For the Matt Ryan haters/Beck lovers...

[dlockz]

One could say the same about anything ever written by any writer. I for one will assume he's approaching his profession honestly in that I dont see how he benfits from conjuring falsehoods

People only seem to believe articles that best suit thier arguement. When Armand interviewed Mueller last year and stated that Mueller said that Beck was not rated higher than Quinn, all of a sudden people at major newspapers were making stuff up or confused because it did not fit thier dream of our gm being so much smarter than every other gm in the league. Obviously Ryan is a possibility at number one and to assume othewise makes no sense. Although last year Quinn was a possibility at number one and fell 22 spots.
Since I have seen a few gurus list Ryan as the top pick that means that some people that do this for a living think he is a good possibility.

 

[General Tso]

You say Chris Long. But at what position? Are you saying we're going to spend an overall #1 on a 3-4 DE or a 3-4 OLB? We already have 12 million tied up in Linebacker and that's after we cut Zach. And there's no way we spend 8 OR 9 million a year in cap space on a rookie 3-4 DE. We could get Justin Smith for far less

I'm not sure why Long needs to be penciled in at a specific position in order to be #1 worthy. Whoever drafts him is going to move him around, giving offenses different looks from play to play and series to series, very similar to JT in 2006. If we decide to draft him, it's to be JT's replacement and to provide the blue collar hard working attitude/leadership that Parcells/Sparano love, that his Dad had in his HOF career and that Zach brought to us all of these years.

 

[General Tso]

Well lets play Long at DE. Fair enough. Salary cap wise not a problem. The bigger problem however is he's not a great 3-4 DE. Will he be a good 3-4 DE, yes. Will he be a great 3-4 DE not a chance. If we're going to bypass QB to draft a 3-4 DE then Phillip Merling makes the most sense. He's better at stopping the run, has more upside and has the ability to rush the pass. Problem is the highest anyone has him slotted is 9th. Also we could get Justin Smith for less and he's a proven player.

Again, lets play Long at DE in a 3-4 or 4-3, OLB or you can even slide him inside on the line in a 4-3 alignment from time to time. You draft him to improve your defense from several positions, not just one.

As for the statement that Long "doesn't have a chance of being a great 3-4 DE", that's a little strong don't you think? He was a great 3-4 DE in college, his Dad was a Hall of Fame 3-4 DE and he shows the drive/character to continue to improve. Yet you say he has "no chance"? That's like me saying Ryan has "no chance" of being a top 12 QB in the NFL. My opinion/evaulation is that Ryan will be mediocre at best, but I'll certainly concede that there's a chance of him being much better than what I think he'll be.

 

[2413fanphins]

I'm not sure why Long needs to be penciled in at a specific position in order to be #1 worthy. Whoever drafts him is going to move him around, giving offenses different looks from play to play and series to series, very similar to JT in 2006. If we decide to draft him, it's to be JT's replacement and to provide the blue collar hard working attitude/leadership that Parcells/Sparano love, that his Dad had in his HOF career and that Zach brought to us all of these years.

well I would certainly be against drafting chris long as Jason taylors replacement. That just means that when taylor leaves, long takes his place and we need a DE again.

I don't think it's a bad idea to draft him. I'm still not 100% sure we are playing in a 3-4, it's likely, but is it set in stone?

if it is set in stone, I would rather draft dorsey to play NT. Yes I said NT.
The NT sets up the 3-4, you need a good one to allow your DE's and LB to accell.

chris long is going to be good, but just because his dad was HOF means nothing for chris' career.

and imo... it is a big deal to know whether he will play DE or OLB, because we have needs at both.

can't wait for the combine.

 

[Fullerboy]

well I would certainly be against drafting chris long as Jason taylors replacement. That just means that when taylor leaves, long takes his place and we need a DE again.

I don't think it's a bad idea to draft him. I'm still not 100% sure we are playing in a 3-4, it's likely, but is it set in stone?

if it is set in stone, I would rather draft dorsey to play NT. Yes I said NT.
The NT sets up the 3-4, you need a good one to allow your DE's and LB to accell.

chris long is going to be good, but just because his dad was HOF means nothing for chris' career.

and imo... it is a big deal to know whether he will play DE or OLB, because we have needs at both.

can't wait for the combine.

I feel the same bud.:wink:

 

[General Tso]

well I would certainly be against drafting chris long as Jason taylors replacement. That just means that when taylor leaves, long takes his place and we need a DE again.

