Harris will be to the DL what James was to the OL: pure MEH.

[SCLSU Mud Dogs]

Ha! Thanks for the condescension. I was wondering if players developed in the NFL.

Seriously. c'mon.

I'm looking at this in terms of how to build NFL teams through the draft and in terms of how you HAVE to spend money in order to win championships.

Miami historically has drafted huge question mark guys that spend the bulk of their first contracts in adding nothing of plug and play high level value. Miami pays massively to DEVELOP non-ready talent, only to a. have the talent flame out completely. 2. Become perennial mediocre, low-level athletes and impact players. Or 3. Become too expensive to keep when they actually develop.

This is another in a long line of paying to DEVELOP for the first couple years. I mean -- working tail off as coaches and praying that a huge area of weakness becomes simply okay. And without moving to fix real team weaknesses. If you use this player as a "Wake chip," without dealing with needs that have existed for like years now, then you're just keeping status quo. And you're not a championship level team.

Some of this is up in the air, still. We both are projecting. You are using NFL experts and TRUSTING the FO.

I'm using personal football awareness and a proven take on the Miami Dolphins track record the last few years.

We'll see who's right. I hope you are.

But so far, all such hopes in radically similar takes as yours have been unfounded.

LD

Your take of development is that Harris is not ready to see the field, which is actually false. Harris will make an immediate impact as a pass rusher and certainly has the ability to be one of the main DEs in Miami's rotation. As opposed to Olivier Vernon, who came out of Miami with a basically non existent skill at pass rushing, and didn't see the field much in his first several seasons.

Harris' development is one that he will get a lot of playing time while further developing along the way.

Like I said in a previous post (or in another thread), if being a pass rusher was so easy, then why doesn't Terrence Fede do it? Or why are there so many teams in the NFL that struggle getting to the quarterback consistently?

 

[LDaniel7]

Terrible thread.

You can't predict the future and say Harris will be this and that.... Let the kids play speak for your self and you may or may not eat crow down the road.

I have a buddy that is a die hard Mizzou fan and i've watched a lot of this kid. GREAT spin move.... Better than most NFL players... Great get off as previously mentioned, good pursuit. Maybe not the best run stopper but i've seen him stop plenty of RBs in the backfield. The kid is relentless and the kid is still raw. He is still developing his craft having come into football so late.

People arguing for Foster... 30 teams passed on him for a reason. We JUST released DJ... Yet we want to take ANOTHER first round risk on a questionable character player with a shoulder injury out of college? I don't think we could risk taking that exact same road again.... Fins up

Dmac

I have zero problem with saying I was wrong.

Not at all. I'll be glad to say I'm wrong!

It's just that it happens so few times in football terms that it's easy to do, lol.

LD

 

[Sons Of Shula]

So if Lynch was "considering" foster that high and didn't take him, which do you take to be the reality? The talk or the action?

Solomon Thomas is one of the draft's top defenders and Lynch made the right gamble on Foster sliding down.

 

[Vaark]

Apparently Mike Mayock and Daniel Jeremiah value Harris more than do some of the fins folks - Mayock predicting he'd go one pick after Foster at 11 and Jeremiah at 15... for whatever that's worth :idk:

 

[LDaniel7]

Your take of development is that Harris is not ready to see the field, which is actually false. Harris will make an immediate impact as a pass rusher and certainly has the ability to be one of the main DEs in Miami's rotation. As opposed to Olivier Vernon, who came out of Miami with a basically non existent skill at pass rushing, and didn't see the field much in his first several seasons.

Harris' development is one that he will get a lot of playing time while further developing along the way.

Like I said in a previous post (or in another thread), if being a pass rusher was so easy, then why doesn't Terrence Fede do it? Or why are there so many teams in the NFL that struggle getting to the quarterback consistently?

TF is an undrafted major project.

Just because he is pressed into duty on a Miami Dolphins roster devoid of impact talent for years, doesn't make him a good example.

You give me the 3rd and 4th round picks this year that Tannenbaum burned on Carroo last year and I promise you a DEVELOPMENTAL pass rusher who can do everything you're counting on Harris to do the next two years.

LD

 

[Dmac_73]

TF is an undrafted major project.



You give me the 3rd and 4th round picks this year that Tannenbaum burned on Carroo last year and I promise you a DEVELOPMENTAL pass rusher who can do everything you're counting on Harris to do the next two years.

LD

C'mon bro.. That can be said about EVERY position.... But to be real... You're not seeing the upside on Harris. He can make an impact NOW even though he's still developing. This kid could be a great pass rusher for us. He will instantly be our best pass rusher aside from Wake.


Dmac

 

[LDaniel7]

C'mon bro.. That can be said about EVERY position.... But to be real... You're not seeing the upside on Harris. He can make an impact NOW even though he's still developing. This kid could be a great pass rusher for us. He will instantly be our best pass rusher aside from Wake.


Dmac

I HOPE you're right! And Mud Dogs.

If so, I'll be the first to give credit at the end of the year.

LD

 

[Dmac_73]

In the end it's always fins up.... We had a huge need @ edge. We took our player. On to day 2.

Dmac

 

[SCLSU Mud Dogs]

TF is an undrafted major project.

Just because he is pressed into duty on a Miami Dolphins roster devoid of impact talent for years, doesn't make him a good example.

You give me the 3rd and 4th round picks this year that Tannenbaum burned on Carroo last year and I promise you a DEVELOPMENTAL pass rusher who can do everything you're counting on Harris to do the next two years.

