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History not working in Ginn's favor

Bottom line, Ginn has no HISTORY in the NFL, His story starts when he begins to play..he's not all those other guys, he's himself, let him represent himself..and stop using other players to predict how this player will do. Each situation is unique and let's see how this coaching staff sets him up to play in the NFL. Some coaches just don't know how to get the most out of their players, let's see what our coaching staff is able to get out of Ginn. He maybe the steal of the draft, who knows..certainly not all this write up you have..it's about other players, not Ginn.

I (and the original article) didn't use other players to predict how this player would do. We were using other players to show that historically, punt returners did not have lasting contributions in the NFL. Just noting that he has an uphill battle.
 
There is already so much hype surrounding the transition of Miami Dolphins
kick returner Ted Ginn, Jr. into an offensive player that I'm hoping he lives up to the expectations.

The real question, however, isn't whether Ginn can make a significant contribution on that side of the football. It's whether he'll still be able to produce those breathtaking returns that made him so spectacular during College when he sets foot on bigger stage of the NFL.

After all, it's hard enough to be an electrifying return man in this league. To do it year after year, well, that's proven to be fairly difficult for most players.

This isn't to knock Ginn, who set the Big Ten Conference career record with six touchdowns on 64 punt returns for 900 yards (14.1 avg), and gained 1,012 yards with two scores on 38 kickoff returns (26.6 avg). It's just a fact. Returning kicks takes guts and guile, and recent history really hasn't been very kind to players who make their names with that specialty. In today's NFL, anything can hamper a return man's dominance, whether it's the loss of a couple key blockers, the departure of a special-teams coach, or in the case of Ginn, outright fear by opponents.

The opportunities for Ginn probably aren't going to be what they were at Ohio State because teams know Ginn now. It's tough for good returners because they can go from having 30 to 40 returns one season to 15 or 20 the next. That's a big part of why guys don't keep putting up the same numbers year after year. Kickers kick away from them.

Ginn will slowly work into the offense, but he should be mindful of how other star returners handled that transition. If you want examples, let's point to the most obvious: Dante Hall. The St. Louis Rams recently acquired him in a trade with the Kansas City Chiefs, and you'd be hard pressed to find a returner with a stronger reputation in the league. The man was so dominant during the 2003 season -- when he scored on a return in four consecutive games -- that he received consideration for league MVP honors. Hall was doing Letterman, for God's sake, and his nickname, "X Factor," was a testament to how immediately and substantially he could impact a game.

Dolphins fans shouldn't expect Ginn to duplicate his record-setting Big Ten Conference career record. But just like Hall, there's a reason why Kansas City felt comfortable dealing him to St. Louis for a fifth-round pick. The Chiefs used Hall more as a receiver over the last four years, and though he caught 125 passes during that time, he wasn't much of a difference maker. What's more, that added duty ultimately affected his return skills. After averaging a league-high 16.3 yards per punt return in 2003, Hall averaged just 6.6 in 2005 and 8.9 in 2006. His new head coach, Scott Linehan, said to local reporters that having Hall focus solely on returns again "will enhance [Hall's] ability to get back to where he was."

The second example of a kick returner gone south is Desmond Howard. Playing offense wasn't really his problem because he was never much used as a wide receiver in the first place. It was switching teams that ultimately did him in. Howard went from being the Super Bowl MVP with the Green Bay Packers in 1996 to being just another overpaid, overhyped trophy on Al Davis' roster in Oakland a year later. The Raiders dumped him after two years and he managed to generate only one more impressive season -- a Pro Bowl year in Detroit in 2001 -- before retirement.

Those are just two noteworthy examples for this argument, but I could easily list countless others. Some players, like Carolina's Steve Smith and Baltimore's Derrick Mason, transformed themselves into go-to wide receivers. Others, like New Orleans Saints return man Michael Lewis or Detroit's Eddie Drummond, were just nice stories for a year or two. There are a select few who have managed to generate eye-popping numbers year after year -- Buffalo's Terrence McGee, a cornerback who has made to two trips to the Pro Bowl as a returner, comes to mind -- but even they will fall off eventually.

