Flores not sure Xavien Howard will be at camp.

[TheRevoltingBlob]

You need to go back and reread the thread and my position. Because you are proving my stance correct.
I was responding to a post that if a player doesn't perform to his contract, the team will do exactly what he says they don't...and take a pay cut.
Thank you for agreeing with me and my supporting documents!!

Ok. Well that's dumb enough that I don't even care to go back and check. The NFL has non-guaranteed contracts unless guarenteed money is negotiated.

If they didn't we'd be paying Jordan Howard 5 mill this season.

Players on non-guaranteed (or low guaranteed) deals get cut all the time. And yes teams will try to use the fact that they can be cut to renegotiate them to restructure to a lower amount that includes more guaranteed money. We tried to do that with Van Noy.

But when players do actually have contracts with significant guarantees, like Byron, the team is in fact stuck paying them the full amount and can't ask them to take less.

So sure your right about that one thing. Cool. If we want to make this about a player empowerment discussion and how the current system is unfair to players overall, I agree.

But let's live in this current reality. Can u name me ONE player that has demanded a raise one year into a long term (5 year) contract extension.

X signed that deal back when he had his own concerns about his health. He came back in 2019, didn't look right, and played 5 games. His extension was already signed before that season and he received a large chunk of his bonus money that year.

He could have bet on himself and waited to sign his contract once he had proven his health and hadn't had his season ended after 12 games. The second time he suffered a season ending injury in his three seasons.

He didn't want to take that risk. And we still made him the highest paid CB at the time but his contract would have more guaranteed money if he didn't sign it when his health was so in question. He wanted to get paid when his longterm outlook was looking somewhat questionable (and looked much worse the year after he signed it).

Now he wants to double dip when things are looking good. Do we get our money back if that knee he's had multiple surgeries on becomes a problem again?

Honestly if we are just talking about negotiating guaranteeing a reasonable amount his base salary, whatever, I'm willing the have that discussion.

But if he wants to totally renegotiate a contract he's played one of 5 years on to increase his actual salary... GTF out of here. If we give in to that, every player on our team will know we have a b**** FO.

What will happen if Baker, Gesicki, or Ogbah breakout and significantly outplay the hypothetical extensions we give them and want more? They are watching how they could go about getting that right now.

 

[SCOTTY]

Ok. Well that's dumb enough that I don't even care to go back and check. The NFL has non-guaranteed contracts unless guarenteed money is negotiated.

If they didn't we'd be paying Jordan Howard 5 mill this season.

Players on non-guaranteed (or low guaranteed) deals get cut all the time. And yes teams will try to use the fact that they can be cut to renegotiate them to restructure to a lower amount that includes more guaranteed money. We tried to do that with Van Noy.

But when players do actually have contracts with significant guarantees, like Byron, the team is in fact stuck paying them the full amount and can't ask them to take less.

So sure your right about that one thing. Cool. If we want to make this about a player empowerment discussion and how the current system is unfair to players overall, I agree.

But let's live in this current reality. Can u name me ONE player that has demanded a raise one year into a long term (5 year) contract extension.

X signed that deal back when he had his own concerns about his health. He came back in 2019, didn't look right, and played 5 games. His extension was already signed before that season and he received a large chunk of his bonus money that year.

He could have bet on himself and waited to sign his contract once he had proven his health and hadn't had his season ended after 12 games. The second time he suffered a season ending injury in his three seasons.

He didn't want to take that risk. And we still made him the highest paid CB at the time but his contract would have more guaranteed money if he didn't sign it when his health was so in question. He wanted to get paid when his longterm outlook was looking somewhat questionable (and looked much worse the year after he signed it).

Now he wants to double dip when things are looking good. Do we get our money back if that knee he's had multiple surgeries on becomes a problem again?

Honestly if we are just talking about negotiating guaranteeing a reasonable amount his base salary, whatever, I'm willing the have that discussion.

But if he wants to totally renegotiate a contract he's played one of 5 years on to increase his actual salary... GTF out of here. If we give in to that, every player on our team will know we have a b**** FO.

What will happen if Baker, Gesicki, or Ogbah breakout and significantly outplay the hypothetical contracts we give them and want more? They are watching how they could go about getting that right now.

I stopped reading after name one player wanting to renegotiate after one year. That is where all the haters go wrong. It not about the length of the contract in the NFL. It's the guaranteed money. That had been my point from the start. After this year there is no G money on this most amazing contract every wants him to fulfill. He's simply using his best season last year to jump start the new contract. A 5 year contract with only 2 guaranteed is only a TWO year contract.

 

[TheRevoltingBlob]

I stopped reading after name one player wanting to renegotiate after one year. That is where all the haters go wrong. It not about the length of the contract in the NFL. It's the guaranteed money. That had been my point from the start. After this year there is no G money on this most amazing contract every wants him to fulfill. He's simply using his best season last year to jump start the new contract. A 5 year contract with only 2 guaranteed is only a TWO year contract.

Well then u should have kept reading...

"Honestly if we are just talking about negotiating guaranteeing a reasonable amount his base salary, whatever, I'm willing the have that discussion."

But also... that was the contract he signed. And he signed it bc he had significant injury concerns at the time and he wanted THAT money then.

If he hadn't had season ending injuries in 2 of his 3 seasons he would have gotten a contract like Byron's.

 

[SCOTTY]

Well then u should have kept reading...

"Honestly if we are just talking about negotiating guaranteeing a reasonable amount his base salary, whatever, I'm willing the have that discussion."

