Hoops scoops...the importance of tempo

[J. David Wannyheimer]

the tempo of phillys play had absolutely nothing to do with chip Kelly getting fired...if anything it helped prop up his concepts

Chip Kelly got fired because he demanded full personnel control and then promptly did a lot of stupid things with personnel.

 

[hoops]

Chip Kelly got fired because he demanded full personnel control and then promptly did a lot of stupid things with personnel.

yeah that but I think also that the nfl regardless of tempo was catching up with his concepts...he's got short of changing how he goes about things up one bullet left in the chamber nfl wise...the true run threat athlete qb

he didn't have it in philly

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

To me, this was the #1 disappointment of Bill Lazor's time in Miami. He was supposed to bring a "Chip Kelly" style tempo offense to Miami, but it just turned into slow dink and dunk, with a quick abandonment of the running game and zone read.

I don't think that it was ever Bill Lazor's intention to bring that offense here. He always bristled when his offense was compared to Chip Kelly's, and it's because their passing game concepts are completely different. Although we borrowed a lot from the Eagles in terms of the run game (which was good), Lazor supposedly had a mandate from Philbin to build an 'ultra modern' passing game that would create a high volume of high efficiency short pass attempts to supplement / replace the run game. It's tough to know if you can blame the lousy passing game concepts on Philbin or Lazor, but the right answer is probably "both of them."

Philbin certainly isn't completely blameless, and I go back to what Mike Sherman said about Joe Philbin in 2013 when there was that first players mutiny against the coaching staff. Sherman said that he was just fine with running the ball more, but that Joe was dead-set against it, and would tell him to stop rushing the ball if the team wasn't getting chunk plays out of it. Very few teams can run an effective offense like that, and certainly not with an inexperienced quarterback.

Really, though, when you go back and look at the 2014-2015 Dolphins offense on the game film, it's kind of stunning how ineffective we were from a schematic standpoint, since we were very simple, very predictable, and only attacked a short part of the field. We mostly used horizontal routes, and I think SoS already pointed out recently that when we faced zone coverage, our deep routes were quite literally dummy routes. The quarterback was only allowed to throw it deep against man coverage, and this was a bigger problem for us in 2015 after teams had seen a lot of film and figured this out. As a consequence, most teams we faced played a lot of zone, and the result was a lot of three yard crossers and some very angry quarterbacks and receivers.

Amusingly, we got our best passing game performance of the season in week 17 against one of the best pass defenses we faced, and we got it because a 30 year old guy who was completely unqualified to be an offensive coordinator changed that up and the offense was essentially "**** it, go deep." We still completed about 65% of our pass attempts in that game, even though there were multiple low percentage vertical shots that wound up being incomplete. And of course, the ones we did hit were game-changers.

 

[Sons Of Shula]

Hoops, I hope you don't mind me slightly de-railing your thread slightly but this was something we were all discussing in chat and it has to do with playcalling.

In Pistol Strong, the play is designed to get one deep receiver isolated in a mismatch. When I wrote about it in November, the deep man was Fitzgerald, on Cleveland safety Donte Whitner. Fitzgerald had Whitner beaten by a couple of steps, but the ball fell about four to six inches past the receiver’s lunging dive. This time John Brown and Michael Floyd started from the left, Brown streaking to the post in the Fitzgerald role, and Floyd running the deep cross. Tight end Darren Fells was Palmer’s hot man, just beyond the flat, and Fitzgerald, from a tight right spot next to the right tackle, flashed across the formation, underneath the two deeper routes.

“We called it earlier in the game,” Arians said, “but Carson audibled to a run. This time I told him to stay with it—I thought something would be there. That’s the ‘divide’ play. You’re going to get an open man.”

“That’s Bruce,” Fitzgerald said. “A savant. He just knows.”

Second-and-goal from the five now.

“Since the start of training camp last year, we’ve had this play we’ve practiced I’d say almost every week,” Fitzgerald said. “I bet we’ve practiced it 30 to 40 times. Bruce was just waiting for the right time.”

Palmer in shotgun. Brown in motion from left to right. Quick snap. If the defensive end bears down on Palmer, he flips to Fitzgerald, who tried to find a crease in the line so he can burrow into the end zone. If the flow goes to Fitzgerald, Palmer keeps and throws a fade into the end zone.

“There are plays you just save for times like this,” Arians said. “I thought they would pay so much attention down there to [running back] David Johnson, and they’d never seen this on tape, Larry taking it.”

“Why Bruce picks this time, I don’t know, but he just knew,” Fitzgerald said.

Snap, flip to Fitzgerald, Lyle Sendlein and Mike Iupati pave the way, and it’s not even that hard. Larry Fitzgerald has never taken a Favrian flip from the quarterback in the middle of the line of scrimmage and run it through the line for a touchdown. It’s not just the imagination of a play like that. It’s the shock of it. The timing, the situation. Practice made perfect. It looked so natural, like they’d rehearsed it 30 to 40 times over the past two years. That’s because they had. That’s what great play-callers with great players do.