As for a guy like Ginn, it will be interesting to see what affects his productivity in the coming years. He'll certainly have to deal with more directional kicks and various other schemes by opponents to stop him.
There's also this reality: Big return seasons occur rarely. Waiting for him to terrorize opponents as a return man is like waiting for LaDainian Tomlinson to score 31 touchdowns again. It's a rare occurrence and one that we should feel privileged to have witnessed.

Still, you can also see what others success has done to the league. There's no way their impact didn't factor into the Miami Dolphins' decision to use the ninth overall selection in this year's draft on Ohio State's Ted Ginn Jr., whose explosive return ability eclipsed the fact that he's an unpolished receiver at this stage of his career. There's a good chance that move will give the Dolphins the same type of jolt Ginn provided at Ohio State. However, the odds of Ginn providing that type of excitement over the course of his career are fairly slim.

Sooner or later, even the best returners become mortal. It's just the reality of working a job that requires a player to hurl his body through waves of men who are basically trying to knock him through the turf. That's why I'm hoping Ginn really makes a splash with his new opportunity on offense. If history tells us anything, it's that it will be pretty hard for him to keep thrilling us with his play on special teams.


Originally posted as an article about Devin Hester on NFL.com

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=chadiha_jeff&id=2878477

but I substituted Ginn and presto, so eerily appropriate.

First, I doubt that just returning ko and punts are Cam's sole purpose for Ginn. Second, his threat at OSU was any time he got the ball in his hands, not just for returns. That is why he was drafted where he was.
Third, what he can do for the rest of the skill set players is the unknown factor right now. His ability to loosen up the D, take the 8th player out of the box, open up run lanes and underneath throws will be just as valuable to Cam's offense than his actual numbers. Fourth, if he develops into a #1 WR, the returns will be move to other players. That obviously won't be this year, but could happen down the road.

The problem with the guys you mentioned in the article is that they never developed into a true #1 WR. Now, there are examples of DBs who were great return men thru most of their careers (Sanders, D. Green). The key is how he his used. Even if Cam decides not to use him in the typical WR mold and use him as a threat for reverses, fly patterns, decoys to open up the TE, etc and not as a true, every down WR, we still win. One thing you have to remember, for example about Hall is that he lost Al Saunders, and that is when his effectiveness became expendable as player on the squad. The move for Hester, while rather unprecedented and somewhat controversial, is that they feel their WR corp needs the impact that he can bring and their D is more solid at the DB position.

I'm not a fortune teller and don't know how the Ginn move will work out yet. Give me 10 yrs and I'll tell you for sure, but with the offensive mind we have running the team, he's probably drooling at the thought right now of what he can do. It'll be their job to develop him into the WR mold. There are two things that you can't coach that Ginn has...one is speed and the other is the vision to go along with that speed that he has. Hall doesn't have that elite speed like he did a few years ago. A pr or kr can be schemed against, even those with that speed and vision. But a WR with the ability to scare defenses can do a lot for the rest of the offense...
 
Historically most NFL Players don't have olympic fast speed. Ginn is a playmaker with the ability to take it to the house on every touch. Think Bush/Young last year. No one said they'd come into the league and make defenses look the same way they did in college, but they did.

I'm not worried about what history says.
 
I (and the original article) didn't use other players to predict how this player would do. We were using other players to show that historically, punt returners did not have lasting contributions in the NFL. Just noting that he has an uphill battle.

That article was relevant to Hester because all he is able to do is return punts.

Honestly, all of these questions about Ginn because he can ALSO return kicks are stupid. He was a starting WR at a major division 1 school. He put up better numbers as a WR than his teammate (Gonzalez) who was also drafted in the first round. He put up better numbers as a WR than his former teammate (Santonio Holmes) who was also a first round pick. When Holmes, Ginn, and Gonzalez were all on the team in 2005, Ginn was the starter with Holmes. I haven't heard any questions about Gonzalez being able to make it in the NFL.

All of these talking heads are acting like Ginn was a spot duty receiver in college and was primarily a kick returner. That is simply not true.
 
I love how that article dismisses Steve Smith and Derrick Mason because they went on to be "go-to" wrs. You know what? If Ginn's return yards suffer in the future because he is to busy being our "go-to" wr to field kicks I'm ok with that.
 
