Flores Indicates That Rosen Is Not Ready Yet... (merged 3x)

[bradmcnutt13]

QB, for 1. LT, CB1, RB, TE, LB. We lost James, Wake, Quinn.

I think the way we play D moving forward neither Wake nor Quinn was much of a fit. I expect 3 big guys up front on almost all downs.

I'm not sure how we're clearly better at a position when its the same guy at that position. I mean I expect that guys to improve considering they're young but I don't think its some significant upgrade. QB, that's yet to be seen. At this point, we've replaced a good backup in Tanne with a good backup in Fitz. Just b/c Fitz starts for us doesn't make him a starting caliber qb. Rosen isn't even starting yet so he hasn't even beaten out the good backup. As far as downgrades, we're clearly worse at DE and RT. I don't think that's debatable.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

I would think however on such a big move they must have agreed to some terms. Why would Grier trade for someone that he felt the HC would never give a chance to be the starting QB of the future? Grier knows this is it for him. He would be beyond ignorant to trade for a talent he felt the HC would simply ignore. Making a trade for such a young, at one time highly touted talent like Rosen screams he could be the possible future starting QB for the Phins. I don't think there is any other way to see this situation. Just as if the Dolphins decided to draft a QB early in this past years NFL draft.

I think on this move it is far more in the realm of possibility that down to the owner was in on the Rosen trade, let alone just the HC.

Well, it wasn't a big move first of all. I don't think you understand what really went on.

Nobody said Flores would never give him a chance to be the starting QB of the future. Coach Flores' job is to prepare all players to do their jobs, but it's also his job to determine when they're ready to do their jobs. But they're not all in the same place in terms of how ready they are to do their jobs.

Most importantly, the big move hasn't been made yet.

Nothing about Rosen screams he could be the QB of the future for them. This is simply steering people wrong again. He's competing for the starting quarterback job. That's it. If he can't win it, he'll be a cheap backup.

I understand a few people want to envision all involved are holding hands and singing in unison when it comes to personnel decisions. If you're trying to tell me Grier isn't the one who makes these decisions - or doesn't make decisions without coaches and the owner all in agreement with every single decision - you're simply wasting your time.

You can't get two people to agree on everything when it comes to football. Much less multiple people. I promise you Coach Flores did not tell Grier to go offer a 2nd & 5th round pick for Josh Rosen so he could develop him.

 

[Rowdy1972]

Well no kidding on Lawrence. He's probably the best that played the QB position at his age. I

I know you have your heart set on Tua, but everything is already set up for the TL scenario. Rosen comes in damaged and needing help gaining confidence and developing into a leader. Flores starts Fitz to mentor JR and to protect Rosen from further damage behind such a terrible OL. Flores is a first year HC and starting Fitz validates his win now philosophy with the veteran players. You don’t let go of a premier potential QB talent without giving him at least two years in the system, etc.

Like it or not, this is a perfectly reasonable and viable approach For a rookie HC and can be justified successfully with dozens of reasons more than my short list. I said when they traded for Rosen that QB was off the table next year, and it sure looks right now that it could really happen. I fully expect the lines to be the focus next year in the draft and then TL to be the target the following draft. This would be a dangerous gamble by the FO, but if they could pull it off I would be thrilled. I believe TL could be generational quality, which I don’t believe any QB in next year’s draft to be. If they employ this strategy and miss out on TL, though, then I would be all in on another FO and coaching staff purge.

If we get the top pick in 2021 it means we are getting it in 2020. It means Rosen is absolutely terrible so this year is gonna be ugly because we got cap space and picks to really improve next offseason.

No way this team has less or equal talent next year. It would be impossible.

 

[ckparrothead]

Well, it wasn't a big move first of all. I don't think you understand what really went on.

Nobody said Flores would never give him a chance to be the starting QB of the future. Coach Flores' job is to prepare all players to do their jobs, but it's also his job to determine when they're ready to do their jobs. But they're not all in the same place in terms of how ready they are to do their jobs.

Most importantly, the big move hasn't been made yet.

Nothing about Rosen screams he could be the QB of the future for them. This is simply steering people wrong again. He's competing for the starting quarterback job. That's it. If he can't win it, he'll be a cheap backup.

I understand a few people want to envision all involved are holding hands and singing in unison when it comes to personnel decisions. If you're trying to tell me Grier isn't the one who makes these decisions - or doesn't make decisions without coaches and the owner all in agreement with every single decision - you're simply wasting your time.

