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History not working in Ginn's favor

Phanatical

Phanatical

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There is already so much hype surrounding the transition of Miami Dolphins
kick returner Ted Ginn, Jr. into an offensive player that I'm hoping he lives up to the expectations.

The real question, however, isn't whether Ginn can make a significant contribution on that side of the football. It's whether he'll still be able to produce those breathtaking returns that made him so spectacular during College when he sets foot on bigger stage of the NFL.


Originally posted as an article about Devin Hester on NFL.com

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=chadiha_jeff&id=2878477

but I substituted Ginn and presto, so eerily appropriate.
 
sorry ,could'nt read the thread,,ginn gone jr. does'nt care about history when he touches a football.
 
Ginn is a MUCH better receiver than Hester bro. They arnt even compareable on offense.

Hester has worse hands than Will Allen...
 
Phanatical said:
That's the hope.
Click to expand...

Its no hope... its fact...

I aint going to say Ginns hands are amazing. He needs to work on being more consistant... but Hester cant catch the ball at all. They TRIED to use him on offense in Miami... and he couldnt grasp the passes or the playbook. Ginn caught a lot of passes... and a lot of them were downfield passes that are harder to catch.

He needs to be more consistant... no doubt... but Hester isnt even comarable to Ginn in terms of offensive experience and proven ability...

(And I aint even a Ginn lover...)
 
It was a good post Phan. i am pulling for Ginn to make a big splash this season. With CC and Ginn pushing each other, good things are bound to happen.
 
In terms of returning kicks in the NFL it's an apt and viable argument. But it isn't for receiving because Ginn has been groomed at a great football university that last few years to be a receiver and he is a great 'football' player and will be able to learn the ropes.

If all else fails he could probably switch back to CB and do alright there simply because he's so fast.
 
Phanatical said:
There is already so much hype surrounding the transition of Miami Dolphins
kick returner Ted Ginn, Jr. into an offensive player that I'm hoping he lives up to the expectations.

The real question, however, isn't whether Ginn can make a significant contribution on that side of the football. It's whether he'll still be able to produce those breathtaking returns that made him so spectacular during College when he sets foot on bigger stage of the NFL.

After all, it's hard enough to be an electrifying return man in this league. To do it year after year, well, that's proven to be fairly difficult for most players.

This isn't to knock Ginn, who set the Big Ten Conference career record with six touchdowns on 64 punt returns for 900 yards (14.1 avg), and gained 1,012 yards with two scores on 38 kickoff returns (26.6 avg). It's just a fact. Returning kicks takes guts and guile, and recent history really hasn't been very kind to players who make their names with that specialty. In today's NFL, anything can hamper a return man's dominance, whether it's the loss of a couple key blockers, the departure of a special-teams coach, or in the case of Ginn, outright fear by opponents.

The opportunities for Ginn probably aren't going to be what they were at Ohio State because teams know Ginn now. It's tough for good returners because they can go from having 30 to 40 returns one season to 15 or 20 the next. That's a big part of why guys don't keep putting up the same numbers year after year. Kickers kick away from them.

Ginn will slowly work into the offense, but he should be mindful of how other star returners handled that transition. If you want examples, let's point to the most obvious: Dante Hall. The St. Louis Rams recently acquired him in a trade with the Kansas City Chiefs, and you'd be hard pressed to find a returner with a stronger reputation in the league. The man was so dominant during the 2003 season -- when he scored on a return in four consecutive games -- that he received consideration for league MVP honors. Hall was doing Letterman, for God's sake, and his nickname, "X Factor," was a testament to how immediately and substantially he could impact a game.

Dolphins fans shouldn't expect Ginn to duplicate his record-setting Big Ten Conference career record. But just like Hall, there's a reason why Kansas City felt comfortable dealing him to St. Louis for a fifth-round pick. The Chiefs used Hall more as a receiver over the last four years, and though he caught 125 passes during that time, he wasn't much of a difference maker. What's more, that added duty ultimately affected his return skills. After averaging a league-high 16.3 yards per punt return in 2003, Hall averaged just 6.6 in 2005 and 8.9 in 2006. His new head coach, Scott Linehan, said to local reporters that having Hall focus solely on returns again "will enhance [Hall's] ability to get back to where he was."

The second example of a kick returner gone south is Desmond Howard. Playing offense wasn't really his problem because he was never much used as a wide receiver in the first place. It was switching teams that ultimately did him in. Howard went from being the Super Bowl MVP with the Green Bay Packers in 1996 to being just another overpaid, overhyped trophy on Al Davis' roster in Oakland a year later. The Raiders dumped him after two years and he managed to generate only one more impressive season -- a Pro Bowl year in Detroit in 2001 -- before retirement.