I don't think it's a bad idea to draft him. I'm still not 100% sure we are playing in a 3-4, it's likely, but is it set in stone?

if it is set in stone, I would rather draft dorsey to play NT. Yes I said NT.
The NT sets up the 3-4, you need a good one to allow your DE's and LB to accell.

chris long is going to be good, but just because his dad was HOF means nothing for chris' career.

and imo... it is a big deal to know whether he will play DE or OLB, because we have needs at both.

can't wait for the combine.

There's a good chance JT won't be a Miami Dolphin come September, perhaps as early as this month. We need to replace him within a year and Chris is the perfect guy to do it IMO. If we have needs at DE and OLB, which we do, then that's good... because Chris can fill both of those needs from play to play and series to series. Again, he is not going to play only one position, he will play several.

BTW... the only reason I bring up Howie is to add to the evidence that there's certainly a chance that Long can be great, contrary to what another poster stated. Chris is very much in the mold of his father, in nearly all aspects of his character and game. Add that to a stellar college career and being coached by one of Parcell's most trusted friends who said that Chris is the 2nd best football player he's ever coached on any level, and you've clearly got a stronger case for Long being great (and going to Miami at #1) than you do with Ryan.

 

[Boomer]

One could say the same about anything ever written by any writer. I for one will assume he's approaching his profession honestly in that I dont see how he benfits from conjuring falsehoods

OK whatever.

 

[CRAZYDOLFAN305]

http://justanotherdumb.com/byu/

Look at the release, the perfection of his mechanics, the smooth delivery, the deadly accuracy, the perfect ball placement, throws on the run, pocket awareness, defense manipulator especially the safeties, able to escape pressure, goes through his progression effortlessly. I can go on and on. Every time, beck has a clear pocket, he delivers the ball perfectly. With time if we are patient enough there's no reason within the next two years the game doesn't completely slowdown for Beck, and he starts to do the same things he did his senior year in college.

 

[2413fanphins]

There's a good chance JT won't be a Miami Dolphin come September, perhaps as early as this month. We need to replace him within a year and Chris is the perfect guy to do it IMO. If we have needs at DE and OLB, which we do, then that's good... because Chris can fill both of those needs from play to play and series to series. Again, he is not going to play only one position, he will play several.

BTW... the only reason I bring up Howie is to add to the evidence that there's certainly a chance that Long can be great, contrary to what another poster stated. Chris is very much in the mold of his father, in nearly all aspects of his character and game. Add that to a stellar college career and being coached by one of Parcell's most trusted friends who said that Chris is the 2nd best football player he's ever coached on any level, and you've clearly got a stronger case for Long being great (and going to Miami at #1) than you do with Ryan.

Your missing my point...

first of all if taylor is gone as well, which I don't think he will be than fine. Drafting chris long makes great sense.

your argument for him playing multiple positions is fine, except for my argument that it opens up more holes. If he plays OLB, were short a DE.
IF he plays DE, were short a OLB. Just because a guy can jump from postition to position on a play by play basis, doesn't mean he fills two needs with one selection... see what I mean???

Is several... more than two positions to you, because it is to me. What else can this kid do? I realize people get hyped up, but to say he can play multiple positions seems sketchy to me. I for one, think he will play one position, and that is DE.. and he will be asked to bulk to play that... IMO

I still say that if we are switching to a 3-4, we HAVE to be solid at NT.
and that means dorsey goes #1. 3-4 Defenses don't work without solid NT play, and if we don't have one, we are in for a long battle.

I don't know of many NT's available in the draft, and we could argue all day about who is a true NT and blah blah blah, but I would bet we could find a serviceable DE in later rounds, whereas a great NT is going to have to be found earlier....

just my 2 cents...

 

[General Tso]

Your missing my point...

first of all if taylor is gone as well, which I don't think he will be than fine. Drafting chris long makes great sense.

your argument for him playing multiple positions is fine, except for my argument that it opens up more holes. If he plays OLB, were short a DE.
IF he plays DE, were short a OLB. Just because a guy can jump from postition to position on a play by play basis, doesn't mean he fills two needs with one selection... see what I mean???

Is several... more than two positions to you, because it is to me. What else can this kid do? I realize people get hyped up, but to say he can play multiple positions seems sketchy to me. I for one, think he will play one position, and that is DE.. and he will be asked to bulk to play that... IMO

I still say that if we are switching to a 3-4, we HAVE to be solid at NT.
and that means dorsey goes #1. 3-4 Defenses don't work without solid NT play, and if we don't have one, we are in for a long battle.