Link: MMQB by Peter King

That's what I (we) yearn for. Bruce Arians had saved that TD winning OT play for 2 years. That's a m'f'n playcaller; that's a real HC.

 

[DANTODUPER]

Tempo sounds great, until it doesn't work and you just end up putting your defense right back on the field.

Philly found that out the hard way this season.

I agree on this with hoops, because I think we have the right personel to do it. WR's and RB are ideal for that offensive strategy. The only thing we need is that kind of TE that can land some quick passes in the traffic, Cameron has not demonstrated that trait thus far. maybe Sims and a FA/Draft pick we could land. Second thing we need and I think that is the most important is: We need a QB that can take advantage of some things he sees faster. Tannehill must improve his decision making abilities, like if he sees some defender misplaced, he should attack him and do a short count to exploit it, or if we have a free play he needs to try a long pass instead of keeping the original play. I've seen lots of games in which Tom Brady makes lots of big plays just by identifying presnap which defensive players are not well positioned, and taking advantage of defensive offsides and short passes in the middle whe the box is not full. That is an advantage you must take when you run tempo and the defense is trying to catch on. Quick decisions by the QB are fundamental on the success of that kind of offense. Hope Tannehill is up to the task. He has the athletism and the physical tools, he just needs to prove he is Smart enough. Now that Lazor and Philbin are out, he must prove he can make his own good decisions if we are going to be succesful with the tempo.

 

[Sons Of Shula]

I agree on this with hoops, because I think we have the right personel to do it. WR's and RB are ideal for that offensive strategy. The only thing we need is that kind of TE that can land some quick passes in the traffic, Cameron has not demonstrated that trait thus far. maybe Sims and a FA/Draft pick we could land. Second thing we need and I think that is the most important is: We need a QB that can take advantage of some things he sees faster. Tannehill must improve his decision making abilities, like if he sees some defender misplaced, he should attack him and do a short count to exploit it, or if we have a free play he needs to try a long pass instead of keeping the original play. I've seen lots of games in which Tom Brady makes lots of big plays just by identifying presnap which defensive players are not well positioned, and taking advantage of defensive offsides and short passes in the middle whe the box is not full. That is an advantage you must take when you run tempo and the defense is trying to catch on. Quick decisions by the QB are fundamental on the success of that kind of offense. Hope Tannehill is up to the task. He has the athletism and the physical tools, he just needs to prove he is Smart enough. Now that Lazor and Philbin are out, he must prove he can make his own good decisions if we are going to be succesful with the tempo.

That's coaching, game planning and scheme. Obviously it takes a player to execute it but BB's genius is taking difficult situations & information and making it simple.

 

[xXwarXx]

I agree on this with hoops, because I think we have the right personel to do it. WR's and RB are ideal for that offensive strategy. The only thing we need is that kind of TE that can land some quick passes in the traffic, Cameron has not demonstrated that trait thus far. maybe Sims and a FA/Draft pick we could land. Second thing we need and I think that is the most important is: We need a QB that can take advantage of some things he sees faster. Tannehill must improve his decision making abilities, like if he sees some defender misplaced, he should attack him and do a short count to exploit it, or if we have a free play he needs to try a long pass instead of keeping the original play. I've seen lots of games in which Tom Brady makes lots of big plays just by identifying presnap which defensive players are not well positioned, and taking advantage of defensive offsides and short passes in the middle whe the box is not full. That is an advantage you must take when you run tempo and the defense is trying to catch on. Quick decisions by the QB are fundamental on the success of that kind of offense. Hope Tannehill is up to the task. He has the athletism and the physical tools, he just needs to prove he is Smart enough. Now that Lazor and Philbin are out, he must prove he can make his own good decisions if we are going to be succesful with the tempo.

Its not like we haven't tried to play with tempo, we have, it just didn't work for whatever reasons.

The execution just wasn't there. Also a big part of high tempo offenses is setting up that big play once it gets going.

Big plays aren't exactly something this team excels at executing.

Philly also found this out the hard way. Bradford was scared to throw downfield, agholor didn't replace Maclin, bradford isnt movile, oline got worse, and the big plays disappeared this season, and the offense didn't work.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

Its not like we haven't tried to play with tempo, we have, it just didn't work for whatever reasons.

We only went to a hurry up during the two minute drill under Lazor. It wasn't until Lazor was fired and Zac Taylor was made the interim OC that we saw the Dolphins running out of the hurry-up in other game situations.

As far as big plays, we actually were one of the top teams in the NFL in 40+ yard pass plays this year. Top 5 range, IIRC.

 

[Sons Of Shula]

Its not like we haven't tried to play with tempo, we have, it just didn't work for whatever reasons.

Prove it.

First off, under Lazor the only time we ran anything similar to tempo and/or HUNH was in the last 2 minutes before the half and our offense was often successful.