Ginn defenders will not take this criticism lightly. Have you not seen Ginn's high school video highlights? The guy was unbelievable. And if high school video highlights isn't the best predictor of NFL success, then nobody knows nothing. Hah!
 
Ginn is his own man, and the recievers/return men that have come before him will have no bearing on whether or not he fails or succeeds in the NFL.
 
I (and the original article) didn't use other players to predict how this player would do. We were using other players to show that historically, punt returners did not have lasting contributions in the NFL. Just noting that he has an uphill battle.

Yea, I know, but you're kind of keeping him to the ST's side of the house only with the comparisons, and I think we drafted him for more than that. Cam is right, generally first year receivers aren't very good, so his contributions in his first year will be with ST's, but then I think he moves more into the WR phase of his life after that and that's why I don't think the comparisons for wise.
 
Bottom line is Tedd Ginn was a very high risk, high reward type pick. I'm betting he will be a bust, but like any true Dolphin fan, I would LOVE to be proven wrong.
 
There is already so much hype surrounding the transition of Miami Dolphins
kick returner Ted Ginn, Jr. into an offensive player that I'm hoping he lives up to the expectations.

The real question, however, isn't whether Ginn can make a significant contribution on that side of the football. It's whether he'll still be able to produce those breathtaking returns that made him so spectacular during College when he sets foot on bigger stage of the NFL.

After all, it's hard enough to be an electrifying return man in this league. To do it year after year, well, that's proven to be fairly difficult for most players.

This isn't to knock Ginn, who set the Big Ten Conference career record with six touchdowns on 64 punt returns for 900 yards (14.1 avg), and gained 1,012 yards with two scores on 38 kickoff returns (26.6 avg). It's just a fact. Returning kicks takes guts and guile, and recent history really hasn't been very kind to players who make their names with that specialty. In today's NFL, anything can hamper a return man's dominance, whether it's the loss of a couple key blockers, the departure of a special-teams coach, or in the case of Ginn, outright fear by opponents.

The opportunities for Ginn probably aren't going to be what they were at Ohio State because teams know Ginn now. It's tough for good returners because they can go from having 30 to 40 returns one season to 15 or 20 the next. That's a big part of why guys don't keep putting up the same numbers year after year. Kickers kick away from them.

Ginn will slowly work into the offense, but he should be mindful of how other star returners handled that transition. If you want examples, let's point to the most obvious: Dante Hall. The St. Louis Rams recently acquired him in a trade with the Kansas City Chiefs, and you'd be hard pressed to find a returner with a stronger reputation in the league. The man was so dominant during the 2003 season -- when he scored on a return in four consecutive games -- that he received consideration for league MVP honors. Hall was doing Letterman, for God's sake, and his nickname, "X Factor," was a testament to how immediately and substantially he could impact a game.

Dolphins fans shouldn't expect Ginn to duplicate his record-setting Big Ten Conference career record. But just like Hall, there's a reason why Kansas City felt comfortable dealing him to St. Louis for a fifth-round pick. The Chiefs used Hall more as a receiver over the last four years, and though he caught 125 passes during that time, he wasn't much of a difference maker. What's more, that added duty ultimately affected his return skills. After averaging a league-high 16.3 yards per punt return in 2003, Hall averaged just 6.6 in 2005 and 8.9 in 2006. His new head coach, Scott Linehan, said to local reporters that having Hall focus solely on returns again "will enhance [Hall's] ability to get back to where he was."

The second example of a kick returner gone south is Desmond Howard. Playing offense wasn't really his problem because he was never much used as a wide receiver in the first place. It was switching teams that ultimately did him in. Howard went from being the Super Bowl MVP with the Green Bay Packers in 1996 to being just another overpaid, overhyped trophy on Al Davis' roster in Oakland a year later. The Raiders dumped him after two years and he managed to generate only one more impressive season -- a Pro Bowl year in Detroit in 2001 -- before retirement.

