muscle979
FinHeaven VIP
yankeehillbilly said:
I think we can agree they were both durable qbs. It's not like Marino was missing four or five games every season like say Fiedler or Pennington. An injury like that doesn't mean he wasn't tough.
Greatest QB "Let the facts speak for Themselves"
- Thread starter PHINZONER
- Start date
I think we can agree they were both durable qbs. It's not like Marino was missing four or five games every season like say Fiedler or Pennington. An injury like that doesn't mean he wasn't tough.
muscle979
FinHeaven VIP
muscle979 said:
That makes me think, Pennington and Fiedler are now the Jets number one and two. I hope they have a good third stringer lined up, as injury prone as the first two are.
you couldn't be more incorrect....the supporting cast HAS to play a role...ch19079 said:
Lungoystr
Pro Bowler
ch19079 said:
BS. You can be the best at your position and NOT have a ring. Barry Sanders is a prime example of that at the RB position and Marino at QB.
I have said it before and I will say it again. A SB ring does not make you great. Benchwarmers on a SB team get rings but that certainly doesn't make them HOFers. Marino did what a great QB should be able to do......he carried his team for his entire career. With no running game........only flashes of what seemed like a good defense as well as draft after draft of annual disappointments, Marino remained the rock that coaches, players and fans could count on to give them firm footing during the season. Other teams knew what Miami's gameplan was (pass, pass and pass some more) yet few could stop it even then.
If you still wish to claim that Marino isn't the greatest, look at those you would put ahead of him and look at the talent that surrounded them. NONE of those QBs could have come into Miami and succeeded in grasping a ring. NONE of them could have carried this team with the lack of talent it possessed for all of those years. Like it or not, Marino was the best ever.....he simply wasn't fortunate enough to have a personel guy that could give him the tools he needed to reach that final step.
My argument for Marino as number 1 centers on the following well established facts:
1) Marino never had a running game. Elway and Montana both had serious running attacks during the successful years of their careers. Marino didn't get to enjoy the way defenses would have to stop the running attack. There never was one for the Dolphins.
2) Marino never had a dominating WR. Montana threw to the greatest WR of all time. The guy on the other side of the field from Rice was a pro bowler and a helluva player himself. Marino's receivers during his best production were both 5 feet 8 inches and 185 pounds. Look at how many receivers Marino threw to in his career. It's a freakin' phone book.
3) The Dolphins never had a Defense during Marino's career. Both the Broncos and SF did.
The above points means that the only weapon the Dolphins had (since they couldn't run and couldn't stop the opposition with a defense) was for Marino to throw. The opposition knew they could key totally on Marino and the STILL couldn't stop him. Elway and Montana both enjoyed a significant amount of support in this team game than Marino ever enjoyed.
1) Marino never had a running game. Elway and Montana both had serious running attacks during the successful years of their careers. Marino didn't get to enjoy the way defenses would have to stop the running attack. There never was one for the Dolphins.
2) Marino never had a dominating WR. Montana threw to the greatest WR of all time. The guy on the other side of the field from Rice was a pro bowler and a helluva player himself. Marino's receivers during his best production were both 5 feet 8 inches and 185 pounds. Look at how many receivers Marino threw to in his career. It's a freakin' phone book.
3) The Dolphins never had a Defense during Marino's career. Both the Broncos and SF did.
The above points means that the only weapon the Dolphins had (since they couldn't run and couldn't stop the opposition with a defense) was for Marino to throw. The opposition knew they could key totally on Marino and the STILL couldn't stop him. Elway and Montana both enjoyed a significant amount of support in this team game than Marino ever enjoyed.
ch19079
Dolphin, its whats for dinner
Lungoystr said:
keep reading the other pages of this topic, i have already explained why i think the QB position is deffrent than the RB position, when talking about requierments to be consitered the "greatest ever".
