Greatest QB "Let the facts speak for Themselves" | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Greatest QB "Let the facts speak for Themselves"

I challange anybody to sit down, look at carrear stats of Marino & Elway (wins and all) and count the # of times Elway had a better year.


2 Thus 2-3 great years is better than 16-17!
 
ch19079 said:
same old argument. stats vs. SB victories.


i said it befor and ill say it again.

the point of the game is to win the SB. so you can not be the greatest QB ever, and not win a SB. you can be in the top 3, but the #1 guy has to have a ring.

Well then I guess Jim Kelly was a sucky QB huh? At least Dan only had ONE shot, not four. I guarantee you that if Marino was on ANY of those Buffalo teams, he would have a ring!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Where is joe montana in this arguement he is one of the best right up with elway, marino,stabler,and farve.
 
muscle979 said:
How different would it have been if Dan wouldn't have suffered the Achilles injury? Or what if it would have happened to Elway?

Injury is part of the game. Durability is one of the factors that go into determining "greatness" just like arm strength, accuracy, running ability, or deciphering defenses.

I personally think Dan was the best, but Im a Miami fan. I can see the argument from Broncos or 9ers fans.
 
The final error in the CS(current system)
is the emphasis on TD passes.
It is ranked the highest(well the point is to out score the opponent)
How many of Elway, Marino, or any others 4-5Td games did they win!

"Quarterbacks w/ gerat running backs, like Terry Bradshaw with Franco Harris would rather have the rb carry the ball over from 2 yds out than to pass it. And so their touchdown totals suffer."
 
ch19079 said:
football is a team sport, but the QB is still the head, the leader, the general, of that team. he cant feel that he was sucessful if the team doesnt win the game. he doesnt have control of the D, but if the D gives up a last second hail mary, than his team still losses, and the QB failed to lead them to victory. it sucks for any QB, to have his carrer defined by a defensive play, droped pass, or special teams play which he has no control over and cost him the win, but he accepted that when he chose to play QB. thats the nature of the QB position. he is responsible for the win, or loss.

:roflmao:
YOU ARE SUCH A MARINO BASHER! So Trent Dilfer has a superbowl ring....so he is a better QB than Marino. Football is a TEAM sport. What separates Marino from everyone else is the FACT he had the ability to take over a game. Where would Montana be without Roger Craig, who lead the NFC in total yards from scrimmage when Montana won his SB's, or howabout Bradshaw without Franco Harris, and John Elway with Terrell Davis, who unless I am wrong lead the NFL in rushing with over 2000 yards. I am sick of people bad mouthing Marino, imagine Marino on those teams and then imagine those QB's having to succeed with what Marino had. Oh and by the way didn't Montana have some guy named Jerry Rice to throw to as well. And I believe the system in SF had alot to do with success, because look at Steve Young. One other fact, imagine Jim Kelley without Thurman Thomas, you would NOT have been to 4 Superbowls...............guaranteed!!!!:fire:
 
dolfan121 said:
Well then I guess Jim Kelly was a sucky QB huh? At least Dan only had ONE shot, not four. I guarantee you that if Marino was on ANY of those Buffalo teams, he would have a ring!!!!!!!!!!!!

:shakeno:

i never said marino sucked. just not the best.
i never said ANYTHING about kelly in this argument. (till now)

kelly was good enough to get to 4 strait. but i dont think he was the greatest. (but if our kicker didnt miss that FG vs the giants, then he would be ~15 best overall, but as it is now, hes not in the top 20, but he is in the hall.)

If marino was on the bills he WOULD BE the greatest QB in the NFL.
To bad he got stuck with the fins for all those years. :shakeno:
 
dolfan121 said:
:roflmao:
YOU ARE SUCH A MARINO BASHER! So Trent Dilfer has a superbowl ring....so he is a better QB than Marino.

that comment was to describe how the QB position is diffrent from the other positions in how they view sucess. not on how to choose the best QB.

but as i have said before, a SB ring is NOT THE ONLY FACTOR, but IS A FACTOR when trying to find the greatest. you look a (atleast) 3 factors:

stats
SB victories
dominant game play (and how long they were dominant).

Dilfer is NOT the best QB ever, because his stats and game play are not that good. even with his SB ring, that doesnt bring his stock up to a level of other QBs.

