Good News-Bad News (Dion Jordan vs. Jon Martin) | Page 10 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Good News-Bad News (Dion Jordan vs. Jon Martin)

Did he say that everyone is going to be juicy in that game? He might have said juiced. I hope he said juicy.
 
i don't know if coples has been asked to lose weight or not but i have some issues with how effective he will be as a pass rusher in a wide 9 look...that's a lot of space with a guy who's not the most explosive...
 
Have to see how it pans out but when I saw him lined up wide at UNC that was some of his best tape and he did it more during Senior Bowl practices and game and looked good.

Don't know what the guy is going to do in coverage but he's so lengthy he'll be imposing out there.

It may be more of a symbolic move, as his duties and activities on the field don't end up looking very linebacker-like.
 
yeah he was pretty darn effective looking at the senior bowl wide...gonna have to hide him in coverage...flats and underneath zone drops...and i bet there will be some issues in the flats with the cod...too much space
 
Doesn't nearly every pass rusher look better from a wide-9? It's the run defense that goes to hell.
 
I really believe we'll sign at least one more o-linemen after all the major cuts start happening and we'll figure out who the best options are from there.
 
ckparrothead said:
Since when are guys like Trevor Scott, Rob Ninkovich, a rookie Chandler Jones, a Jason Babin who had just been claimed off waivers, a Kyle Moore, Jermaine Cunningham, Justin Francis...since when are those guys "daunting"? The only dauting matchup was Aldon Smith. And that matchup ended up every bit of the disgusting volley of lowlights for Sportscenter that it was predicted to be.

You can't just isolate a guy's one good game and say, see...he's going to play like that all 16 games now. It doesn't work like that.

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Yeah but it's essentially still a pass rusher spot. All they're doing is deciding they want Coples to be rushing from a wider initial position and I can't blame them for that. He's looked pretty good from wide-9 type alignments.
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Never said look at one game and put that out as 16 games but what he could be. If you can do it once you can hopefully replicate that. The guys aren't daunting but two games against the Pats scheme can be. The entire online sucked in the 2nd game don't just blame Martin. Again you are trusting just PFF and their decision on pressures, they also have a sack to Jake when it was obvious when watching the play it wasn't his assignment. Babin has never been a bad player, people get put on waivers for different reasons all the time. All Im saying is you want to throw him under the bus but the last five games of the year he didn't play as bad as those numbers point out. He gave up one pressure and graded out a +2.6 in the run game versus the Bills. He gave up 6 hurries in the 2nd pats game but so did Garner and so did everyone else. PFF doesn't put in their stats that Pouncey actually sucked in that game versus Wilfork and cause the pocket to collapse but gave the pressure versus Martin. They aren't perfect either. Again Im not claiming he's a pro bowler but PFF isn't perfect in their scoring which is where you are getting your data.
 
Canadi-Phin said:
Never said look at one game and put that out as 16 games but what he could be. If you can do it once you can hopefully replicate that. The guys aren't daunting but two games against the Pats scheme can be. The entire online sucked in the 2nd game don't just blame Martin. Again you are trusting just PFF and their decision on pressures, they also have a sack to Jake when it was obvious when watching the play it wasn't his assignment. Babin has never been a bad player, people get put on waivers for different reasons all the time. All Im saying is you want to throw him under the bus but the last five games of the year he didn't play as bad as those numbers point out. He gave up one pressure and graded out a +2.6 in the run game versus the Bills. He gave up 6 hurries in the 2nd pats game but so did Garner and so did everyone else. PFF doesn't put in their stats that Pouncey actually sucked in that game versus Wilfork and cause the pocket to collapse but gave the pressure versus Martin. They aren't perfect either. Again Im not claiming he's a pro bowler but PFF isn't perfect in their scoring which is where you are getting your data.
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He gets put on waivers because hes a bad player.

He has only succeeded in a single scheme: the wide 9. Hes ineffective for every other scheme in football. Thats been proven at this point. The reason he left Tennessee for Philly(his second trip to Philly) two years ago was because his defensive line coach got hired by them. When a frantic Andy Reid decided to make some changes to fire up his team, he cut Babin because he knew any coaching changes he made would make him utterly useless.