Second, after we purged ourselves of the incompetent staff, we ran an up tempo offense against the Patriots and well, those results speak for themselves.

*Wanny's got it covered.

 

[NBP81]

Its not like we haven't tried to play with tempo, we have, it just didn't work for whatever reasons.

The execution just wasn't there. Also a big part of high tempo offenses is setting up that big play once it gets going.

Big plays aren't exactly something this team excels at executing.

Philly also found this out the hard way. Bradford was scared to throw downfield, agholor didn't replace Maclin, bradford isnt movile, oline got worse, and the big plays disappeared this season, and the offense didn't work.

Define big play?

 

[russianbear]

Its not like we haven't tried to play with tempo, we have, it just didn't work for whatever reasons.

The execution just wasn't there. Also a big part of high tempo offenses is setting up that big play once it gets going.

Big plays aren't exactly something this team excels at executing.

Philly also found this out the hard way. Bradford was scared to throw downfield, agholor didn't replace Maclin, bradford isnt movile, oline got worse, and the big plays disappeared this season, and the offense didn't work.

When we used tempo it was usually in the 2 minute drills, and it worked well.

Also, we were #8 in the NFL in 20+passing plays, #5 in 40+passing plays, #9 in 20+ rushing plays, and #20 in 40+ rushing plays (for some context we had 1 40+ yard rushing play and #9 on the list only had 2)....

So, as usual, a lot of the stats and trends you quote in your post are statistically incorrect.....

 

[xXwarXx]

We only went to a hurry up during the two minute drill under Lazor. It wasn't until Lazor was fired and Zac Taylor was made the interim OC that we saw the Dolphins running out of the hurry-up in other game situations.

As far as big plays, we actually were one of the top teams in the NFL in 40+ yard pass plays this year. Top 5 range, IIRC.

This isn't true, we tried to run high tempo under Sherman also.

If you can find the games from philbin/shermans first year you'll see them try to run it often early in the season. It was a disaster.

---------- Post added at 01:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:02 PM ----------

Prove it.

First off, under Lazor the only time we ran anything similar to tempo and/or HUNH was in the last 2 minutes before the half and our offense was often successful.

Second, after we purged ourselves of the incompetent staff, we ran an up tempo offense against the Patriots and well, the those results speak for themselves.

*Wanny's got it covered.

You did it for me.


And can please stop holding onto a meaningless win vs the patriots as if we won some damn super bowl. It's sad...

---------- Post added at 01:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:04 PM ----------

When we used tempo it was usually in the 2 minute drills, and it worked well.

Also, we were #8 in the NFL in 20+passing plays, #5 in 40+passing plays, #9 in 20+ rushing plays, and #20 in 40+ rushing plays (for some context we had 1 40+ yard rushing play and #9 on the list only had 2)....

So, as usual, a lot of the stats and trends you quote in your post are statistically incorrect.....

A lot of that is garbage time stats.

If we had so many big plays than why was our offense ranked so low? But I'll be the first to admit those stats are better than I expected.

And I actually didn't post my ststs or trends, I just said our offense doesn't get the big plays often. If it did tannehill & our offense Would have the stats/wins to prove it.

 

[Sons Of Shula]

And can please stop holding onto a meaningless win vs the patriots as if we won some damn super bowl. It's sad...

Let's begin here:

Spoiler

6 ways to improve reading comprehension & 7 tools of dialogue

Click to follow the links :up:

 

[russianbear]

This isn't true, we tried to run high tempo under Sherman also.

If you can find the games from philbin/shermans first year you'll see them try to run it often early in the season. It was a disaster.

---------- Post added at 01:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:02 PM ----------



You did it for me.


And can please stop holding onto a meaningless win vs the patriots as if we won some damn super bowl. It's sad...

---------- Post added at 01:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:04 PM ----------



A lot of that is garbage time stats.

If we had so many big plays than why was our offense ranked so low? But I'll be the first to admit those stats are better than I expected.

every team in the nfl had some of their +20 or +40 plays in garbage time...so, you can't prove to me that we had any more or less "garbage time" big plays than anyone else....

and our offense was ranked low for a plethora of reasons, but your post claimed (incorrectly) that we weren't effective at executing big plays. you are wrong. we actually finished top part of the league in that department. i don't know why that is hard for you to grasp, but a lot of your posts seem to throw around ideas and beliefs that just aren't true....

 

[hoops]

miamis the only team I know of that in "garbage time" didn't play with tempo

like literally the ONLY team so if you ask me given that miamis garbage time statistics should carry more weight than teams that did...at least from a stand point of allowing a team to match personnel and dial up more things and one that tried to do something else to help the oline the qb and the offense in general

that's why I was impressed with what ryan tannehill was able to do against the jets in the 2nd half of that road game...it should have been we match personnel we dial up blitz packages you can't change plays you are completely one dimensional we tee off on your qb and shut you out

but it didn't happen like that cause ryan tannehill isn't your average qb