Mike13
I am a golden god
jguig said:
Preach on Mofo preach on, although Marino had Duper and Clayton but they were never dominating WR's so I know what you mean. Marino also had a better D in the last 3 or 4 years of his career.
I haven't seen any Pats or Jets fan post yet hmmmmmmmmmm.....
finnyboy002
Dolphins Canadian Representative
ch19079 said:
It doesn't matter if "they" mention his name or not, if Adam Vinatieri was an awful kicker how does that make Tom Brady any less of a Quarterback? That makes no sense what-so-ever. Jim Kelly was a great QB in his own right, and my opinion of him doesn't change because Scott Norwood missed :roflmao: excuse me... the game winning kick in the Super
sorry about that... Bowl game!!!Well, back again. I must say I am laughing at these posts.
Let's give it up for the point that not 1 of the other Qbs could have carried the Fins as Marino did. Duper and clayton left for greener pastures in there walets, and NEVER EVER caught 1000yds in aseason again! Oh Marino still threw for 4000=yds. Common denominator, Fins jersey and the #13 throwing the pigskin.
Vinateri(?) is the sole reason(other than a blown tuck call) that the Pats have any rings. Brady did absolutely nothing amazing to carry his team to those victories. At least no big plays I remember! Just solid play to win by 3 pts. Put the patsies up against the Boys in a SB and there is no game winning FG! The Boys avg like 17 point victories. That does not make Aikman the greatest, but I will say as much as I hate the Cowboys, they are arguably the best team ever! Why? Every position was almost probowlers. The OL blew holes open that Kijana Carter could have led the league in rushing. Aikman had all the time in the world, and a killer TE/WR core and FB that was a weapon. Then ther is their Def. Nuff Said! I hate them w/a passion along w/the Vikes!
Let's give it up for the point that not 1 of the other Qbs could have carried the Fins as Marino did. Duper and clayton left for greener pastures in there walets, and NEVER EVER caught 1000yds in aseason again! Oh Marino still threw for 4000=yds. Common denominator, Fins jersey and the #13 throwing the pigskin.
Vinateri(?) is the sole reason(other than a blown tuck call) that the Pats have any rings. Brady did absolutely nothing amazing to carry his team to those victories. At least no big plays I remember! Just solid play to win by 3 pts. Put the patsies up against the Boys in a SB and there is no game winning FG! The Boys avg like 17 point victories. That does not make Aikman the greatest, but I will say as much as I hate the Cowboys, they are arguably the best team ever! Why? Every position was almost probowlers. The OL blew holes open that Kijana Carter could have led the league in rushing. Aikman had all the time in the world, and a killer TE/WR core and FB that was a weapon. Then ther is their Def. Nuff Said! I hate them w/a passion along w/the Vikes!
Now look at the carear achievements year by year. If Elway is even close, then Terell Davis is a sure fire first ballot hall of famer. Why? He carried that team to a SB, not Elway. Elway could not muster even 1 first down until TD was back from the migrane. The best ever functions when 1 weapon is M.I.A.
DolfanISS
Perennial All-Pro
If winning is the #1 requirement for being the greatest ever than IMHO "hollywood handsome" Tommy Brady is the best ever. Brady has never worked with half the offense Montana had to work with and he still has 3 rings in 4 seasons. Remember Montana played with a guy that if we started a thread asking who is the best WR of all time there wouldn't be much argument. No other QB in NFL history has had that luxury. If winning is it, and I don't agree that it is, Brady is better than Montana.
And of course nobody is better than Charles Haley. He has 5 rings.
PS - If anyone argues that Brady has a great defense your just solidifying the argument of all of the Dolphins fans who think Marino is the best ever. It's a team sport and it takes a team effort to win.
And of course nobody is better than Charles Haley. He has 5 rings.
PS - If anyone argues that Brady has a great defense your just solidifying the argument of all of the Dolphins fans who think Marino is the best ever. It's a team sport and it takes a team effort to win.