Greedy...I dont think so. | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Greedy...I dont think so.

I think part of the reason why people consider Owens greedy is because he cheated the Ravens out of acquiring him by publicly saying he refuses to play for them, then signed a contract with the team he wanted to go for. Now, not only a full year later, he's complaining and holding out of that contract.

THAT IS GREEDY!
 
kbeath said:
Why are all these players that are holding out considered Greedy?:confused: We all want all the money we bring to our respective companies not a cent less but when its a pro athlete than its GREED. :shakeno: I keep hearing "respect your contract" that is funny I dont remember too many contracts that the teams keep. They are always cutting people to free up salary cap space and to stop from paying all the money from the back loaded contract. FOOTBALL CONTRACTS ARE NOT GUARENTEED. Only the signing bonuses. TO may be a jerk but come on the guy is getting paid like the 10th best WR in the league when you are lying if you think you can name 3 better. Same thing goes for Walker as far as getting what your worth. Like it or not these players bring millions of dollars in revenue for there teams and the city they live in. It is unfair to throw the lable GREEDY around. If we were the 10th highest paid employeer for a company we were the absolute most productive worker at, we would all be Pissed! So isnt all this GREEDY stuff HYPOCRITICAL!:fire:

Please......in the case of TO he signed a deal just one year ago, if he didn't like it then why did he sign it and accept the signing bonus? Was he not one of the top wideouts in the league before last season? Why did he sign the deal then?

TO is everything that is wrong with todays players, Tom Brady is whats right, accepting a deal way below the top QB's in this league so that his team could be competitive.

The players are employees, not business owners, they do not take the risks of ownership. Everytime these players jack up salaries the only person it ultimately hurts is Joe football fan who will have to pay more and more for the privledge of being a fan in order that these players can make enough money for 50 lifetimes instead of 25.
 
This crap comes up every year and pisses me off more and more every year. The CBA that the players have extended every time it's come up has provisions in it to protect the teams. One of those provisions is to terminate contracts. There are many reasons listed for doing so. The CBA has provisions in it to protect the players. One of those provisions is free agency. It is up to the players agent to negotiate fare market value for their client to assure the clients services are paid fair market value. They even have this ability from day one as a rookie because they are not under contract. Free agency is a huge bonus for the players and a mixed bag for teams. A player that you have put countless man hours into scouting, drafting, coaching, establishing in your community can at any time leave your team for fair market value elsewhere leaving you with nothing for your investment.

The point is no player is "being screwed" by playing under a contract that isn't paying them fair market value for their services. Their agent brought them the deal and they signed it on the dotted line knowing full well the implications of the contract as enforced by the NFL and the CBA.

The signing bonus a player receives is guaranteed money the team has assured the player they will be paid regardless of performance or playing time lost to injury. In a lot of cases the signing bonus can account for 50% of the total contact value. This is the financial security set up in the CBA and in reference to the salary cap that really protects the players. When the player is a proven NFL player they can have their agent negotiate a higher percentage of their new contract as guaranteed money. Teams because of salary cap restrictions will need to use the signing bonus to keep the players contract low to accomodate the cap. Sometimes the team will even have to guarantee the salary portion of a players contract in one year, to have that players contract have less impact on the cap.

Because their is no provision in the current CBA for a players contract holdout, the team is entitled to levy a fine on the player for every day missed. ( which most teams never do )

The fact of the matter is that a holdout is a very selfish attempt by a player to circumvent the CBA, the rules of NFL employment, and the trust of the fans ( who pay their salary ) for immediate financial gain. It is truely up to the player to find proper representation that will work with the team to assure they get a contract that they feel is paying them for their services fairly.
 
Megatron said:
This crap comes up every year and pisses me off more and more every year. The CBA that the players have extended every time it's come up has provisions in it to protect the teams. One of those provisions is to terminate contracts. There are many reasons listed for doing so. The CBA has provisions in it to protect the players. One of those provisions is free agency. It is up to the players agent to negotiate fare market value for their client to assure the clients services are paid fair market value. They even have this ability from day one as a rookie because they are not under contract. Free agency is a huge bonus for the players and a mixed bag for teams. A player that you have put countless man hours into scouting, drafting, coaching, establishing in your community can at any time leave your team for fair market value elsewhere leaving you with nothing for your investment.

The point is no player is "being screwed" by playing under a contract that isn't paying them fair market value for their services. Their agent brought them the deal and they signed it on the dotted line knowing full well the implications of the contract as enforced by the NFL and the CBA.

The signing bonus a player receives is guaranteed money the team has assured the player they will be paid regardless of performance or playing time lost to injury. In a lot of cases the signing bonus can account for 50% of the total contact value. This is the financial security set up in the CBA and in reference to the salary cap that really protects the players. When the player is a proven NFL player they can have their agent negotiate a higher percentage of their new contract as guaranteed money. Teams because of salary cap restrictions will need to use the signing bonus to keep the players contract low to accomodate the cap. Sometimes the team will even have to guarantee the salary portion of a players contract in one year, to have that players contract have less impact on the cap.

