Full AFC East Grades (Plus NY Giants)

[finsfanjay13]

If that is the case then its almost to disheartening to consider. We hired Brian Daboll in mid-January. They had 5 months to get it together.

We haven't had free agency. We haven't had trades. We haven't had workouts. We have only had the draft and, lets face it, we did nothing to surprising or out of character there. This was, without a doubt, the easiest offseason to take care of problems like this, there was simply nothing else happening! So why wasn't this taken care of?

I believe it was Mr. Magoo who said it in the main thread concerning this topic: Tony Sparano would not accept this excuse from one of his players. Why should he be able to get away with a blunder this bad?

There are certain parts of a playbook you can put together regarding current players under contract, but don't you think that without knowing who is going to be drafted, it's hard to put together a viable playbook that plays to the strength of your players?

If we are only talking about passing plays, I agree, it's inexcusable to not have those prepared. However, what about running plays? They don't have a true starting running back under contract, and until they know who may be the man for that role, they can't really draw up specific plays. Surely you don't want them to draw up specific plays for Lex Hilliard, right?

In short: I understand why they couldn't hand out a *complete* playbook. However, passing plays should have been signed, sealed and delivered.

 

[hoops]

i agree with slimm...ireland and companys draft strategy was nothing short of absurd...

 

[finsfanjay13]

i agree with slimm...ireland and companys draft strategy was nothing short of absurd...

You guys seem to have a different definition of absurd than I.

Absurd would have been drafting another DE, NT, scrub LB, FS, and maybe a long snapper.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

You guys seem to have a different definition of absurd than I.

Absurd would have been drafting another DE, NT, scrub LB, FS, and maybe a long snapper.

It's absurd to draft an interior offensive lineman with the 15th overall pick in the draft. Even more absurd to draft one with the 15th overall pick in the draft to play center that has the most difficult time snapping the football of any center prospect of the last 20 years.

It's absurd to trade up for a running back, after you've already passed up the best one in the draft. It's absurd to trade away those picks that you could've used to draft a quarterback, and address the offensive line, for a running back who was going to fall to you anyway. Even if he didn't, there were going to be running backs just as good, or of equal value that were on the board anyway if Thomas wasn't there.

There's nothing about Daniel Thomas that was worth trading up for. His ability and experience in the Wildcat would be the only thing that could possibly make them want to trade up for this running back... which is absurd.

Jeff Ireland and Tony Sparano don't have a quarterback in case you haven't noticed. They could've had both the best running back and the best passer in this draft in Dolphin uniforms, and STILL kept all of their picks to address the offensive line and receiver positions.



You can treat the draft 2 ways:

1. Use it to acquire TALENT

2. Use it to fill needs



This front office doesn't use the draft to acquire TALENT, it's not their philosophy. They use the draft to fill needs and reach for players. Among many, many other things, that's why they'll never get past being a .500 or so football team.

 

[finsfanjay13]

It's absurd to draft an interior offensive lineman with the 15th overall pick in the draft. Even more absurd to draft one with the 15th overall pick in the draft to play center that has the most difficult time snapping the football of any center prospect of the last 20 years.

If you read my previous post, I already said that I wasn't for drafting Pouncey #15 overall over Amukamara. But I was for them drafting Pouncey over Ingram.

It's absurd to trade up for a running back, after you've already passed up the best one in the draft. It's absurd to trade away those picks that you could've used to draft a quarterback, and address the offensive line, for a running back who was going to fall to you anyway. Even if he didn't, there were going to be running backs just as good, or of equal value that were on the board anyway if Thomas wasn't there.

Again, I don't find it a coincidence that the Patriots drafted Stevan Ridley at #73 overall. This was a situational decision. If Leshoure was still sitting around the bottom of round 2 and Vereen and Thomas were both available, I'd be willing to bet they wouldn't have made the trade. Besides, to say "who was going to fall to you anyway" is anecdotal at best, and "absurd" at worst.