Those are just two noteworthy examples for this argument, but I could easily list countless others. Some players, like Carolina's Steve Smith and Baltimore's Derrick Mason, transformed themselves into go-to wide receivers. Others, like New Orleans Saints return man Michael Lewis or Detroit's Eddie Drummond, were just nice stories for a year or two. There are a select few who have managed to generate eye-popping numbers year after year -- Buffalo's Terrence McGee, a cornerback who has made to two trips to the Pro Bowl as a returner, comes to mind -- but even they will fall off eventually.

As for a guy like Ginn, it will be interesting to see what affects his productivity in the coming years. He'll certainly have to deal with more directional kicks and various other schemes by opponents to stop him.
There's also this reality: Big return seasons occur rarely. Waiting for him to terrorize opponents as a return man is like waiting for LaDainian Tomlinson to score 31 touchdowns again. It's a rare occurrence and one that we should feel privileged to have witnessed.

Still, you can also see what others success has done to the league. There's no way their impact didn't factor into the Miami Dolphins' decision to use the ninth overall selection in this year's draft on Ohio State's Ted Ginn Jr., whose explosive return ability eclipsed the fact that he's an unpolished receiver at this stage of his career. There's a good chance that move will give the Dolphins the same type of jolt Ginn provided at Ohio State. However, the odds of Ginn providing that type of excitement over the course of his career are fairly slim.

Sooner or later, even the best returners become mortal. It's just the reality of working a job that requires a player to hurl his body through waves of men who are basically trying to knock him through the turf. That's why I'm hoping Ginn really makes a splash with his new opportunity on offense. If history tells us anything, it's that it will be pretty hard for him to keep thrilling us with his play on special teams.


Originally posted as an article about Devin Hester on NFL.com

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=chadiha_jeff&id=2878477

but I substituted Ginn and presto, so eerily appropriate.



Dude, does the sun ever shine in your little world?

There is this misconception out there that Ted Ginn Jr. is a kick returner who might also play WR. Make NO mistake, Tedd Ginn Jr. is an EXCELLENT WR who happens to be an EXCELLENT return man also.
 
How long do you think Ginn will return punts and kicks? Hopefully he will develop into such a player we will not risk him getting hurt returning punts. So I say maybe two years. Do the Panthers risk Steve Smith? Rarely. When he first came into the league he was there return man.
 
How long do you think Ginn will return punts and kicks? Hopefully he will develop into such a player we will not risk him getting hurt returning punts. So I say maybe two years. Do the Panthers risk Steve Smith? Rarely. When he first came into the league he was there return man.
:yeahthat:
 
History? What does history have to do with Ginn jr? His history looks pretty successful.

Kind of reminds me of another 6' tall, World class speedster, who played a different position, who played for Ohio State, who was drafted 11th in the first round... A guy who made history... PAUL WARFIELD.
 
There is already so much hype surrounding the transition of Miami Dolphins
kick returner Ted Ginn, Jr. into an offensive player that I'm hoping he lives up to the expectations.

The real question, however, isn't whether Ginn can make a significant contribution on that side of the football. It's whether he'll still be able to produce those breathtaking returns that made him so spectacular during College when he sets foot on bigger stage of the NFL.

After all, it's hard enough to be an electrifying return man in this league. To do it year after year, well, that's proven to be fairly difficult for most players.

This isn't to knock Ginn, who set the Big Ten Conference career record with six touchdowns on 64 punt returns for 900 yards (14.1 avg), and gained 1,012 yards with two scores on 38 kickoff returns (26.6 avg). It's just a fact. Returning kicks takes guts and guile, and recent history really hasn't been very kind to players who make their names with that specialty. In today's NFL, anything can hamper a return man's dominance, whether it's the loss of a couple key blockers, the departure of a special-teams coach, or in the case of Ginn, outright fear by opponents.

The opportunities for Ginn probably aren't going to be what they were at Ohio State because teams know Ginn now. It's tough for good returners because they can go from having 30 to 40 returns one season to 15 or 20 the next. That's a big part of why guys don't keep putting up the same numbers year after year. Kickers kick away from them.

Ginn will slowly work into the offense, but he should be mindful of how other star returners handled that transition. If you want examples, let's point to the most obvious: Dante Hall. The St. Louis Rams recently acquired him in a trade with the Kansas City Chiefs, and you'd be hard pressed to find a returner with a stronger reputation in the league. The man was so dominant during the 2003 season -- when he scored on a return in four consecutive games -- that he received consideration for league MVP honors. Hall was doing Letterman, for God's sake, and his nickname, "X Factor," was a testament to how immediately and substantially he could impact a game.