You have two completely opposite takes in the same situation though. All I have been saying from the beginning is...X is out of G money after this year. His amazing 75M contract only G less than 28M. He is using his best year last year to start the renegotiation. His contract was always a 2 year deal the way it was written. So we would be renegotiationing at the end of this year. X is just being smart about it as he just has his best season. If he tanks this year, I have no doubt he is cut at no cost to the team. The whole illegal and immoral argument is the stupidest I've ever seen posted by others. Pure lack of understanding the NFL, business and basically life in general.

 

[Kyndig]

lol! If he were 25-26 like Ramsey or Bailey etc then you’d probably get that. But he’s 28 and no one is giving you that and he comes with injury risk. Honestly getting a 2nd would be a pretty good considering that team would take on that risk and have to pay him that contract.

I’d be impress of Grier can pull that off

Injury history is a concern which is why I would trade him, but he’s at Ramsay’s level when healthy which he is healthy currently. Of course it seems like whenever guys skip training camp and then start the season they have a higher injury rate. I’ll bet we could get at least a 1st round pick for him.

 

[TheRevoltingBlob]

You have two completely opposite takes in the same situation though. All I have been saying from the beginning is...X is out of G money after this year. His amazing 75M contract only G less than 28M. He is using his best year last year to start the renegotiation. His contract was always a 2 year deal the way it was written. So we would be renegotiationing at the end of this year. X is just being smart about it as he just has his best season. If he tanks this year, I have no doubt he is cut at no cost to the team. The whole illegal and immoral argument is the stupidest I've ever seen posted by others. Pure lack of understanding the NFL, business and basically life in general.

I don't have two COMPLETELY different positions. We don't know what he wants here.

So my position is dependent on if he is simply looking to guarantee some of his base salary or if he wants more money.

There are two possibilities, and I have two different takes on each of them.

And no. His contract is in fact a 5 year deal. The reason the Fins agreed to such a high amount on an "injury prone" player at the time was because of the structure of the entire deal.

With his health concerns back in 2019, he had no business being the highest paid CB. The Fins took a risk on him, and he never would have been offered the total amount he got in a contract that didn't allow the team to cut him if his knee remained a serious issue.

He def had the ability to be a top 5 CB, but the Fins could have been giving 46 mill in guarenteed money to complety damaged goods. That was how it was looking in the season following the signing of that contract.

But again, at the time he wanted that money.

(and I never said anything he's doing is illegal or immoral)

 

[Feverdream]

I stopped reading after name one player wanting to renegotiate after one year. That is where all the haters go wrong. It not about the length of the contract in the NFL. It's the guaranteed money. That had been my point from the start. After this year there is no G money on this most amazing contract every wants him to fulfill. He's simply using his best season last year to jump start the new contract. A 5 year contract with only 2 guaranteed is only a TWO year contract.

It isn't. The other years still exist. They don't disappear because you want them to.

 

[SCOTTY]

It isn't. The other years still exist. They don't disappear because you want them to.

Lol. You guys are the ones that want them to go away...ummm you have been advocating to trade him.
I'd call you a corporate shill but that is giving you way way way to much credit.

 

[Feverdream]

Lol. You guys are the ones that want them to go away...ummm you have been advocating to trade him.
I'd call you a corporate shill but that is giving you way way way to much credit.

Heh! I was a union rep for a couple of decades... but I understand contracts.

 

[ANUFan]

Injury history is a concern which is why I would trade him, but he’s at Ramsay’s level when healthy which he is healthy currently. Of course it seems like whenever guys skip training camp and then start the season they have a higher injury rate. I’ll bet we could get at least a 1st round pick for him.

Maybe we can get a 1st for him. I personally doubt it given the age, injury history, and huge salary. Ultimately a "contender" is the only real options you have out there that might be willin to give you a 1st. Which really is a high 2nd rounder if they're a real contender that goes deep in the playoffs.

 

[Feverdream]

Maybe we can get a 1st for him. I personally doubt it given the age, injury history, and huge salary. Ultimately a "contender" is the only real options you have out there that might be willin to give you a 1st. Which really is a high 2nd rounder if they're a real contender that goes deep in the playoffs.

If this gets to the point where we really have to move him, Dallas would be a good place to start. Their defense was awful last year and their corners are suspect. There are a few other teams that would be interested, but to me, Dallas would be the best bet as Jones tends to take pretty big risks and doesn't mind troublesome players... sort of this generation's Al Davis.

 

[ANUFan]

If this gets to the point where we really have to move him, Dallas would be a good place to start. Their defense was awful last year and their corners are suspect. There are a few other teams that would be interested, but to me, Dallas would be the best bet as Jones tends to take pretty big risks and doesn't mind troublesome players... sort of this generation's Al Davis.

Good Choice! Didn't X play at Baylor? He's from Texas if i recall too.

 

[royalshank]

If we trade him I’ll never understand it. He’s a big part of the reason we are entering a championship window run. That window gets significantly smaller without him. I don’t care how many draft picks we get in return. Only way I trade him is if it’s for Aaron Rodgers lol

 

[Riftur]

Players sign contracts before theirs are up because they might get hurt. Teams sign players before contracts are up to save money. If this is how the players really want it. No more signing contracts until yours is up. Then, if the player gets injured, oh well, if he plays awesome, the team pays more. You can not have it both ways.

 

[ANUFan]

If we trade him I’ll never understand it. He’s a big part of the reason we are entering a championship window run. That window gets significantly smaller without him. I don’t care how many draft picks we get in return. Only way I trade him is if it’s for Aaron Rodgers lol

"If we trade him i'll never understand it?"

Player missed more games than i can count in the past 2-4 seasons. Yet! Teams still takes chance on player and make him highest paid at at his positions. Player proceeds to miss even more time...Yet! Teams still pays him the full weight of his contract for that season.

Player FINALLY plays a full season in forever and has a very good year...Now player wants to hold out and ask for more money?

And your commen is "If we trade him i'll never understand it?"

Unreal!