There's nothing about Daniel Thomas that was worth trading up for. His ability and experience in the Wildcat would be the only thing that could possibly make them want to trade up for this running back... which is absurd.

Subjective. And sometimes subjective opinions are "absurd".

Jeff Ireland and Tony Sparano don't have a quarterback in case you haven't noticed. They could've had both the best running back and the best passer in this draft in Dolphin uniforms, and STILL kept all of their picks to address the offensive line and receiver positions.

Mallett was drafted at #74 overall. The Dolphins would have had a selection at #79 overall if they didn't trade it away. Tell me again how they could have gotten the best passer in this draft again if they stayed in their current slot? Do I think they should have drafted Mallett when they traded up into the second round? Yes. But your statement is incorrect, maybe even "absurd".

You can treat the draft 2 ways:

1. Use it to acquire TALENT

2. Use it to fill needs

3. Use it to acquire talent AND needs, which is why I'm not saying this draft is great, but it's not "absurd".

 

[Spesh]

There are certain parts of a playbook you can put together regarding current players under contract, but don't you think that without knowing who is going to be drafted, it's hard to put together a viable playbook that plays to the strength of your players?

If we are only talking about passing plays, I agree, it's inexcusable to not have those prepared. However, what about running plays? They don't have a true starting running back under contract, and until they know who may be the man for that role, they can't really draw up specific plays. Surely you don't want them to draw up specific plays for Lex Hilliard, right?

In short: I understand why they couldn't hand out a *complete* playbook. However, passing plays should have been signed, sealed and delivered.

They drafted a center and a running back. There shouldnt be anything special about the center position in Daboll's playbook that would require changing it for Mike Pouncey. For Thomas, he has a similar skill set that Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams had. Pop in gametape and plan like you were for them, because had we missed on Thomas im certain we would have tried to resign at least one of them. We still might.

Unless that back is Chris Johnson, running back is not a position that you need to make brand new plays for. Even for Johnson, 90% of the plays drawn up are going to be the same for any back in the league. Maybe a few more screen passes and swing out runs would be added, but thats about it. Running back is a system position now adays, so they should have sent out the system that would be run.

And you did hint on it. At the very least, send out a dang incomplete playbook. Get the players something, anything.

 

[SammySmif]

Daniel Thomas fell all the way to the bottom of the 2nd round. Own up to it. Admit you were wrong. Clearly Daniel Thomas sucks, otherwise he'd have not fallen to the very end of the 2nd round. Admit it. You were wrong.

This post you made is such a failure that it is laughable. The facts are that you are emotional and upset because the Fins did not draft Mallet. I understand you have a lot of pride on the line, since you make threads in your name and hate to be wrong. I get it.

What was I wrong about? Nothing..I never said the Fins would draft Thomas. I said he is going to be great for us, and we shall see. The reason we traded up is because the Packers were going to take him. I understand your sarcasm, but your logic is flawed..probably due to you getting way too angry about this.

I would rather draft an interior lineman in round 1 over a runningback. Especially a guy like Pouncey who has all the skills to be a great Center for us for years. Especially since our Oline needed a C.

You are the guy who gave the thomas pick a D-. If you write something like that, expect to be challenged on it. If you can't handle it, don't write it. But to say he is a D- pick just makes you look petty.

 

[ckparrothead]

Let me chime in here for a second..


I think most people already knew these guys were going to draft based on what gave them the best chance to squeak out another year of cashing a paycheck... that's no surprise.

I like most of the players Miami drafted, I think they got some really good football players and addressed critical needs. However, I don't agree with where or how they chose to address them the first 2 days of the draft.

Everyone that didn't want Mark Ingram at #15, didn't want him because he was "slow". He wasn't the "fast", "explosive", "big play" back that they think Miami needed. Well, neither is Daniel Thomas.

If you're going to take a 4.6 running back, at least take the best one in the draft when he's sitting right there for you to take him. I'd rather have seen them spend the 15th pick on Ingram, rather than trading up and basically pissing away draft picks for Daniel Thomas.

They could've used those picks to address the offensive line, as really good prospects were available all throughout those rounds.


