Honest thoughts about starting Rosen | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Honest thoughts about starting Rosen

dsmooth1 said:
Incorrect. First I don't deal with "predictions" - this is the puerile pleasure of little boys. I deal in analytical facts. You have zero information on what this staff actually thinks about any player on this roster, you have zero information about what their future intentions are, you have zero information on how future, unforeseen strategic circumstances may impact the firs two things stated. You talk in rabid assumptions based on incomplete information and no insider position within the front office or staff. Starting a sentence with "if you think" demonstrates you have no idea what you are talking about because it is based on a presumptive assumption. "If you think" is a way people establish strawmen - in actual debate channels it is considered one of the most rudimentary indications that a debative party is simply word-filling. Everything you have said is based on your own perceptions of reality and those perceptions of other opinion-vomiters who have zero access to the information they are attempting to push as "obvious." The same vomit pushers by the way that said the Dolphins were not trading for Rosen, that had zero insight on the purge, nor any information on how the Tunsil trade would actually play out without Clowney involved. Just be honest, you have zero idea what this franchise intends to do with Rosen, how next years draft will play out, who this team is or will be targeting,or even who will be on the 53 man roster next Tuesday. You are completely in the dark and simply regurgitating things you have read or heard, which is fine - every internet mumbler does it- but it does not change the fact that your are nowhere near the decision-making calculus of those being paid to make said decisions over the next 2-3 years. When Rosen starts 8-10 games this year and is in camp next year competing for the starting job will you be willing to admit that you were wrong?
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I don’t understand your aggressive hostility, it’s just a discussion and some opinions. I don’t have to be in the locker room to make an assessment of what the strategy is for this year when I see them trade their starting left tackle for high draft picks in next years draft and the year after without any meaningful depth at either tackle position and big question marks at both guard positions with Ryan freaking Fitzpatrick starting or acting as a crash test dummy behind that same line.

Clearly that is not what a team who is trying to win this year does, no? How are those for analytical facts?

Also if u actually read my post I said that I hope they develop Rosen and that he competes with whomever we draft next year but without getting him killed and his confidence crushed behind this joke of an Oline. Seriously, that was the whole premise of this thread, and I’ve even repeated that assertion in this same thread commenting to other users, so what u talking Bout Willis?
 
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ANUFan said:
Rosen's not a complete scrub. I find it hard to believe a raw rookie is going to come into training came, new to the entire nfl, playbook, and players and beat out a Josh Rosen. Especially a Rosen that has a 1 year..really 2 years leg up on that rookie.
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I agree! Let the best man win! And it may not happen till 2021 if at all! If that is so then we likely have our franchise QB one way or the other, and if the rookie wins in 2020 then how impressive will that be?
 
ANUFan said:
That's one way but you run the great risk of killing the guy youve just drafted confidence. Remember these are kids and I don't care they're the #1 overall pick. They get all of this hype only to lose a QB competition, sit on the bench, and deal with all the public/media stuff of not playing?

Come on...There are very few young kids that can go through that and still end up living up to the #1 draft status.

I hate to say it but you have to coddle and nourish that #1 pick.

Rosen, honestly, likely still in shocked and traumatized by what the Cardinals did to him after 1 year.
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Maybe Im just too old school. If that kid cant handle competition for one of the most demanding (and rewarding) positions in sports, then I don't expect he can be the leader that I want in my franchise QB. I do think you can develop, groom and structure a maturation (my terms for coddling and nourishing) WHILE still having a competition though. That happens with every other position...

I agree to an extent with your assessment with Rosen and believe, to a degree, that is why he is not starting now.
 
There's absolutely nothing clear about this season, if there was the trade Tunsil thread from April would still be active.

It's going to be interesting, and a season long evaluation of all positions.

Anyone saying one way or another is clueless and simply expressing their will.
 
I don’t think we are after Tua or that he is really worth a top 3 pick. I think that if we get the 1st pick, we should trade it.
 
Kyndig said:
It’s clear we are tanking for Tua. Maybe not the coaches and players, but obviously the owner and front office are with the personnel moves they have made.

I’m down with that, it is what it is,it’s the best chance to get a franchise qb that we’ve had since we passed on drafting Rodgers and signing Brees who btw we also could have drafted, but I digress.

I think Rosen has some talent and I would like to see him compete with the QB we draft next year. However, we don’t have two starting NFL caliber tackles and our guard positions are also going to be manned either by rookies or by marginal talents that will need to learn this offense from scratch.

Even max protecting with a full back and tight ends, we are going to struggle with protections for awhile, and I for one don’t want to ruin Rosen ala David Carr. I firmly support the plan to sit Rosen until our line gels and can at least prevent him from getting killed if that’s possible. If that’s not possible, then I am also cool sitting him till next year or very late in the year. He deserves a fair valuation and a fair shot and I think a lively QB competition will only raise everyone’s level of play next year. Just my two cents...
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First, I see no logic in 'taking for Tua.' It could just as easily be 'tanking for Fromm.' No one knows what type of QB Flo will want or how the evaluations of QBs will go. There's a chance Miami will have the #1 pick, but there's also a chance they'll pick 4 or 5 and won't have much of a choice on QB.
And no one knows what criteria Rosen must meet to be 'good enough' in Flo's eyes. Top 10 QB is good enough? Average QB but still not at his ceiling? Did he show he's a quality QB, but was limited by the OL (even Tua lovers admit the OL is bad). Anyone pretending to know is spouting speculation.
Yes, it's possible Miami gets the #1 pick and selects Tua. And it's possible he's the next Montana. That would thrill ANY Miami fan. But there were many guarantees Leaf WILL BE an elite QB. And Russell, and RGIII, and Mariota, and . . .
 