You can't get two people to agree on everything when it comes to football. Much less multiple people. I promise you Coach Flores did not tell Grier to go offer a 2nd & 5th round pick for Josh Rosen so he could develop him.

Technically I believe it was Chad O'Shea who asked that. He's a fan. As per our people.

But that only adds to your argument because it shows just how many (potentially discordant) voices there really are in the (or any) organization.

 

[BigNastyFish]

I wouldn't deliberately steer anybody wrong.

And anybody that thinks Grier and Flores and everybody else involved agree on everything is trying to steer you wrong. All they're trying to do is obfuscate Grier's impact and responsibility just like they've been doing. Coach Flores did not trade a 2nd round pick for Josh Rosen.

Outside of your continuing swipes at Grier -- you're slightly changing your narrative. "Agree on everything" is really abstract.
You're taking a big risk with that one...

Unless you're calling Grier a liar as well -- he explains it clearly.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nc...trade-to-arizona-for-qb-josh-rosen/vi-BBWl10N

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Outside of your continuing swipes at Grier -- you're slightly changing your narrative. "Agree on everything" is really abstract.
You're taking a big risk with that one...

Unless you're calling Grier a liar as well -- he explains it clearly.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nc...trade-to-arizona-for-qb-josh-rosen/vi-BBWl10N

Sounds to me like you're calling him a liar. He 100% reiterated everything that I've said.




"It was an opportunity to add competition and talent at a position". - Chris Grier

"He's competing for the starting quarterback job. That's it. If he can't win it, he'll be a cheap backup". - TedSlimmJr


He also said they worked together with the coaching staff. He didn't say everyone agreed with everything. Working together means everyone probably didn't agree, but they were able to work together to come up with a solution that was suitable.

Just have my big nasty $100 bill ready fella. PM me for details on where to send it.

 

[ckparrothead]

Wait, what's this bet?

 

[ChambersWI]

I can tell you this much even when the team traded for Rosen everybody involved from Grier to Flores to O'Shea to scouts all were still working under the impression that QB would be the main target next year or at the very worst the year after. Has Rosen made progress? Yes. Is he where the team wants him yet? No. But Rosen was never acquired with the thought process he would be the guy but that he would have the chance to show he could be the guy

 

[ohall]

Well, it wasn't a big move first of all. I don't think you understand what really went on.

Nobody said Flores would never give him a chance to be the starting QB of the future. Coach Flores' job is to prepare all players to do their jobs, but it's also his job to determine when they're ready to do their jobs. But they're not all in the same place in terms of how ready they are to do their jobs.

Most importantly, the big move hasn't been made yet.

Nothing about Rosen screams he could be the QB of the future for them. This is simply steering people wrong again. He's competing for the starting quarterback job. That's it. If he can't win it, he'll be a cheap backup.

I understand a few people want to envision all involved are holding hands and singing in unison when it comes to personnel decisions. If you're trying to tell me Grier isn't the one who makes these decisions - or doesn't make decisions without coaches and the owner all in agreement with every single decision - you're simply wasting your time.

You can't get two people to agree on everything when it comes to football. Much less multiple people. I promise you Coach Flores did not tell Grier to go offer a 2nd & 5th round pick for Josh Rosen so he could develop him.

Ya I guess that is why we see things differently. Anything that involves a QB IMO is a big deal or move. It's the most important position on any team, and to think the HC and GM would make a deal for a potential future starting QB on their team without coming to some understanding IMO is simply not realistic. Further I'd be shocked if both men didn't want the approval of the owner. But I'm just rehashing.

 

[BigNastyFish]

Sounds to me like you're calling him a liar. He 100% reiterated everything that I've said.




"It was an opportunity to add competition and talent at a position". - Chris Grier

"He's competing for the starting quarterback job. That's it. If he can't win it, he'll be a cheap backup". - TedSlimmJr


He also said they worked together with the coaching staff. He didn't say everyone agreed with everything. Working together means everyone probably didn't agree, but they were able to work together to come up with a solution that was suitable.

Just have my big nasty $100 bill ready fella. PM me for details on where to send it.

I get it. I think we ALL get it. You obviously have an "issue" with Grier.

