Harris will be to the DL what James was to the OL: pure MEH.

[LDaniel7]

James was pretty much universally seen as a reach at the time, though it was a reach that was still somewhat understandable given the dire need of the OL. He's our second worst lineman right now but it seems like he's worse now than his first couple of years where he was usually solid if not spectacular. I don't see any expert labeling this pick as a reach, maybe not a sure thing, but he's a guy who was considered a legitimate prospect in a very deep position group this year and some think he would have been drafted higher in other years if there weren't so many DE's this draft.

Fair take.

---------- Post added at 12:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:24 AM ----------

We wouldn't have been happy regardless. Conley has rape allegations, Peppers isn't much of an impact defender, Takk would have been interesting but his comments would have turned some fans off, White is a #2 CB at best, Taco is more raw than Harris, we already have a TE, Watt is more of a 3-4 OLB, Foster has a ton of issues, and we don't need another tackle.

Another fair take. I don't fully agree, but can see the perspective.

More options than just these, including trade down.

LD

 

[DZimmer000]

I liked Harris for us at 22 BEFORE I found out that Foster would be there. How do you pass on the BEST LB'er in the draft BAR NONE???? I just don't get it. And...Someone please explain how we stop the run as of right now???

As for Harris.... I think he'll be a good player. If he can get 10 sacks a year....I'll be happy. But I'm always going to compare his career to Foster's.

 

[LDaniel7]

No, I'm not rating Hayes too highly. He was rated as the best run stopping DE in the NFL.

Pass rushing talent is at a premium in the NFL. Teams desperately covet it. Miami gets one of the best pass rushers in the draft and people bitch that "he's not going to start".

How about instead of looking at his 40 time you watch him play a little bit and see his effectiveness at DE? Or maybe take into account that a player "starting" means nothing, snap count does.

But did you also forget that Miami has zero pass rushers other than 35 year old Cameron Wake?

No, you're probably meddling in the petty ****ing details of day one impact rather than career long impact.

So becuase Harris isn't great against the run means he's completely useless as a DE? Oh, ok.

Since it's so easy to teach premier pass rushing to a DE, let's just turn Terrence Fede into a pass rusher.

Well, since we seem to be talking past each other right now, not sure how much good conversation will do.

Let's just say I can see your position loud and clear. Not so sure you understand where I'm coming from until you see it play out over a season.

Or two.

So many times what I say in football terms takes people a year or two to agree. Then it's too late.

But I see your point.

LD

 

[Phinsfan93]

Fair take.

---------- Post added at 12:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:24 AM ----------



Another fair take. I don't fully agree, but can see the perspective.

More options than just these, including trade down.

LD

For sure. When I heard that Grier said that teams wanted to trade up with Miami and they didn't, I was pissed. Could have traded down, picked up an extra 3rd/4th+ whatever else, and gotten Jordan Willis whom imo fits more of what the defense needs and projects as a better player than Harris.

 

[SCLSU Mud Dogs]

Well, since we seem to be talking past each other right now, not sure how much good conversation will do.

Let's just say I can see your position loud and clear. Not so sure you understand where I'm coming from until you see it play out over a season.

Or two.

So many times what I say in football terms takes people a year or two to agree. Then it's too late.

But I see your point.

LD

Elite pass rushers get drafted in the first round. Charles Harris has elite pass rush talent. Period.

 

[Phinsfan93]

I liked Harris for us at 22 BEFORE I found out that Foster would be there. How do you pass on the BEST LB'er in the draft BAR NONE???? I just don't get it. And...Someone please explain how we stop the run as of right now???

As for Harris.... I think he'll be a good player. If he can get 10 sacks a year....I'll be happy. But I'm always going to compare his career to Foster's.

How would we stop the run if we picked Foster?

 

[Sons Of Shula]

How would we stop the run if we picked Foster?

[video]http://draftbreakdown.com/video/reuben-foster-vs-usc-2016-2/[/video]

2:19 mark. Best S2S range in the draft and plays with a violence that Alonso can only dream about.

 

[HeavenCent]

Foster is 229 and plays like it. He's not a Mike, he's a Will. Needs more sand in his pants for sure. Plus, you want to talk about H/W/S issues, Foster's got them.

Harris may not have Willis' measurables, but his pro day was very good and backs up what you see when he plays.

Would have preferred they trade down to get additional picks, but it's not like they drafted a bust.

 

[LDaniel7]

Elite pass rushers get drafted in the first round. Charles Harris has elite pass rush talent. Period.

Let's try this another way.

1. Do you think Harris can replace what Wake brings to the team in terms of pass rushing ability?

2. And if so, will he improve Wake's levels against the run? Will he set the edge better than Wake.

3. And will he do these things in year 1 and 2?

If not yes on all three, then why a first round pick?