I don't know of many NT's available in the draft, and we could argue all day about who is a true NT and blah blah blah, but I would bet we could find a serviceable DE in later rounds, whereas a great NT is going to have to be found earlier....

just my 2 cents...

If we don't trade JT now then we'll get nothing for him next year, just like Zach... so since we're not making the playoffs in '08 now is the time to get something for JT.

Like Dorsey, Long is only 1 man so of course he'll only fill one need on any specific play, never said that wasn't the case. You're right that I'm missing your point though, I don't see how Long playing multiple positions "creates more holes" on this defense.

 

[2413fanphins]

who's gonna play DE when long is in at OLB?


conversely, who is gonna play OLB if long is in at DE?

that is the best I can describe my opinion to you, if you still don't understand let's just move on I know of no other way to word it.

trading jason taylor means we need two DE's.

I don't see us trading him, we have enough holes the way it is, we can't fill them all this fast.

 

[adamprez2003]

I'm not sure why Long needs to be penciled in at a specific position in order to be #1 worthy. Whoever drafts him is going to move him around, giving offenses different looks from play to play and series to series, very similar to JT in 2006. If we decide to draft him, it's to be JT's replacement and to provide the blue collar hard working attitude/leadership that Parcells/Sparano love, that his Dad had in his HOF career and that Zach brought to us all of these years.

I really want to see Chris Long's combine. I and many others are assuming he can play LB but I really want to see his numbers at the combine to make sure he's as versatile as we all project.

 

[General Tso]

who's gonna play DE when long is in at OLB?

conversely, who is gonna play OLB if long is in at DE?

that is the best I can describe my opinion to you, if you still don't understand let's just move on I know of no other way to word it.

trading jason taylor means we need two DE's.

I don't see us trading him, we have enough holes the way it is, we can't fill them all this fast.

Who's going to play DE or OLB if we draft Dorsey? Like JT, Long allows us to switch up what defense we're running and we can substitute several guys at several positions as Long moves around. Plug in the tape from 2006, having someone that's able to move around like that is quite effective.

Not trading JT means we have a highly paid, aging star that will possibly be a little grumpy, though still productive, hanging around a rebuilding team while we win 5-6 games in 2008. Then in 2009 he'll be released for nothing. Trading him likely means a 2nd round pick that can turn into a solid starter for us for many years to come. No brainer IMO.

 

[RickyWilliams]

The line Trent Green played behind was not the same line Beck played behind. May have been the same people but the blocking was night and day. This alone makes it almost impossible to judge what we have in Beck. A lot of people are quick to judge this guy based on his performance this season. The one and only thing that I didn't like what I saw from Beck was the amount of fumbles he had. But even so I can't hold a rookie accountable for fumbling the ball when he has a D-lineman running straight in front of him while he's still in his 3 step drop. I will be watching Beck closely this year though and do look forward to seeing what he can bring.

 

[adamprez2003]

Again, lets play Long at DE in a 3-4 or 4-3, OLB or you can even slide him inside on the line in a 4-3 alignment from time to time. You draft him to improve your defense from several positions, not just one.

As for the statement that Long "doesn't have a chance of being a great 3-4 DE", that's a little strong don't you think? He was a great 3-4 DE in college, his Dad was a Hall of Fame 3-4 DE and he shows the drive/character to continue to improve. Yet you say he has "no chance"? That's like me saying Ryan has "no chance" of being a top 12 QB in the NFL. My opinion/evaulation is that Ryan will be mediocre at best, but I'll certainly concede that there's a chance of him being much better than what I think he'll be.

If he can play that AJ Duhe role of all purpose front seven guy, then I would agree his value would improve. I'm not sure that's what his role would be here but if it is then it would definitely be a plus.

The reason I said he doesnt stand a chance at being a great 3-4 DE is he doesnt have that special explosion you look for. His game seems to me to be more about unstoppable hustle and determination. He doesnt have the greatest size ratio for the position. I'm not an expert on figuring out whether people can grow and how much they can put on without losing a step. But he should play at 285/290 ideally. As a pure DE I think Merling has a much higher ceiling and they play at very similar levels right now. I think after the first year of technique training and strength conditioning the DE Long will be in 2009 is the same one you'll see in 2012 whereas someone like Merling could keep getting better for two or three years before he peaks. Just my opinion but that's my reasoning behind the statement