I just don't understand what motivates you to take continuous swipes at the Miami GM when
you've admitted you're not a fan of the team. In that sense -- what difference does it make to you?

Beyond that -- I've heard crit on Grier for being too conservative, not taking risks, etc. And then we
make a relatively aggressive move for Rosen -- and now that's a poor choice that he effectively
shoved down Flores throat. I get the impression you'll take any angle to go after Grier.

As far as "agreeing on everything," let's be real. Does that EVER happen in any situation???

But for sure -- Flores was onboard with the trade and as Grier noted -- the staff had already invested
time checking Rosen out (due diligence).

The ONLY viable point to your "position" is the assumption Flores protested on the R2 value. Because
if he was totally against the acquisition it would not have happened. That part of the equation is fact.

You've stated that you like the coaching staff... Well, who do you believe hired Flores???

 

[BigNastyFish]

Wait, what's this bet?

If Miami will ever win a playoff game with Grier as GM.

 

[phinking]

This just appears to me that Josh Rosen is being jerked around and I don't like it. All this talk about the 2020 draft could turn out to be a fatal move for this franchise when we have IMO our franchise QB right now. I want EVERY member of this site to help me out if I'm mistaken. The last time the NFL had a great QB out of Alabama was Ken Stabler. The last time the NFL had a great QB to come out of Oregon was Dan Fouts. The ONLY QB to be successful in the NFL out of Georgia is Matthew Stafford. I am telling you all that Josh Rosen is a better QB than Herbert, Fromm or Tagovailoa.

 

[rent this space]

This just appears to me that Josh Rosen is being jerked around and I don't like it. All this talk about the 2020 draft could turn out to be a fatal move for this franchise when we have IMO our franchise QB right now. I want EVERY member of this site to help me out if I'm mistaken. The last time the NFL had a great QB out of Alabama was Ken Stabler. The last time the NFL had a great QB to come out of Oregon was Dan Fouts. The ONLY QB to be successful in the NFL out of Georgia is Matthew Stafford. I am telling you all that Josh Rosen is a better QB than Herbert, Fromm or Tagovailoa.

he's better but just hasn't shown it yet?

 

[ckparrothead]

If Miami will ever win a playoff game with Grier as GM.

Oh I wouldn't take that bet. If only because I don't like taking bets that take like 3 years to figure out.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

I get it. I think we ALL get it. You obviously have an "issue" with Grier.

I just don't understand what motivates you to take continuous swipes at the Miami GM when
you've admitted you're not a fan of the team. In that sense -- what difference does it make to you?

Beyond that -- I've heard crit on Grier for being too conservative, not taking risks, etc. And then we
make a relatively aggressive move for Rosen -- and now that's a poor choice that he effectively
shoved down Flores throat. I get the impression you'll take any angle to go after Grier.

As far as "agreeing on everything," let's be real. Does that EVER happen in any situation???

But for sure -- Flores was onboard with the trade and as Grier noted -- the staff had already invested
time checking Rosen out (due diligence).

The ONLY viable point to your "position" is the assumption Flores protested on the R2 value. Because
if he was totally against the acquisition it would not have happened. That part of the equation is fact.

You've stated that you like the coaching staff... Well, who do you believe hired Flores???

No you don't get it.

I don't have an issue with Grier. If the owner or people like you want to keep Grier as GM for the next 30 years it doesn't make any difference to me. Let's just say I have a well informed take on what's going on.

See, you're like that little dog that chases cars up down the road when they drive by it's property. Your tongue has to be dragging the ground by now. You just don't know any better. But you're fixing to get run over soon.

I was the only one that said I would trade for Rosen when the very first trade for Rosen thread popped up. I think maybe Vaark was the other. It was 99% a no across the board here. But I also said I wouldn't do it for my 2nd round pick. It was a good trade on Miami's part to take the chance and recoup the 2nd rounder next year. That's what working together with the coaching staff means. It doesn't happen otherwise.

It's not about the Rosen trade. It's about people like you trying to obfuscate what's really going on and steer people wrong. Just don't try to tell me what I know and don't know. I'll do the same.

My angle never changes. To the contrary. You'll take any angle to continue obfuscating - even when Grier does tell the truth.

We've already talked about Grier and the hiring of the coaching staff. We're going to find out how good he is at facilitating success for the people he hired. We'll know soon. But he'll have to do better than Jordan Mills and Isaiah Prince in order for that to ever happen.