Good News-Bad News (Dion Jordan vs. Jon Martin)

[Locke]

I feel like we need enduro in this thread to tell us what Ireland's view on the situation is. Unleash the enduro...!

 

[JTC111]

Yeah, he was bad last year. Even more of a reason for me to believe that they wouldn't be sticking with Martin at LT if he wasn't making improvements.

Or they're stuck with Martin because Plan A, B, and C fell through.

...if J. Martin cannot play the LT spot than Tannehill could be running for his life.

Maybe we're going to hear a lot of "...and Tannehill rolls to his right."

 

[Canadi-Phin]

I see all the stats that are being put out there but we haven't taken into account the quality of players the kid played against. 49ers, Aldon and Justin had what 500 sacks last year. Pats twice with Belichek scheming blitzes to that side both games, Jags Babin isn't a bad player and tricky Vet, and the Bills, Dareus had their two sacks which I believe came from the DT spot. The last game of the year our entire Oline played like crap.

I'm not saying the kid is a world beater but he face some tough competition in those 5 games. He arguably had the tougher games to play then Jake. I wish I could see all the games again and read PFF's description of what a pressure is because I have done that before and they give pressures to guys when the QB slides his feet.

A quick reminder, when no one wanted to re-sign Jake last year I wanted too. BUt I still think this kid can play, I think what we are seeing is a awesome young DE talent with Jordan and vast improveed Vernon. Hopefully that is the case.

 

[ckparrothead]

This is why everyone was scratching their head when we moved up and then passed on Lane Johnson. I love Dion Jordan, BUT if J. Martin cannot play the LT spot than Tannehill could be running for his life.

I could see both sides of that argument though. I love Lane Johnson. And I really liked Dion Jordan coming out. I had Lane a little above Dion on the vertical rankings, but not a lot.

On the one side you say hey we've already got Cam Wake and you could even argue we could've had John Abraham for a relatively inexpensive deal, and then we try and get a new pass rusher after this year, meanwhile we've got Lane Johnson protecting the franchise.

On the other side you could say listen it sucks not having a franchise left tackle but if Ryan Tannehill is the QB we want him to be it won't matter longer term, and Dion Jordan lets you not only turn quarterbacks you currently face into scared turf stains, he will also give you a smooth transition when Cameron Wake starts to come down and eventually retires.

Both arguments are valid.

Thing is I don't think taking care of 2nd pass rusher and Left Tackle were either-or propositions. You easily could've done both. The Dolphins chose not to and they're going to live with the results of that choice, for better or worse.

 

[jason_taylor]

If it isn't Martin at LT- who will it be, I still can not believe that they did not honestly address the LT need this year. OL concerns have been every year, why wasn't it addressed in an aggressive way
it is truly mind boggling.

IMO i cant belive with the money we still have , that if we didnt think Martin could handle the LT we would have picked up atleast a one year guy until we address that poss , i know the F.O. isnt overlooking this problem , and they know wheather or not if Martin was able to play the poss , so i just cant see us NOT doing something about the LT when we knowed it is a prob , either Jordan is a beast already at the DE poss or Martin is awful ,but if its the latest , i just cant see why we didnt do something about it with the money we still have it wouldnt have been a prob pickin up a player , this will be on the front office if we go into the Season with this prob ,because we have they money and there were a few LTs still ava at the time.

 

[ckparrothead]

I see all the stats that are being put out there but we haven't taken into account the quality of players the kid played against. 49ers, Aldon and Justin had what 500 sacks last year. Pats twice with Belichek scheming blitzes to that side both games, Jags Babin isn't a bad player and tricky Vet, and the Bills, Dareus had their two sacks which I believe came from the DT spot. The last game of the year our entire Oline played like crap.

I'm not saying the kid is a world beater but he face some tough competition in those 5 games. He arguably had the tougher games to play then Jake. I wish I could see all the games again and read PFF's description of what a pressure is because I have done that before and they give pressures to guys when the QB slides his feet.

I don't buy this argument at all. And I'll tell you why.

Jonathan Martin allowed pressures to guys like Trevor Scott, Rob Ninkovich, Aldon Smith, Jason Babin, Kyle Moore, Chandler Jones, Justin Francis and Jermaine Cunningham.

I'm sorry, but that is NOT a pool of players that are way above normal for this league.

This year he will face: Paul Kruger, Barkevious Mingo, Jabaal Sheard, Bjoern Werner, Robert Mathis, Osi Umenyiora, Will Smith, Terrell Suggs, Pernell McPhee, Courtney Upshaw, Mario Williams, Manny Lawson, Jerry Hughes, Chandler Jones, Jamie Collins, Marcus Benard, Michael Johnson, DaQuan Bowers, Adrian Clayborn, Dwight Freeney, Greg Hardy, Quinton Coples, Antwan Barnes and Jarvis Jones.

That's no cake walk. Trust me. Paul Kruger, Robert Mathis, Osi Umenyiora, Will Smith, Terrell Suggs, Pernell McPhee, Mario Williams, Chandler Jones, Michael Johnson, Adrian Clayborn, Dwight Freeney, Greg Hardy and Antwan Barnes are all accomplished pass rushers in this league. The other guys I named are either high profile young players or guys that are sneaky effective.

 

[So Be]

I don't buy this argument at all. And I'll tell you why.