Marino is NOT the best QB ever, because his stats are the best, and had dominant game play, which raises his stock, but without the ring he doesnt have the weight to bring his stock above other QBs.

lets take Elway (i just picked a name)
his stats are good, (not the best), had dominant game play, AND 2 SB RINGS. To me, the combined weight of the gameplay, stats (though not great), and 2 SB rings puts his stock above Marinos.

hes not that much better, but still better.

people change the weight of each factor based on their own opinions.
to me, thats how it is.



you could say "teammates" is a factor.
but then do you think marino is angry at the fins for not giving him more help for all those years? :lol:

or "team bias" could be a factor. if your a fin fan, your more likly going to say marino is the best.

or "did i watch his games" could be another factor. i have never watched Johnny U. or really watch old montana games. so im less likly to put them up there. if you watch a players games every week, you see what he can do and are impressed. and often put him ahead of other players you havent watched.
 
Jnaledu3 said:
1. Elway
2. Unitas
3. Marino
4. Montana

You can't be 25 years old and have Unitas #2. I'm also 25 and if you havn't seen him play or done EXTENSIVE research on him he can't be that high. From what I hear he should be in the Top 5 but since I don't know I'll leave him out of my Top 5.

1. Dan Marino
2. John Elway
3. Joe Montana
4. Brett Favre
5. Randall Cunningham
 
ch19079 said:
:shakeno:

kelly was good enough to get to 4 strait. but i dont think he was the greatest. (but if our kicker didnt miss that FG vs the giants, then he would be ~15 best overall, but as it is now, hes not in the top 20, but he is in the hall.)

So you have a kicker impacting where you think Kelly ranks as a top QB of all time... :shakeno:
 
ch19079 said:
im not saying that SB victories are the only factor when determining who is the greatest.

but it HAS to be A factor.

so simply winning 8 SBs wont make you the best. but a QB with slightly less stats but a SB victory, will be put ahead of the QB that has no SB victories and great stats.

its like a giant scale. stats weight little, while SB victories weight more.
and you performance in playoff games, and all around dominance weigh the most. and its tough to be the heaviest when you only have 2 of the 3.

im just saying Marino doesnt have enough weight on his side of the scale when compared to the top QBs. (though he could be #2 or #3).

I agree that it should be a factor. I just have a problem with those that exclude Marino entirely b/c he doesn't have a ring. In my rankings, despite the fact that Marino is my favorite all time player, I don't have him as the best QB. I have Montana at the top, but I have Marino second above Elway and his two rings.
 
My top 15 (:(nobody better ***** b/c of this)

1) Dan the Man
2) Joe Montana
3) John Elway
4) Troy Aikman
5) Terry Bradshaw
6) Brett Favre
7) Steve Young
8) Roger Staubach(Is that how you spell it?)
9) Bob Griese
10) Joe Namath
11) Doug Flutie
12) Jim Kelly
13) Peyton Manning
14) Tom Brady
15) Donavan McNabb

Hey I gave Every AFCE fan what they wanted. And if your guy isnt on here too ****ing bad mofos
 
Montana was the best I ever saw at crunch time. The guy had nerves of titanium. I also think he had the best vision & quick decision-making of anyone in my experience. If somebody was open, he'd get the ball there. People can say it was the system (you could say that for any qb), but the fact is, he took what was at the time the most complicated offense in football and made it look easy.
I wouldn't try to rank the rest in any particular order, but Dan, Fran, Unitas & Aikman (extremely accurate) would be in my top 10.
Elway was a little too turnover prone for a lot of his career to suit me. I'd rank him with Staubach.
No telling what young would have done had he been SF's qb for more of their heyday.
 
finnyboy002 said:
So you have a kicker impacting where you think Kelly ranks as a top QB of all time... :shakeno:

sad but true.

take the pats for example. say in there SB victories, insted of winning the SB (by 3 points each time), he missed the kicks and they lost the the game.

would they even have brady's name in the conversation of best QB ever?

IMO, the 1990's bills, would be thaught of A LOT diffrently if he makes that FG.
 
I'll take the easy way out and say that Marino was a better passing QB than Elway, which he was by far. But Elway did do a lot with less around him offensively, he never won until Sharpe bloomed and TD really came alive, and Marino never had a big play RB, heck not even a 1000 yard rusher. Montana i dont even consider because he had so much talent around him it wasn't even funny, if i was building a team i'd take Marino over Elway, even though Elway was better all-around nobody really had an arm like Dan...
 
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