been the better move instead of Iggy, but even then I understand the rationale. If Tua becomes the Qb a few still think he can, This draft would be one of the best in 10 years for the dolphins. I don't think you have to like Grier, but there is definitely a benefit of the doubt and it says he's better than average so far. This draft, FA will contribute to how he's viewed going forward.
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Be careful about the "we drafted players that started'.......the team talent was horrible going into the 2020 draft. We knew most players were going to get a chance to start over the players we had from the previous year.

It's not always about how many players can start for you but rather how many of your players could start for any team in the NFL?
 
ChitownPhins28 said:
Brady was practically Mr Irrelevant, all things considered. Youre not a genius for taking a flyer on a guy in the 6th round who played well in the Big 10.
If they had gone for him in the 4th or 5th and the experts called it 'a reach' at the time then it wouldve been a praise-worthy pick.
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My point is we can make that comment about any draft pick. The team still has to make the pick. Why is BB considered a draft genius when most of his picks suck? Point is you can argue that a player fell, but the reason for that is different in every case and also takes advantage of hindsight bias. It’s like sayin I’m glad we didn’t take so and so 4 years ago, because he turned out terrible. It’s just not an analytic argument, it’s weak.
 
utahphinsfan said:
Bill? Ted? Cheech? Chong? Harold? Kumar? Which one?
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Good bad or right or wrong -- if you've followed Grier's pressers through the years and his rather clearly stated philosophy coupled with his background (who he's been most influenced by) --- I seriously doubt the pick of Tua over Herbert was Grier's #1 choice. WHY???

A number of reasons -- and these are all related to the "map" deduced from the above:

1) Injury -- Proven soundness and ability to be counted on (dependability to be on the field)

2) Position spec -- ideal size, weight and key performance characteristics per position

3) Proven history (longevity) starting games in college

4) Prior scouting and focus -- amount of "intelligence" gathered on a prospect and duration of study

In addition to the above, it was common knowledge Ross was a Tua fan and attended games to watch him.
Check the history -- he never attended any Herbert games -- tho TBum did and was reportedly "sold" on Herbert.
Also going back a bit in history -- Ross (to his credit) was horny as hell for Watson and reportedly got talked
out of him by TBum (with maybe an assist by Grier but that's speculation).

So Ross locked in on Tua and wasn't going to get talked out of his "choice" this time and... there ya go.
There's a lot more that helps substantiate this narrative including the way Tua was handled by Flo
and the less than glowing support the kid received. All that and more points to a scenario that was
a dupe of the Rosen acquisition -- another Ross dictate that Grier executed as best he could to
minimize the "damage" (getting the deferred R2).

Last, there are quite a few whispers in the NFL media world basically stating that Tua was a Ross choice.
And bottom line -- it's his team and he can make such decisions. And Grier and Flo have to deal with it.
 
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fin415 said:
Were you on the record for all of those picks before the draft or just opining from the cheap seats after the fact?
Click to expand...
I wanted Tua over Herbert.

I was begging for Jefferson and Taylor, Dobbins or Swift.
 
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