Fire Grier and Flores Now!

[Mudd]

They hired Coach Flo to tank. They paid him to tank and then stockpile picks for a tear-down rebuild. They planned a tank job to get the top pick and rebuild the roster from the ground up with draft picks. They executed this plan in the offseason trading everything for 2020 and 2021 draft picks. They've begun executing the tank. Ross signed off on this plan. Grier designed this plan. They recruited Coach Flo to execute this plan after Adam Gase indicated that he was not going to be a part of a tear-down rebuild tank job. Now, they're delivering on that plan and it's going according to plan. No, we didn't intend to lose by 49 points … but we wanted to make sure we lost this week, and next week, and continued losing almost every game all season, so we had to gut the roster, and we did.

Add to all of that we're going through an adjustment phase of learning entirely new systems and schemes. Lots of players are brand new, either rookies or new additions, some in the week before the season started--and those guys played! So yeah, it was bound to be horrible.

If there ends up being 1 great QB in the 2020 draft and he goes #1 overall … and we finish with the #2 pick … we have failed. The only way to do this is to tank, and that's exactly what we're doing. There's zero chance we fire these guys now. NOBODY is signing on at the beginning of the tank knowing we just gutted the roster of talent and immediately changed our minds and expect wins. We'll get no GM's worth a dang, and absolutely no coaches, head coaches or otherwise. There are ZERO options if we try to change course now.

No, this path was planned, predicted, and is now set. There are no benefits from deviating from the plan now. Let's just follow the plan and see how it works out. Yes, we've been saying since we signed Coach Flo, this is going to be a very painful season. Many people didn't believe me then, most have seen the light now … but for the resolute few who think we can and should try to win 6 games this year … I simply say, I disagree. At this point our best chance to build a team that can challenge for anything is to complete the tank job. We tried jumping off the tankwagon in the Suck for Luck sweepstakes, and we had the pole position half way through the season … and we entered the Tannehill era and didn't challenge for anything. This time, let's win the tankathon.

Was losing the locker room after week one part of the plan? Embarrassing the players part of the plan?
This team is almost to a point of not having the assets to complete a rebuild. And if your own players don't want to be here a free agent sure as he ll won 't.

 

[PhxSunFan34]

Tank without losing the locker room, trading away young talent , tarnishing the franchise image even more, and setting dubious records for home losses.

I mean most of that seems like your personal opinion because you're upset. The others are just consequences of tanking. If you're embracing the tank, then losing the locker room is par for the course.

I can understand being upset about letting Tunsil go, but it was still a steal.

However, I'm embarrassed as eff too. I wear a phins lanyard at the office and have had my share of comments or laughter this entire week.

But whatever, I've accepted the plan and will judge after 3 years. Can't get mad when things are going to plan

 

[PhxSunFan34]

You're dismissing that fact that you'd have to be an idiot to agree to a tank job and think you are going to come out on the other end smelling like roses.

I'm not sure if you're arguing my point, but I agree with yours lol

 

[PortFin]

I don't know that Grier and/or Flores are the right people to lead us out of this. But-- if you're Ross, I don't know how you fire people for doing exactly what you told them you were onboard with doing. We're one game in. And if you do, who is going to want to come run your team after that? It was hard enough to find people to do it this time.

 

[FinFan17]

Why are you getting upset, It's not like you didn't know the Dolphins are going to tank for the next two years. Go to a movie or do some yard work. I feel for all the Miami fans because the Canes and Fins both stink. Let's hope they can turn it around in a few years and build a dynasty.

 

[BlueFin]

Grier should have already been fired

This team always hangs on to part of the problem it seems.....

 

[Dynastybuilder]

The fact that you mention that you were going to start this thread next January shows you have a bias to the situation.Demanding they be fired at the end of the year when they've played about %7 of their schedule is borderline crazy.

 

[Digital]

Was losing the locker room after week one part of the plan? Embarrassing the players part of the plan?
This team is almost to a point of not having the assets to complete a rebuild. And if your own players don't want to be here a free agent sure as he ll won 't.

Good question … so let's look at the answers as best we can.

Losing the locker room … hmmm, considering that we'll keep about 5-8 players from this roster … yeah, it seems like a reasonable loss. The real question is can you keep those 5-8 players? It seems we've got Xavien Howard, Christian Wilkins, Jerome Baker, Mike Gesicki, Michael Deiter, and Jesse Davis. The only other guys who are likely to be on this roster in 2 years currently playing are Bobby McCain and Minkah Fitzpatrick, and we're clearly losing MF's loyalty at present … but I'm hopeful we can regain it.