Furthermore, there's no excuse for passing up a legitimate quarterback prospect several times if you indeed do "like him and think he's going to be a really good quarterback".... as Ireland suggested.

Their strategy and plan of attack in this draft was absurd, regardless of the players they selected. Miami just didn't have a good feel for this draft at all.

I was thinking the same thing about Mark Ingram. If you're going to go with a slower back, Ingram is the king. You go with him at #15 overall, trade up for Rodney Hudson or Stefan Wisniewski later, I'd even be more comfortable with that than what Miami did.

But the bottom line is, this front office will be gone. So, I guess it doesn't matter.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

If you read my previous post, I already said that I wasn't for drafting Pouncey #15 overall over Amukamara. But I was for them drafting Pouncey over Ingram.



Again, I don't find it a coincidence that the Patriots drafted Stevan Ridley at #73 overall. This was a situational decision. If Leshoure was still sitting around the bottom of round 2 and Vereen and Thomas were both available, I'd be willing to bet they wouldn't have made the trade. Besides, to say "who was going to fall to you anyway" is anecdotal at best, and "absurd" at worst.



Subjective. And sometimes subjective opinions are "absurd".



Mallett was drafted at #74 overall. The Dolphins would have had a selection at #79 overall if they didn't trade it away. Tell me again how they could have gotten the best passer in this draft again if they stayed in their current slot? Do I think they should have drafted Mallett when they traded up into the second round? Yes. But your statement is incorrect, maybe even "absurd".



3. Use it to acquire talent AND needs, which is why I'm not saying this draft is great, but it's not "absurd".

We just disagree on the Ingram/Pouncey/Amukamara front... Amukamara can't do for Miami's defense what Ingram could do for Miami's offense.

Selecting Ingram would've been BOTH acquiring talent AND filling a need, Amukamara wouldn't.


All of the running backs weren't going to come off the board between #62 and Miami's pick at #79. You don't find it strange that Ireland was able to pull off a trade for the running back, but couldn't manage to trade back up into the 3rd round for Ryan Mallett? I damn sure do..

It's because he didn't have the ammunition to pull off a fair trade for Mallett after he had already traded up for Daniel Thomas. If anything, he had to make a half-assed attempt at trading up for Mallett with an offer that he pretty much knew any team with a competent front office wouldn't fall for. But at least he can say "I tried"...


If he would've used that trade up to #62 for Ryan Mallett after taking Ingram at #15, he still would've had picks to address the offensive line and wide receiver... he would still end up with Edmond Gates (which was a great pick). Except he'd actually have a quarterback to throw him the football.

Their draft strategy was absurd... but surely FinFanJay will see it differently. Shocker there...

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

But the bottom line is, this front office will be gone. So, I guess it doesn't matter.

Not soon enough. I think that absolutely matters..

 

[ckparrothead]

Let's say they did get Mallett. He still wouldn't have a playbook right now, and maybe not for the next three months, because of this front office. So, what does it matter. Might as well just wait for the next regime to get here and let them focus on the quarterback they are convinced is their guy.

 

[ckparrothead]

Incidentally part of me wonders if NE isn't going to just turn around when the lockout is done and offer the Dolphins Ryan Mallett for next year's 2nd rounder.

 

[finsfanjay13]

Their draft strategy was absurd... but surely FinFanJay will see it differently. Shocker there...

Interesting. I didn't know that I had the reputation as being a Dolphins apologist. To the contrary, actually. I supported the Dolphins canning Sparano for Harbaugh. I also supported the Dolphins throwing the proverbial bank to Cowher. Futhermore, I supported drafting Ryan Mallett. However, none of it happened. I didn't know it was a requirement to be a pessimist at all times and if I disagree with your theory, I'm now a person who sucks the Ireland teet.

You learn something new every day, I suppose.

 

[finsfanjay13]

Incidentally part of me wonders if NE isn't going to just turn around when the lockout is done and offer the Dolphins Ryan Mallett for next year's 2nd rounder.