Dolphins fans shouldn't expect Ginn to duplicate his record-setting Big Ten Conference career record. But just like Hall, there's a reason why Kansas City felt comfortable dealing him to St. Louis for a fifth-round pick. The Chiefs used Hall more as a receiver over the last four years, and though he caught 125 passes during that time, he wasn't much of a difference maker. What's more, that added duty ultimately affected his return skills. After averaging a league-high 16.3 yards per punt return in 2003, Hall averaged just 6.6 in 2005 and 8.9 in 2006. His new head coach, Scott Linehan, said to local reporters that having Hall focus solely on returns again "will enhance [Hall's] ability to get back to where he was."

The second example of a kick returner gone south is Desmond Howard. Playing offense wasn't really his problem because he was never much used as a wide receiver in the first place. It was switching teams that ultimately did him in. Howard went from being the Super Bowl MVP with the Green Bay Packers in 1996 to being just another overpaid, overhyped trophy on Al Davis' roster in Oakland a year later. The Raiders dumped him after two years and he managed to generate only one more impressive season -- a Pro Bowl year in Detroit in 2001 -- before retirement.

Those are just two noteworthy examples for this argument, but I could easily list countless others. Some players, like Carolina's Steve Smith and Baltimore's Derrick Mason, transformed themselves into go-to wide receivers. Others, like New Orleans Saints return man Michael Lewis or Detroit's Eddie Drummond, were just nice stories for a year or two. There are a select few who have managed to generate eye-popping numbers year after year -- Buffalo's Terrence McGee, a cornerback who has made to two trips to the Pro Bowl as a returner, comes to mind -- but even they will fall off eventually.

As for a guy like Ginn, it will be interesting to see what affects his productivity in the coming years. He'll certainly have to deal with more directional kicks and various other schemes by opponents to stop him.
There's also this reality: Big return seasons occur rarely. Waiting for him to terrorize opponents as a return man is like waiting for LaDainian Tomlinson to score 31 touchdowns again. It's a rare occurrence and one that we should feel privileged to have witnessed.

Still, you can also see what others success has done to the league. There's no way their impact didn't factor into the Miami Dolphins' decision to use the ninth overall selection in this year's draft on Ohio State's Ted Ginn Jr., whose explosive return ability eclipsed the fact that he's an unpolished receiver at this stage of his career. There's a good chance that move will give the Dolphins the same type of jolt Ginn provided at Ohio State. However, the odds of Ginn providing that type of excitement over the course of his career are fairly slim.

Sooner or later, even the best returners become mortal. It's just the reality of working a job that requires a player to hurl his body through waves of men who are basically trying to knock him through the turf. That's why I'm hoping Ginn really makes a splash with his new opportunity on offense. If history tells us anything, it's that it will be pretty hard for him to keep thrilling us with his play on special teams.


Originally posted as an article about Devin Hester on NFL.com

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=chadiha_jeff&id=2878477

but I substituted Ginn and presto, so eerily appropriate.

I really don't care much for these type of generalizations, or the thread title.

Ted Ginn is not any of the examples you used, whether he succeeds or not will be based on his own ability, not other players that also happened to return kicks because of their ability.

Will he be great? Who knows? Time will tell, but history won't.

When I watch Ted Ginn, I see a football player, I don't see Desmond Howard etal.

Remember, Ted Ginn was also perhaps the top Cornerback prospect in the nation coming out of high school, from that standpoint, we could throw Deion Sanders name into the mix as well.

Ted Ginn is also not a 5'9" smurf like many of the other returners have been, so lets just see how it all shakes out.

If Mueller and Cameron end up being wrong on the whole Ginn-Beck VS Quinn-Rice decision, they will almost certainly pay for it with their jobs.
 
I dont know about you guys but, I would say Ginn is more comparable with Santana Moss. I could see Ginn moving away from returning kicks after a couple of seasons. Returning kicks for now will give him a chance to make more of an impact until he becomes a top notch receiver.
 
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