LD

So you're saying a third or fourth round DE prospect has the same pass rushing skill as Charles Harris? Then why did Harris get projected in the first round by just about every draft website in existence? That's an untrue assessment and you know it. Charles Harris isn't a "developmental pass rusher". He's the real freaking deal that needs to improve his point of attack against the run. Sacks and pass rush productivity get you paid in the NFL, not the latter. So you find a guy who fits the bill as a damn good pass rusher and improve him against the run along the way.

Also, give me some third or fourth round De prospects who are as polished as Harris.

---------- Post added at 01:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:13 AM ----------

Solomon Thomas is one of the draft's top defenders and Lynch made the right gamble on Foster sliding down.

That wasn't what you said. If Foster was so coveted and "all clear", why did it take until pick 31 for him to get selected? And why did LB needy teams like Arizona and Detroit take different linebackers? Perplexing.

 

[LDaniel7]

So you're saying a third or fourth round DE prospect has the same pass rushing skill as Charles Harris? Then why did Harris get projected in the first round by just about every draft website in existence? That's an untrue assessment and you know it. Charles Harris isn't a "developmental pass rusher". He's the real freaking deal that needs to improve his point of attack against the run. Sacks and pass rush productivity get you paid in the NFL, not the latter. So you find a guy who fits the bill as a damn good pass rusher and improve him against the run along the way.

Also, give me some third or fourth round De prospects who are as polished as Harris.

---------- Post added at 01:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:13 AM ----------



That wasn't what you said. If Foster was so coveted and "all clear", why did it take until pick 31 for him to get selected? And why did LB needy teams like Arizona and Detroit take different linebackers? Perplexing.

Polished? No.

But if you are not looking for an every down player until year two or three, you can find more explosion and potentially equal or greater all-around impact -- by year three, at least.

And no first round draft pick burned.

And I don't see all the polish, btw. I agree that he is MORE polished than others, but if you nitpick his game, you can see sloppiness and telegraphing moves. Honestly, I don't see him getting by with same things on NFL level.

And he's not an all-world athlete. Decent first step, but light in the pants for a DE. And not super explosive.

He's no Freeney.

LD

 

[PHANTASTIC13]

Harris has time to learn under Cameron Wake and Suh teaching him the finer details. You couldn't ask for two better teachers than those two all pros. :up:

 

[RichmondWeb]

McDowell and Chalton were/are the 3 down DEs available at #22, although both need to learn pass rush moves. Both could move inside too. Nobody was pounding the table for them (except me).

RW

 

[Sons Of Shula]

McDowell and Chalton were/are the 3 down DEs available at #22, although both need to learn pass rush moves. Both could move inside too. Nobody was pounding the table for them (except me).

RW

I would have been thrilled with McDowell. One of my top 5 picks for us.

http://www.finheaven.com/showthread.php?384836-Your-top-5-at-22&highlight=

 

[SCLSU Mud Dogs]

Polished? No.

But if you are not looking for an every down player until year two or three, you can find more explosion and potentially equal or greater all-around impact -- by year three, at least.

And no first round draft pick burned.

And I don't see all the polish, btw. I agree that he is MORE polished than others, but if you nitpick his game, you can see sloppiness and telegraphing moves. Honestly, I don't see him getting by with same things on NFL level.

And he's not an all-world athlete. Decent first step, but light in the pants for a DE. And not super explosive.

He's no Freeney.

LD

The Freeney comparison is because of Harris' insane spin move. And he's actually got a great first step with a great motor, along with explosiveness. How would you judge explosiveness? Vertical jump? Broad jump? Harris had a 38 inch vertical jump at his pro day, which is one of the best measurements for explosiveness.

Draft Analyst's Tony Pauline hears that Missouri edge rusher Charles Harris "will be drafted earlier than most people presently project."
According to Pauline's little birdies, Harris is one of "the fastest last-minute movers" as the hour draws nigh for the draft. Earlier this month, Optimum Scouting's Eric Galko reported that "multiple" teams have assigned a top-10 grade for the 6-foot-3, 260-pounder and believes that Harris could be off the board within the first 15 picks

The Sporting News' Eric Galko passes along that Missouri edge rusher Charles Harris has received "multiple" top-10 grades.

NFL Network's Daniel Jeremiah believes Missouri edge rusher Charles Harris is "a stud."
Harris recently climbed 16 spots in Jeremiah's overall rankings and currently sits at No. 19 overall. We loved watching Harris' game, as he was explosive off the line to win within five yards and offered a counter spin versus offensive tackles favoring the outside line. However, his athletic testing was abysmal, placing him in the 9th percentile. What is the truth?

Packers beat writer Bob McGinn spoke to one NFL scout who called Missouri edge rusher Charles Harris "one of the better defensive players in the draft."

 

[Sons Of Shula]

The Sporting News' Eric Galko passes along that Missouri edge rusher Charles Harris has received "multiple" top-10 grades.

Unless that statement was taken out of context that's odd b/c Galko had Harris ranked as the #10 edge defender in his very own Optimum Scouting draft guide.


1. Myles Garrett Texas A&M 9.8
2. Jonathan Allen Alabama 9.3
3. Soloman Thomas Stanford 9.3
4. Jordan Willis Kansas State 8.7
5. Takkarist McKinley UCLA 8.6
6. Taco Charlton Michigan 8.5
7. Carl Lawson Auburn 8.5
8. Derek Barnett Tennessee 8.5
9. Daeshon Hall Texas A&M 8.4
10. Charles Harris Missouri 8.3