Because their is no provision in the current CBA for a players contract holdout, the team is entitled to levy a fine on the player for every day missed. ( which most teams never do )

The fact of the matter is that a holdout is a very selfish attempt by a player to circumvent the CBA, the rules of NFL employment, and the trust of the fans ( who pay their salary ) for immediate financial gain. It is truely up to the player to find proper representation that will work with the team to assure they get a contract that they feel is paying them for their services fairly.

Excellent post.......the signing bonus is the guarantee for the player against the possibility of being cut, as you so perfectly stated........the rules for employment were agreed to by both sides, they both have to live up to it like men, not hold out after one season like a selfish child.
 
kbeath said:
Why are all these players that are holding out considered Greedy?:confused: We all want all the money we bring to our respective companies not a cent less but when its a pro athlete than its GREED. :shakeno: I keep hearing "respect your contract" that is funny I dont remember too many contracts that the teams keep. They are always cutting people to free up salary cap space and to stop from paying all the money from the back loaded contract. FOOTBALL CONTRACTS ARE NOT GUARENTEED. Only the signing bonuses. TO may be a jerk but come on the guy is getting paid like the 10th best WR in the league when you are lying if you think you can name 3 better. Same thing goes for Walker as far as getting what your worth. Like it or not these players bring millions of dollars in revenue for there teams and the city they live in. It is unfair to throw the lable GREEDY around. If we were the 10th highest paid employeer for a company we were the absolute most productive worker at, we would all be Pissed! So isnt all this GREEDY stuff HYPOCRITICAL!:fire:

12 months ago, he's perfectly happy with it..........
Now he's not.......

Your point is somewhat valid if he's, say, halfway thru the contract or more.
BUT HE JUST SIGNED THE CONTRACT 12 MONTHS AGO...........AND NOW SAYS IT'S A BAD DEAL.......

Come on....
:shakeno:
 
Mile High Fin said:
12 months ago, he's perfectly happy with it..........
Now he's not.......

Your point is somewhat valid if he's, say, halfway thru the contract or more.
BUT HE JUST SIGNED THE CONTRACT 12 MONTHS AGO...........AND NOW SAYS IT'S A BAD DEAL.......

Come on....
:shakeno:

The point is not valid if he is halfway through the contract. The point isnt even valid if he has 1 year left on a 10 year contract.
When a player accepts a contract and signing bonus, he is taking the risk that his performance will exceed the amt of money guaranteed him, in which case he would be underpaid. The team is taking the risk that the guaranteed money will exceed the player's performance, in which case the player is being overpaid.
If the risks involved are not acceptable to either party, they shouldnt sign the deal.
 
agents often drive these things. there is merit to both sides of the argument. the main one on the "greedy" side, IMO, is the salary cap. i don't think the actual dollar amount of what TO requests is greedy when you look at how he elevated the team and you look at the amount of money the team generates. look at the amount of money and excitement TO generated for the eagles. their fans didn't go through the year thinking "here we go again!" which is an achievement. the problem is the timing and the fact that the team has a salary cap. the eagles, however, do a great job managing the cap and could compensate TO accordingly. considering where the eagles were before TO and what they looked like with TO, i would give him a new deal.
 
Megatron said:
This crap comes up every year and pisses me off more and more every year. The CBA that the players have extended every time it's come up has provisions in it to protect the teams. One of those provisions is to terminate contracts. There are many reasons listed for doing so. The CBA has provisions in it to protect the players. One of those provisions is free agency. It is up to the players agent to negotiate fare market value for their client to assure the clients services are paid fair market value. They even have this ability from day one as a rookie because they are not under contract. Free agency is a huge bonus for the players and a mixed bag for teams. A player that you have put countless man hours into scouting, drafting, coaching, establishing in your community can at any time leave your team for fair market value elsewhere leaving you with nothing for your investment.

The point is no player is "being screwed" by playing under a contract that isn't paying them fair market value for their services. Their agent brought them the deal and they signed it on the dotted line knowing full well the implications of the contract as enforced by the NFL and the CBA.

The signing bonus a player receives is guaranteed money the team has assured the player they will be paid regardless of performance or playing time lost to injury. In a lot of cases the signing bonus can account for 50% of the total contact value. This is the financial security set up in the CBA and in reference to the salary cap that really protects the players. When the player is a proven NFL player they can have their agent negotiate a higher percentage of their new contract as guaranteed money. Teams because of salary cap restrictions will need to use the signing bonus to keep the players contract low to accomodate the cap. Sometimes the team will even have to guarantee the salary portion of a players contract in one year, to have that players contract have less impact on the cap.