LD

 

[Phinsfan93]

[video]http://draftbreakdown.com/video/reuben-foster-vs-usc-2016-2/[/video]

2:19 mark. Best S2S range in the draft and plays with a violence that Alonso can only dream about.

I like Foster don't get me wrong. How many times do you think that would happen before teams, like NE for example, find a way to neutralize it?

 

[SCLSU Mud Dogs]

Let's try this another way.

1. Do you think Harris can replace what Wake brings to the team in terms of pass rushing ability?

2. And if so, will he improve Wake's levels against the run? Will he set the edge better than Wake.

3. And will he do these things in year 1 and 2?

If not yes on all three, then why a first round pick?

LD

Do I think Charles Will be a double-digit sack guy in the NFL? Yes.

He has more likelihood of being better than Wake long-term because he won't take a route through Canada to get into the NFL

He doesn't have to be those things in year 1 and 2 because Wake is still here and the other players on the defensive line.

I don't know if you know this, but players in the NFL often develop further than their college skillset. So, looking at a rookie as simply what they bring in year one is like looking at a prime cut of steak without it being prepared. You would pay more for a filet mignon than you would a skirt steak, no? When you cook them, do they taste the same?

---------- Post added at 12:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:43 AM ----------

I like Foster don't get me wrong. How many times do you think that would happen before teams, like NE for example, find a way to neutralize it?

Or you know, why was Foster passed up 30 times in the first round? Probably because teams knew something that outsiders didn't. But let's dwell on not drafting Foster because his shoulder is 100% healthy and he absolutely aced the pre-draft process. (that was sarcasm, by the way).

 

[Sons Of Shula]

Or you know, why was Foster passed up 30 times in the first round? Probably because teams knew something that outsiders didn't. But let's dwell on not drafting Foster because his shoulder is 100% healthy and he absolutely aced the pre-draft process.

:idk:

Jeff Darlington‏Verified account @JeffDarlington 58m58 minutes ago

- I’d heard something seemingly hard to believe this week — that Lynch was considering Foster at No. 2. Perhaps a stretch. At 31? Lynch wins.

 

[LDaniel7]

Do I think Charles Will be a double-digit sack guy in the NFL? Yes.

He has more likelihood of being better than Wake long-term because he won't take a route through Canada to get into the NFL

He doesn't have to be those things in year 1 and 2 because Wake is still here and the other players on the defensive line.

I don't know if you know this, but players in the NFL often develop further than their college skillset. So, looking at a rookie as simply what they bring in year one is like looking at a prime cut of steak without it being prepared. You would pay more for a filet mignon than you would a skirt steak, no? When you cook them, do they taste the same?

Ha! Thanks for the condescension. I was wondering if players developed in the NFL.

Seriously. c'mon.

I'm looking at this in terms of how to build NFL teams through the draft and in terms of how you HAVE to spend money in order to win championships.

Miami historically has drafted huge question mark guys that spend the bulk of their first contracts in adding nothing of plug and play high level value. Miami pays massively to DEVELOP non-ready talent, only to a. have the talent flame out completely. 2. Become perennial mediocre, low-level athletes and impact players. Or 3. Become too expensive to keep when they actually develop.

This is another in a long line of paying to DEVELOP for the first couple years. I mean -- working tail off as coaches and praying that a huge area of weakness becomes simply okay. And without moving to fix real team weaknesses. If you use this player as a "Wake chip," without dealing with needs that have existed for like years now, then you're just keeping status quo. And you're not a championship level team.

Some of this is up in the air, still. We both are projecting. You are using NFL experts and TRUSTING the FO.

I'm using personal football awareness and a proven take on the Miami Dolphins track record the last few years.

We'll see who's right. I hope you are.

But so far, all such hopes in radically similar takes as yours have been unfounded.

LD

 

[Dmac_73]

Terrible thread.

You can't predict the future and say Harris will be this and that.... Let the kids play speak for your self and you may or may not eat crow down the road.

I have a buddy that is a die hard Mizzou fan and i've watched a lot of this kid. GREAT spin move.... Better than most NFL players... Great get off as previously mentioned, good pursuit. Maybe not the best run stopper but i've seen him stop plenty of RBs in the backfield. The kid is relentless and the kid is still raw. He is still developing his craft having come into football so late.

People arguing for Foster... 30 teams passed on him for a reason. We JUST released DJ... Yet we want to take ANOTHER first round risk on a questionable character player with a shoulder injury out of college? I don't think we could risk taking that exact same road again.... Fins up

Dmac

 

[SCLSU Mud Dogs]

:idk:

So if Lynch was "considering" foster that high and didn't take him, which do you take to be the reality? The talk or the action?