Why the Jags have kept him is beyond me. Maybe Gus Bradley thinks he will work in his aggressive defense hes installing. I dont know. But i dont think we should hang our opinions on what the Jags do. They did just draft a right tackle with the second overall pick. They passed on Jordan, who would have fit Bradley's designs damn near perfectly. Not to mention give them their first young pass rusher in years. Amazingly, for a team thats so devoid of talent, the Jags largely just spun the tires this offseason. Just amazing.
 
Spesh said:
He gets put on waivers because hes a bad player.

He has only succeeded in a single scheme: the wide 9. Hes ineffective for every other scheme in football. Thats been proven at this point. The reason he left Tennessee for Philly(his second trip to Philly) two years ago was because his defensive line coach got hired by them. When a frantic Andy Reid decided to make some changes to fire up his team, he cut Babin because he knew any coaching changes he made would make him utterly useless.

Why the Jags have kept him is beyond me. Maybe Gus Bradley thinks he will work in his aggressive defense hes installing. I dont know. But i dont think we should hang our opinions on what the Jags do. They did just draft a right tackle with the second overall pick. They passed on Jordan, who would have fit Bradley's designs damn near perfectly. Not to mention give them their first young pass rusher in years. Amazingly, for a team thats so devoid of talent, the Jags largely just spun the tires this offseason. Just amazing.
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Bad player? Jesus he had 7 sacks last year, the year before 18. Lets not act like those are bad stats. He had 12.5 the year before. Last time I checked we would have loved to have another guy doing that across from Wake. You can claim its the scheme but getting 37.5 sacks in 3 years is good football. He is an accomplished passrusher. That was the point I was making. I'm hoping Martin will be average and give Ryan enough time from the left side. I don't think it's as bad as everyone is saying but it also better not be.

I'm glad Jordan is doing his daily sack thing against all the LTs on our roster or I'd be even more nervous and a little less hopeful.
 
You're ignoring his entire point. 18 the year before? Yes, when he was playing from the wide 9. And guess what he played mostly last year when he got 7 sacks? The wide 9!
 
Canadi-Phin said:
Bad player? Jesus he had 7 sacks last year, the year before 18. Lets not act like those are bad stats. He had 12.5 the year before. Last time I checked we would have loved to have another guy doing that across from Wake. You can claim its the scheme but getting 37.5 sacks in 3 years is good football. He is an accomplished passrusher. That was the point I was making. I'm hoping Martin will be average and give Ryan enough time from the left side. I don't think it's as bad as everyone is saying but it also better not be.

I'm glad Jordan is doing his daily sack thing against all the LTs on our roster or I'd be even more nervous and a little less hopeful.
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Yes, and 35 of those 37.5 came from a single scheme. Before he hit the wide 9 scheme, he had 17.5 from 2004-2010, not to mention playing for 5 teams in 5 seasons. Thats not good. Hes a bad player who plays well in very limited settings. Anytime any coaching change is made, its pretty much time to throw him to the curb because hes shown he cannot play outside that scheme. In 10 seasons hes had 2 good years.

Numbers dont tell the entire story. Jason Babin is not a good player. To say hes an accomplished pass rusher is an extreme stretch, but not as much as suggesting hes never been bad.
 
I gotta say, after reading this whole thread, it's looking fairly poor for J Martin's case. Of course I'm the eternal optimist and hope he can at least go from 94th percentile to about 50-60th, but that's not reasonably expected.

What I'm curious about (CK, or anybody else who can access the stats), is how much more effective were pass rushers against him in his 5 games, than they were against the rest of the LTs they faced that season overall? Just another tidbit for the analysis soup.
 
where's th'fish said:
Doesn't nearly every pass rusher look better from a wide-9? It's the run defense that goes to hell.
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not if the guys not all that explosive that wide...put jared odrick out there who's played end in a 43 for us last year and see how effective it is...coples is a bit more quick twitch and more able to close than odrick but he's still not a burst or explosion guy...that's a lot of space for a 285 lb end to have to work in...
 
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