Because their is no provision in the current CBA for a players contract holdout, the team is entitled to levy a fine on the player for every day missed. ( which most teams never do )

The fact of the matter is that a holdout is a very selfish attempt by a player to circumvent the CBA, the rules of NFL employment, and the trust of the fans ( who pay their salary ) for immediate financial gain. It is truely up to the player to find proper representation that will work with the team to assure they get a contract that they feel is paying them for their services fairly.



You need to look at this issue from both sides of the equation. OWNERS try to circumvent the CBA quite regularly, it's called the Franchise Tag. You go and tell a player like Donovan Darius that he was being greedy for holding out of the mini camps b/c the jags Franchised him THREE times earing roughly 3.5 mil per year/each year to year. So he avoided FA and the garaunteed signing bonus that you feel is so graciuously put out there for the players sake. Just like TO is abusing his situation the JAGS ownership is doing the same thing, this issue is NOT black & white/right & wrong there are many shades of gray that are minipulated and twisted for both parties advantage. SOME PLAYERS THAT HOLD OUT ARE NOT BEING GREEDY, SOME ARE MERELY TRYING TO GET WAS IS DUE TO THEM PER THE CBA...
 
phillyphinphan said:
You need to look at this issue from both sides of the equation. OWNERS try to circumvent the CBA quite regularly, it's called the Franchise Tag. You go and tell a player like Donovan Darius that he was being greedy for holding out of the mini camps b/c the jags Franchised him THREE times earing roughly 3.5 mil per year/each year to year. So he avoided FA and the garaunteed signing bonus that you feel is so graciuously put out there for the players sake. Just like TO is abusing his situation the JAGS ownership is doing the same thing, this issue is NOT black & white/right & wrong there are many shades of gray that are minipulated and twisted for both parties advantage. SOME PLAYERS THAT HOLD OUT ARE NOT BEING GREEDY, SOME ARE MERELY TRYING TO GET WAS IS DUE TO THEM PER THE CBA...

good, well-thought-out example. gray is the operative color in most instances.
 
phillyphinphan said:
You need to look at this issue from both sides of the equation. OWNERS try to circumvent the CBA quite regularly, it's called the Franchise Tag. You go and tell a player like Donovan Darius that he was being greedy for holding out of the mini camps b/c the jags Franchised him THREE times earing roughly 3.5 mil per year/each year to year. So he avoided FA and the garaunteed signing bonus that you feel is so graciuously put out there for the players sake. Just like TO is abusing his situation the JAGS ownership is doing the same thing, this issue is NOT black & white/right & wrong there are many shades of gray that are minipulated and twisted for both parties advantage. SOME PLAYERS THAT HOLD OUT ARE NOT BEING GREEDY, SOME ARE MERELY TRYING TO GET WAS IS DUE TO THEM PER THE CBA...

Sorry, the franchise tag and how it may be used was agreed to by both sides, if a player feels the team has acted in violation of the CBA they can appeal to the commissioner. Your argument doesn't hold water.
 
BlueFin said:
Sorry, the franchise tag and how it may be used was agreed to by both sides, if a player feels the team has acted in violation of the CBA they can appeal to the commissioner. Your argument doesn't hold water.

Do you know what my argument is? I'll tell you, the lable "greedy" cannot be applied across the board when it comes to a player holding out there are instances were it could be understood and some where it IS a case of being greedy. The CBA is an agreement that has loopholes in it that benefit both player and owner and both parties sure as heck (PG version) try to use these loopholes to their advantage. Again, GREEDY is NOT a term that can be applied to everyone who holds out. now, tell me again that my argument does not hold water...
 
Tell T.O. if he can recover some of the money the Eagles paid FredEx for his paltry production he can have it. He should atleast wait 2 years to ask for a new deal.. Not the Eageles fault that T.O. signed a Joe Horn like deal, he knew what he was worth last year too...
 
The franchise tag puts you in the 5 highest paid players at your position, how is that a bad contract. Teams can't go paying TO 10 million dollar signning bonus's every year, that would kill there cap. Javon walker should be at camp too, hold out all you want, but's there always someone more than willing to start for you, when your sitting on couch waiting for the phone to ring, ask philip rivers what holding out got him besides a clip board and the bench, maybe he just wants money, but he won't be playing anytime soon.
 
DPlus47 said:
http://news.ft.com/cms/s/f269a8f4-c173-11d9-943f-00000e2511c8,ft_acl=,s01=2.html

we're conditioned to blame labor. it's a product of calvinism. if somebody has the power to make more money, i say "more power to ya."

As long as they arent trying to get out of a contract they agreed to, I agree.
If T.O. or Walker had completed their contracts and were holding out because they didnt like the terms of the new contracts their respective teams offered, then I'd be behind them 100%.
However, they both agreed that the amount of money offered in their original contracts was fair and acceptable. Now they have changed their minds. They both need to just shut up and live with the deals that they agreed to. When their contracts are up, then they can try to get whatever amount they want.
 
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