Jonathan Martin allowed pressures to guys like Trevor Scott, Rob Ninkovich, Aldon Smith, Jason Babin, Kyle Moore, Chandler Jones, Justin Francis and Jermaine Cunningham.

I'm sorry, but that is NOT a pool of players that are way above normal for this league.

This year he will face: Paul Kruger, Barkevious Mingo, Jabaal Sheard, Bjoern Werner, Robert Mathis, Osi Umenyiora, Will Smith, Terrell Suggs, Pernell McPhee, Courtney Upshaw, Mario Williams, Manny Lawson, Jerry Hughes, Chandler Jones, Jamie Collins, Marcus Benard, Michael Johnson, DaQuan Bowers, Adrian Clayborn, Dwight Freeney, Greg Hardy, Quinton Coples, Antwan Barnes and Jarvis Jones.

That's no cake walk. Trust me. Paul Kruger, Robert Mathis, Osi Umenyiora, Will Smith, Terrell Suggs, Pernell McPhee, Mario Williams, Chandler Jones, Michael Johnson, Adrian Clayborn, Dwight Freeney, Greg Hardy and Antwan Barnes are all accomplished pass rushers in this league. The other guys I named are either high profile young players or guys that are sneaky effective.

Pressures yes but, only 2 sacks and 2 hits in 5 games. Those guys are not bad. :)

 

[phintim]

I could see both sides of that argument though. I love Lane Johnson. And I really liked Dion Jordan coming out. I had Lane a little above Dion on the vertical rankings, but not a lot.

On the one side you say hey we've already got Cam Wake and you could even argue we could've had John Abraham for a relatively inexpensive deal, and then we try and get a new pass rusher after this year, meanwhile we've got Lane Johnson protecting the franchise.

On the other side you could say listen it sucks not having a franchise left tackle but if Ryan Tannehill is the QB we want him to be it won't matter longer term, and Dion Jordan lets you not only turn quarterbacks you currently face into scared turf stains, he will also give you a smooth transition when Cameron Wake starts to come down and eventually retires.

Both arguments are valid.

Thing is I don't think taking care of 2nd pass rusher and Left Tackle were either-or propositions. You easily could've done both. The Dolphins chose not to and they're going to live with the results of that choice, for better or worse.

So you would have gone with Lane Johnson and Abraham routes this year?

 

[Canadi-Phin]

CK I agree but to be asked to switch sides mid year and go up against that is pretty daunting. Im not pretending Martin is going to the hall of game. But a full TC at LT should help his progress. Look at his game vs Bills. He played great. The nice thing is Jordan is dominating all of our LTs. That is a good thing.

 

[hoops]

quinton coples is playing olb though...ha ha...stupid jets...putting that guy in that much space...i get that they want to get those young de/dts on the field but quentin coples at olb not good

 

[ckparrothead]

Pressures yes but, only 2 sacks and 2 hits in 5 games. Those guys are not bad. :)

Sacks are more a function of whether the quarterback feels the rush and gets rid of the football on time or not.

Pressures are a much better indication of how often your offensive tackle is getting beat to where he's vulnerable to having allowed a sack if the quarterback doesn't quite get the ball off in time.

---------- Post added at 03:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:33 PM ----------

So you would have gone with Lane Johnson and Abraham routes this year?

Tough to say. I haven't spoken with John Abraham so I don't know what his demands are/were.

It's not really fair to give someone essentially just half of an off season (just the draft) to fix everything on the team. You have to work free agency and the draft together. My preference, absent of need, would've been to stay at the 12th pick and just snag Star Lotulelei when he fell.

 

[ckparrothead]

CK I agree but to be asked to switch sides mid year and go up against that is pretty daunting. Im not pretending Martin is going to the hall of game. But a full TC at LT should help his progress. Look at his game vs Bills. He played great. The nice thing is Jordan is dominating all of our LTs. That is a good thing.

Since when are guys like Trevor Scott, Rob Ninkovich, a rookie Chandler Jones, a Jason Babin who had just been claimed off waivers, a Kyle Moore, Jermaine Cunningham, Justin Francis...since when are those guys "daunting"? The only dauting matchup was Aldon Smith. And that matchup ended up every bit of the disgusting volley of lowlights for Sportscenter that it was predicted to be.

You can't just isolate a guy's one good game and say, see...he's going to play like that all 16 games now. It doesn't work like that.

---------- Post added at 03:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:37 PM ----------

quinton coples is playing olb though...ha ha...stupid jets...putting that guy in that much space...i get that they want to get those young de/dts on the field but quentin coples at olb not good

Yeah but it's essentially still a pass rusher spot. All they're doing is deciding they want Coples to be rushing from a wider initial position and I can't blame them for that. He's looked pretty good from wide-9 type alignments.

 

[nick1]

no sacks today that's progress

 

[ckparrothead]

no sacks today that's progress

According to Chris Perkins though he got pushed by Dion Jordan all the way into Tannehill who incompleted the pass because of it. And on another play they actually had Lamar Miller bail Martin out by chipping Dion Jordan's outside shoulder for him, but Martin still got flagged for holding.

A holding penalty is the equivalent of a sack in most coaches' eyes.

 

[Phindog]

Dion Jordon video from today on how he did against Martin. "You gotta watch practice."

Then went on to say he played against Martin in college so it's not the first time he played against Martin.

Reporter asked Dion on if he's 100% injury wise."I dont know I'm not a battery" With a smile.

This kid has a great rookie attitude and is going to be a good face for the defense for a long time.:up:


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