If you're asking how we're going to be able to survive without guys like Julie'n Davenport or Charles Harris or Eric Rowe … I think we'll be OK. Sure, there's some other guys who are possibilities like Boehm, Isadora, Godchaux, McMillan, Van Ginkel, Rosen, Grant, Drake, Ballage … well let's just say they'll stick with the program or not stick with the team. The locker room is mostly made up of guys we're going to be replacing over the next 2 years. Stopgap guys like Reshad Jones and Daniel Kilgore aren't a great concern. The plan is to replace them anyway. If we find a hidden gem in Preston Williams or Ledbetter (IR) work out, then great. If not … they're all replaceable. Losing the locker room of replacement players on a tear down rebuilding team isn't nearly as bad as losing the locker room of a veteran playoff team.

Embarassing? Look, these guys are playing for their OWN professional lives, not the Miami Dolphins at this point. They're working hard to put good film up there so some other team offers them a soft landing when they get cut. Aside from those 5-8 players we'll be keeping … everyone is on thin ice. No guarantees their NFL career survives past this season, and if they want to start, THIS is their best chance to prove themselves. We're not looking to embarrass players … but if they don't want to be embarrassed, they need to do their jobs better. Hey, the OL did a halfway decent job of pass protection considering its ragtag nature and everyone playing being new or out of position. But that defense was atrocious. Xavien Howard and Reshad Jones might have done their jobs, because I didn't really hear their names. Can't say anyone else did. Those guys given a chance to start stunk up the joint. They want to avoid embarrassment … work harder. Minkah may want a trade … but he was bad, and he needs to practice more.

I doubt there is too much concern for embarrassing players though … because the coaching staff could just as easily be embarrassed by how bad the players played.

Feel indignant if you like … but again … this is the plan, we're tanking. The goal is to get a top QB and use our insane amount of draft picks to replace all these scrubs stinking up the joint. If they want to be in the NFL past this year … they need to prove they can play competently … and that will stop them from being embarrassed.

 

[phinking]

How's the for throwing a monkey wrench into this whole "tank for Tua" crap? Tua Tagovailoa talks to FORMER TEAMATE Minkah Fitzpatrick about the climate in the Dolphins locker room. Minkah Fitzpatrick says the HC is a moron. Tua Tagovailoa decides he would rather return to Alabama for his senior year than to play for the Miami Dolphins who tanked, risked players safety in order to draft him. You think heads will roll then? I do.

 

[Gonzofinfan]

Tua could go back to bama, risk getting his knee shredded for free.. I don't see that happening when your the number 1 pick and I think Minkah is just butthurt from getting exposed as being bad at Safety.. The team is gonna see better days this season and I think when we play well Minkah will settle down.. He is a 23 year old kid its a long season and i have faith in the brass to settle this team down and get them to compete starting this week.

I'm not saying we will beat the pats but i have a feeling its going to be competitive and close. Much closer then these people predicting a ravens repeat.

 

[McMichael]

Pats had 32 picks to Dolphins 30 in that time frame. I only see 2 out of the league for Patriots definitively according to https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/draft.htm. Dolphins have 4 out of the league (if you include Asiata who just retired): https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/mia/draft.htm

This is one measure, but I think the better measure is to look at the roster as a whole and see how many were drafted by that team, and for how long. To do this right it would take far more time than I have right now, so I will make the comparison of starters only.

Patriots Starters Drafted by the Team:
QB Tom Brady (2000)
RB Sony Michel (2018)
WR Julian Edelman (2009)
LT Isaiah Wynn (2018)
LG Joe Thuney (2016)
C Ted Karras (2016)
RG Shaq Mason (2015)
RT Marcus Cannon (2011)
---
LDE Deatrich Wise Jr (2017)
WLB Dont'a Hightower (2012)
MLB Elandon Roberts (2016)
SS Patrick Chung (2009)
FS Devin McCourty (2010)
---
K Stephen Gostkowski (2006)

Breakdown:
Total Starters Drafted By Team: 14
<4 Years in League: 6
>4 Years in League: 8