This is exactly what will happen. Maybe not to Miami, but New England drafted Mallett for two reasons:

1.) Insurance policy in case Brady gets injured.
2.) To "Cassel-ize" Mallett.

Unless Brady gets injured, Mallett doesn't start in New England. But he'll learn from one of the best and catapult his value to another team for better than a third round pick.

To be more clear: I don't think it happens right after the lock-out, but I do think that Mallett will be traded within 3 years.

 

[phintim]

I'll ignore the other points and focus on this one. How is this a comforting thing? Why is everyone cool with the fact that our front office is more interested in saving their own ***** then improving our team?

If they had been more willing to take chances in the past to improve our team, they might not be in this position in the first place. If they hadn't been so concerned with saving their job, that job might not be in jeopardy now. Its this sort of self-destructive short sightedness that got them into this situation. To have any success in the future, this regime cannot be allowed to keep doing this.

As well, if you feel Ryan Mallett has the talent to justify taking him in the third round, then he also has enough talent to justify taking in the second round. There is no in between for quarterbacks.

No one said anything about comforting I said logical in my post. Big difference. Yes there is some rationial behind Irelands decision. Really when you dig down yourself you should be able to understand that too if you have a job you really want to keep. If your butt was on the line and you really wanted to keep your job you would do what ever short term it takes to make your boss happy right now. While in the meantime it hopefully buys you enough time while he is happy to figure out what it is going to take to keep your job in the long run. Winning right now is what is going to make Ross happy and filling those stadium seats. A rookie QB normally does not spell out win right now it spells lose right now and win for the future hopefully.

Sure your right if they had won more last year instead of lost more their outlook would have been different this year. Are you blaming their drafts, Tony Sporano, injuries? In the rear view mirror Tony is to blame IMO because of the OL play and not having a better handle on his OL coach and ST coach last year. Of course there is some hope IMO because the year before that the defense was this issue going into last years draft and he fired the fired the defensive coordinator hired Mike Nolan and what was the weakness of the team is now the strength. Could it happen again maybe but probably not because Daboll is not Nolan but never say never. Do I blame Ireland not so much because for the most part he has gone out and found the talent. Some of it has been short lived such as Simley etc and he has missed on some darts on the draft such as Pat White but I have been playing the phins draft game for a long long time and he has been better than almost any we have had around and better than most in the NFL. Darn tootin I would enjoy the Pats draft with all those picks more than the phins and have been studying that for a long time. For some reason only the Pats are really doing it. Why not the rest of the NFL. If you know why spit it out because that would make you the #2 GM in the NFL IMO.

As far as Ryan Mallet I will tell you why I think they passed on him in this draft and why he would currently be a bad fit for this team. I am not saying he is a bad pick or will not be a great QB. Mallet with Brandon Marshall would spell doomsday with this team. Thats just my opinion. Marshall needs a veteran QB on the sideline to keep him under control. Marshall has and would undermine the entire coaching staff to get his way and nothing he would like better than to get that rookie on the field so he could continue running the team and making sure he demands enough passes thrown his way to pad his stats.

If Tony S. happens to share that same view then he has little choice but to pass on Mallett if he can because long term his incentive is feeding his family and keeping his job. Your point I would agree is right on regarding if Mallett is the right QB what is the difference between the 1st, 2nd or 3rd round and I agree with that sediment and I believe if you nailed down Tony S he would too.

Ck put a question out there and I wanted to address it. He had Mallet way high on his board and Daniel Thomas not very high and when they passed on Mallet on the way to drafting Daniel Thomas it pissed him off and it just shows. No body on this board probably buts in half the time doing the research that Ck does so it is understandable. BUTT when after the draft 32 GM's with mutli million dollars budgets disagree with CK until the 3rd round and other highly rated draftniks rate Daniel Thomas much higher after the draft than CK then yep CK is going to get some negative feedback or hommerism as he calls it.
Tough thing this draft (predicition business) when your right your the heroe when your wrong you have to deal with being the goat for awhile.