Those are just two noteworthy examples for this argument, but I could easily list countless others. Some players, like Carolina's Steve Smith and Baltimore's Derrick Mason, transformed themselves into go-to wide receivers. Others, like New Orleans Saints return man Michael Lewis or Detroit's Eddie Drummond, were just nice stories for a year or two. There are a select few who have managed to generate eye-popping numbers year after year -- Buffalo's Terrence McGee, a cornerback who has made to two trips to the Pro Bowl as a returner, comes to mind -- but even they will fall off eventually.

As for a guy like Ginn, it will be interesting to see what affects his productivity in the coming years. He'll certainly have to deal with more directional kicks and various other schemes by opponents to stop him.
There's also this reality: Big return seasons occur rarely. Waiting for him to terrorize opponents as a return man is like waiting for LaDainian Tomlinson to score 31 touchdowns again. It's a rare occurrence and one that we should feel privileged to have witnessed.

Still, you can also see what others success has done to the league. There's no way their impact didn't factor into the Miami Dolphins' decision to use the ninth overall selection in this year's draft on Ohio State's Ted Ginn Jr., whose explosive return ability eclipsed the fact that he's an unpolished receiver at this stage of his career. There's a good chance that move will give the Dolphins the same type of jolt Ginn provided at Ohio State. However, the odds of Ginn providing that type of excitement over the course of his career are fairly slim.

Sooner or later, even the best returners become mortal. It's just the reality of working a job that requires a player to hurl his body through waves of men who are basically trying to knock him through the turf. That's why I'm hoping Ginn really makes a splash with his new opportunity on offense. If history tells us anything, it's that it will be pretty hard for him to keep thrilling us with his play on special teams.


Originally posted as an article about Devin Hester on NFL.com

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=chadiha_jeff&id=2878477

but I substituted Ginn and presto, so eerily appropriate.
Click to expand...

Bottom line, Ginn has no HISTORY in the NFL, His story starts when he begins to play..he's not all those other guys, he's himself, let him represent himself..and stop using other players to predict how this player will do. Each situation is unique and let's see how this coaching staff sets him up to play in the NFL. Some coaches just don't know how to get the most out of their players, let's see what our coaching staff is able to get out of Ginn. He maybe the steal of the draft, who knows..certainly not all this write up you have..it's about other players, not Ginn.
 
History doesn't always repeat itself...it is up to Ginn to get healed and learn his position. Hopefully Cam will utilize him in the right way. I don't think he is just going to be an overpaid kick returner like the critics claim he will be.
 
Ginn already is a better receiver than Hester. As far the comparison to Dante Hall, Hall was a running back in college. Secondly, Hall is 5'8".
 
bigballin2987 said:
Ginn already is a better receiver than Hester. As far the comparison to Dante Hall, Hall was a running back in college. Secondly, Hall is 5'8".
Click to expand...


The best comparism to Ginn is Desmond Howard not speed wise just overall, although Howard seemes a more polished receiver and Ginn is faster. returnman wise Howard was probably better.
 
Ginn vs Hester is a poor comparison. Hester was a good returner in college who was never able to play any position well enough to become a regular starter while he was at Miami. Ginn was a good returner in college who, while still unpolished at WR, was a gamebreaker on offense who had large parts of the offense tailored directly to his talents.

The thing people seem to miss about Ginn is that he is a "football player"; and no, I am not stating the obvious fact that his occupation is to play professional football. Ginn is a guy like Troy Brown or even the former Phin Wes Welker, he is the type of guy that just "get's it" when it comes to the game of football. This is likely the result of his father being a well respected high school coach, guys that are coaches kids often learn to play the game the way it's meant to be played and have a deep understanding of the game. Ginn is the kind of guy you can line up at most any skill position and make some things happen. In high school he played QB, RB, WR, CB, S, KR and PR. While he was at OSU he played mostly WR, but also had special plays drawn up specifically for him at QB and RB to take advantage of his abilities, and of course he excelled at KR and PR. When watching his many highlight reels I noticed how many different places I saw Ginn line up and how many different ways the team tried to get the ball into his hands; that to me shows that Ginn is a BIG PART of his teams gameplan on a WEEK TO WEEK basis. That fact speaks volumes for his ability on a football field.

Another thing about Ginn is the speed. Hester is a fast guy, but there are a lot of "fast guys" in the NFL. Ginn is a guy who has RARE speed. His speed is special, it is "freakish" in nature, it is the kind of speed that will be on the mind of any defensive coordinator as they set their game plan for us. It's not just the top end speed either, the way he gets to top speed so quickly is really fun to watch. Wait until you see him running past guys you used to think were "fast guys".

Just like EVERY OTHER player drafted this year, we don't know exactly how Ginn will do in the NFL, but the best predictor of future performance is past performance. I, for one, like a lot of the things I have seen from Ginn so far.
 
dlockz said:
The best comparism to Ginn is Desmond Howard not speed wise just overall, although Howard seemes a more polished receiver and Ginn is faster. returnman wise Howard was probably better.
Click to expand...
I think that is probably his best comparison as well. Although, I think he will become a better receiver and be more of a threat at WR year after year, as opposed to Howard.
 