Kyndig said:
To say we have zero information isn’t fair or accurate. In fact, we have a ton of information. If you would prefer, you could change it to “It’s obvious we are tanking this season and will draft the highest rated QB next year” then that’s fine too. If you don’t think we are tanking this season than you are delusional in the face of overwhelming evidence that clearly points to that path.

If you think Josh Rosen will somehow demonstrate he is our franchise QB behind this offensive line, then you are also delusional.

If you think Fitzpatrick will have success this year, again, see above.

Otherwise, what do you predict is going to happen this year and the 2020 draft?
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Oh the common, 'If you don't agree with me, you're delusional.'

You could be right. You could be wrong. The only delusion is thinking you KNOW these things.
 
I don't agree with it but I understand Rosen not starting until week 6, given the opposition, and the line, and the concerns that he won't play it safe like their system requires. I'm more bothered by the now-obvious situation that no matter when he comes in and what he does he's not ever going to be considered a viable long-term option. Such a wasted opportunity, and wasted talent for a guy who has been dealt possibly the two shittiest hands of any rookie QB. I don't know if the demand for a shiny new #1 QB has come from upon high, but it seems a bit narrow-minded, in complete opposition to the plaudits they were getting when they pulled off the trade, and that's concerning. I know people will say that they've seen him in every practice and may already know he won't be good enough, but he's played well in his preseason games and there can't be that much of a difference. So honest thoughts about starting Rosen (or not starting him)? Disappointed. Disappointed in him, disappointed in the coaching team, disappointed that the goalpost keep changing regarding what we're doing, disappointed that a flawed but special passer is only seen as 'a cheap backup for three years', disappointed in the whole sorry situation.
 
EasyRider said:
So tired of hearing “tanking for Tua”. The statement is just dumb. We’re not tanking for anyone. We’re going thru a total rebuild and it’s something that should of happened years and years ago. Too many regimes putting bandaids on things. When this coach was hired and when Grier was stated as the guy picking the groceries Ross made it crystal clear it could take a couple of year but he wanted to finally do it the right way. If you’re not on board with this I question your loyalty as a Fin fan. As bad as we are personnel wise this coach is still going to try to win and play hard fundamental football.
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I agree with a lot of what you've said but the reality is, when you do it this way - and I agree with it - you will lose a lot of games. So whether it is "tanking" or not, the result is the same. You put yourself in a great position to pick top 3 in the draft. No, they will not make in-game decisions to directly lose games. But the personnel they put on the field will likely dictate that they lose more games than had they kept certain players, like Tunsil, Carradine and perhaps MacDonald. So call it an indirect tanking. lol.
 
meatpardle said:
I don't agree with it but I understand Rosen not starting until week 6, given the opposition, and the line, and the concerns that he won't play it safe like their system requires. I'm more bothered by the now-obvious situation that no matter when he comes in and what he does he's not ever going to be considered a viable long-term option. Such a wasted opportunity, and wasted talent for a guy who has been dealt possibly the two ****tiest hands of any rookie QB. I don't know if the demand for a shiny new #1 QB has come from upon high, but it seems a bit narrow-minded, in complete opposition to the plaudits they were getting when they pulled off the trade, and that's concerning. I know people will say that they've seen him in every practice and may already know he won't be good enough, but he's played well in his preseason games and there can't be that much of a difference. So honest thoughts about starting Rosen (or not starting him)? Disappointed. Disappointed in him, disappointed in the coaching team, disappointed that the goalpost keep changing regarding what we're doing, disappointed that a flawed but special passer is only seen as 'a cheap backup for three years', disappointed in the whole sorry situation.
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Let it play out. I don't think a decision has been made on Rosen. I just think they want to be sure they address the QB position with greater certainty. If that means having both Rosen and Tua on the team next year, so be it.
 
For those that think Rosen is gonna start after the bye week. Do you honestly think the oline is gonna be cleaned up by then? Do you think we are gonna get a fair evaluation of him with this offense? This front office has basically closed the book on him for this year. We will draft a QB high in the draft next year. He will compete for the starting job then if he isnt traded for more draft capital.

The kid is getting the raw end of a deal. Lets be honest here. A front office doesnt do what its done when they think they have a young franchise QB on the roster.
 
dsmooth1 said:
Incorrect. First I don't deal with "predictions" - this is the puerile pleasure of little boys. I deal in analytical facts. You have zero information on what this staff actually thinks about any player on this roster, you have zero information about what their future intentions are, you have zero information on how future, unforeseen strategic circumstances may impact the firs two things stated. You talk in rabid assumptions based on incomplete information and no insider position within the front office or staff. Starting a sentence with "if you think" demonstrates you have no idea what you are talking about because it is based on a presumptive assumption. "If you think" is a way people establish strawmen - in actual debate channels it is considered one of the most rudimentary indications that a debative party is simply word-filling. Everything you have said is based on your own perceptions of reality and those perceptions of other opinion-vomiters who have zero access to the information they are attempting to push as "obvious." The same vomit pushers by the way that said the Dolphins were not trading for Rosen, that had zero insight on the purge, nor any information on how the Tunsil trade would actually play out without Clowney involved. Just be honest, you have zero idea what this franchise intends to do with Rosen, how next years draft will play out, who this team is or will be targeting,or even who will be on the 53 man roster next Tuesday. You are completely in the dark and simply regurgitating things you have read or heard, which is fine - every internet mumbler does it- but it does not change the fact that your are nowhere near the decision-making calculus of those being paid to make said decisions over the next 2-3 years. When Rosen starts 8-10 games this year and is in camp next year competing for the starting job will you be willing to admit that you were wrong?
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Bravo!

Take a bow!

:woot:
 
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