Dolphins Starters Drafted by the Team:
RB Kenyand Drake (2016)
WR Devante Parker (2015)
WR Jakeem Grant (2016)
TE Mike Gesicki (2018)
LG Michael Deiter (2019)
---
NT Davon Godchaux (2017)
RDE Christian Wilkins (2019)
LILB Raekwon McMillan (2017)
RILB Jerome Baker (2018)
SLB Charles Harris (2018)
LCB Xavien Howard (2016)
SS Bobby McCain (2015)
FS Reshad Jones (2010)
FS Minkah Fitzpatrick (2018) [not listed as starter on depthchart according to ESPN, but he starts so I included him]
---
K Jason Sanders (2018)

Breakdown:
Total Starters Drafted By Team: 15
<4 Years in League: 12
>4 Years in League: 3

Now consider the quality of the drafted starters... NE's entire O-Line was drafted almost entirely within the last 4 years, yet the Dolphins don't have a single player on the OL drafted by the team except for rookie Michael Deter. NE's OL is considered tops in the league, ours is considered the worst in Dolphins history. Who is responsible for that? Somehow NE could build an elite O-Line in just a little over 5 years, yet Grier couldn't even find ONE quality starter (other than the one he traded away) in that time span.

Now also consider how many top quality drafted starters they have on their second contracts in NE. That means that it is much more difficult for their players drafted since 2016 to make it into the starting lineup and stick with the team. Compare that with the Dolphins who have a whopping 12 starters since 2016, and only 3 from the years before that. Only 3 are in their 2nd or 3rd contract with the team. That means there is A LOT more opportunity for less talented draft picks since 2016 to stick around.

And don't forget, Grier also played an integral role in drafting for almost 2 decades. What does it say that this team is completely bereft of those players outside of Reshad Jones?

Yet you fail to mention we just traded one of our recent high pick O lineman for a kings ransom. We also failed to resign our 2nd best lineman in the off-season, juwan James, another drafted lineman.

We are full blown 100 percent tanking. The Tunsil/Stills trade that Houston overpaid for tipped things over the deep end. We were the least talented team BEFORE that trade yet we had to do it at that stupid price.

Now you want to fire everyone.....cuz we lost....one game......

 

[DZimmer000]

Yet you fail to mention we just traded one of our recent high pick O lineman for a kings ransom. We also failed to resign our 2nd best lineman in the off-season, juwan James, another drafted lineman.

We are full blown 100 percent tanking. The Tunsil/Stills trade that Houston overpaid for tipped things over the deep end. We were the least talented team BEFORE that trade yet we had to do it at that stupid price.

Now you want to fire everyone.....cuz we lost....one game......

For me, it has nothing to do with losing one game. Even though, you have to admit that was a very embarrassing loss. For me, it’s about the proven incompetence of Chris Grier. Yes, we’re tanking. But if Grier is so good as a GM...... Why would we need to Tank? Skape pointed out his drafts. They’re well below average. And the 2019 draft doesn’t look like it’s anything special yet either. So my question is....... Are you confident that Grier is the guy to rebuild this team? I’m DEFINITELY not. I want to see Ross completely clean house in January and hand the reigns to someone with a proven track record in the draft.

 

[SkapePhin]

Yet you fail to mention we just traded one of our recent high pick O lineman for a kings ransom. We also failed to resign our 2nd best lineman in the off-season, juwan James, another drafted lineman.

We are full blown 100 percent tanking. The Tunsil/Stills trade that Houston overpaid for tipped things over the deep end. We were the least talented team BEFORE that trade yet we had to do it at that stupid price.

Now you want to fire everyone.....cuz we lost....one game......

Actually, I did mention Tunsil was traded for multiple picks.

I think the key thing you will notice as a difference between good teams (NE) and bad teams (MIA) is that good teams resign their own drafted players because they are good, while bad teams don’t. The difference in drafted players on their 2nd or 3rd contracts is stark.

 

[TeeMoney]

So you feel confident that Grier is the guy to rebuild this team? Just curious

I'm confident Grier can write Tuanigamanuolepola "Tua" Tagovailoa on the draft card and hand it to Roger Goodell.

 

[DZimmer000]

I'm confident Grier can write Tuanigamanuolepola "Tua" Tagovailoa on the draft card and hand it to Roger Goodell.

Yeah..... He can do that. But the problem is..... What does he write on the other draft cards? You have to admit..... He’s done a pretty bad job at it up until now.