Phanatical said:
There is already so much hype surrounding the transition of Miami Dolphins
kick returner Ted Ginn, Jr. into an offensive player that I'm hoping he lives up to the expectations.

The real question, however, isn't whether Ginn can make a significant contribution on that side of the football. It's whether he'll still be able to produce those breathtaking returns that made him so spectacular during College when he sets foot on bigger stage of the NFL.

After all, it's hard enough to be an electrifying return man in this league. To do it year after year, well, that's proven to be fairly difficult for most players.

This isn't to knock Ginn, who set the Big Ten Conference career record with six touchdowns on 64 punt returns for 900 yards (14.1 avg), and gained 1,012 yards with two scores on 38 kickoff returns (26.6 avg). It's just a fact. Returning kicks takes guts and guile, and recent history really hasn't been very kind to players who make their names with that specialty. In today's NFL, anything can hamper a return man's dominance, whether it's the loss of a couple key blockers, the departure of a special-teams coach, or in the case of Ginn, outright fear by opponents.

The opportunities for Ginn probably aren't going to be what they were at Ohio State because teams know Ginn now. It's tough for good returners because they can go from having 30 to 40 returns one season to 15 or 20 the next. That's a big part of why guys don't keep putting up the same numbers year after year. Kickers kick away from them.

Ginn will slowly work into the offense, but he should be mindful of how other star returners handled that transition. If you want examples, let's point to the most obvious: Dante Hall. The St. Louis Rams recently acquired him in a trade with the Kansas City Chiefs, and you'd be hard pressed to find a returner with a stronger reputation in the league. The man was so dominant during the 2003 season -- when he scored on a return in four consecutive games -- that he received consideration for league MVP honors. Hall was doing Letterman, for God's sake, and his nickname, "X Factor," was a testament to how immediately and substantially he could impact a game.

Dolphins fans shouldn't expect Ginn to duplicate his record-setting Big Ten Conference career record. But just like Hall, there's a reason why Kansas City felt comfortable dealing him to St. Louis for a fifth-round pick. The Chiefs used Hall more as a receiver over the last four years, and though he caught 125 passes during that time, he wasn't much of a difference maker. What's more, that added duty ultimately affected his return skills. After averaging a league-high 16.3 yards per punt return in 2003, Hall averaged just 6.6 in 2005 and 8.9 in 2006. His new head coach, Scott Linehan, said to local reporters that having Hall focus solely on returns again "will enhance [Hall's] ability to get back to where he was."

The second example of a kick returner gone south is Desmond Howard. Playing offense wasn't really his problem because he was never much used as a wide receiver in the first place. It was switching teams that ultimately did him in. Howard went from being the Super Bowl MVP with the Green Bay Packers in 1996 to being just another overpaid, overhyped trophy on Al Davis' roster in Oakland a year later. The Raiders dumped him after two years and he managed to generate only one more impressive season -- a Pro Bowl year in Detroit in 2001 -- before retirement.

Those are just two noteworthy examples for this argument, but I could easily list countless others. Some players, like Carolina's Steve Smith and Baltimore's Derrick Mason, transformed themselves into go-to wide receivers. Others, like New Orleans Saints return man Michael Lewis or Detroit's Eddie Drummond, were just nice stories for a year or two. There are a select few who have managed to generate eye-popping numbers year after year -- Buffalo's Terrence McGee, a cornerback who has made to two trips to the Pro Bowl as a returner, comes to mind -- but even they will fall off eventually.

As for a guy like Ginn, it will be interesting to see what affects his productivity in the coming years. He'll certainly have to deal with more directional kicks and various other schemes by opponents to stop him.
There's also this reality: Big return seasons occur rarely. Waiting for him to terrorize opponents as a return man is like waiting for LaDainian Tomlinson to score 31 touchdowns again. It's a rare occurrence and one that we should feel privileged to have witnessed.

Still, you can also see what others success has done to the league. There's no way their impact didn't factor into the Miami Dolphins' decision to use the ninth overall selection in this year's draft on Ohio State's Ted Ginn Jr., whose explosive return ability eclipsed the fact that he's an unpolished receiver at this stage of his career. There's a good chance that move will give the Dolphins the same type of jolt Ginn provided at Ohio State. However, the odds of Ginn providing that type of excitement over the course of his career are fairly slim.

Sooner or later, even the best returners become mortal. It's just the reality of working a job that requires a player to hurl his body through waves of men who are basically trying to knock him through the turf. That's why I'm hoping Ginn really makes a splash with his new opportunity on offense. If history tells us anything, it's that it will be pretty hard for him to keep thrilling us with his play on special teams.


Originally posted as an article about Devin Hester on NFL.com

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=chadiha_jeff&id=2878477

but I substituted Ginn and presto, so eerily appropriate.
Click to expand...
who knows?:err:
 
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