How high are you willing to pay Wilkins? | Page 6 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

How high are you willing to pay Wilkins?

Your cap on Wilkins contract?

  • Total voters
    215
Marino2.0 said:
I think you may have unintentionally edited the quoted language. I didn’t say if “our” DT is making that many tackles something has gone wrong. I said in most systems, if “your” DT is making so many tackles, something has gone wrong.

That’s because in most systems, a defensive tackle’s job is to occupy blockers and funnel ball carriers to the linebackers. In those systems, it’s a linebacker’s job to shoot the gaps and make tackles around the line of scrimmage — the defensive tackle’s job is to keep the linebackers clean.

For example, both of our starting DTs had 70+ tackles last year. Aaron Donald, a player many regard as the best defensive tackle of all time, has had more than 70 tackles once in his career and has had fewer than 50 tackles in 6 out of his 9 seasons in the NFL. For his career, he averages about 3 tackles per game.

Our system under Boyer was abnormal. We let our DTs basically freelance and play like oversized linebackers while our linebackers mostly played shell coverage as though they were safeties. It’s not like they were making these tackles in the backfield. Of Wilkins and Sieler’s combined 168 tackles last year, 23 were for loss. They only had 7 sacks combined.
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It was unintentional. Backspaced too far lol.

Not buying your argument, though.

I agree with you as far as defensive philosophy of how it is designed to operate. You can't convince me that an interior Dlineman having a buttload of tackles is a bad thing as it relates to a specific player, in this case, CW.

We aren't talking about the viability of the previous scheme. We are talking about the individual level of play of Wilkins. I think it's universally accepted that he is a damn good player and teammate, who also infuses energy on GameDay.

That's not to say I think we should pay too 3-5 money. I don't.
 
1972forever said:
They will have the money under the cap to sign him once they cut Jones. Presently they don’t have the cap space to sign him to a new contract.
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He is playing on the option this year, so that is largely irrelevant. They could pay him more than the option year, but when you can manipulate contract numbers for cap purposes, why would they? Any extension would likely include a large signing bonus that would be amortized over the length of the contract (or longer if there are void years ((not a good idea))), and could be structured to actually reduce his cap number for this year.

I guess I'm saying I really doubt Jones' money has anything to do with it. You may be right, but I don't see a logical connection of how that would impede getting a deal done.
 
Mach2 said:
It was unintentional. Backspaced too far lol.

Not buying your argument, though.

I agree with you as far as defensive philosophy of how it is designed to operate. You can't convince me that an interior Dlineman having a buttload of tackles is a bad thing as it relates to a specific player, in this case, CW.

We aren't talking about the viability of the previous scheme. We are talking about the individual level of play of Wilkins. I think it's universally accepted that he is a damn good player and teammate, who also infuses energy on GameDay.

That's not to say I think we should pay too 3-5 money. I don't.
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I agree with you. That wasn’t my intended the point. The point I was trying to make is that for most teams, schematically, if your DT is making a bunch of tackles, something is wrong. I don’t blame the individual DT—on the contrary, the DT is probably overcompensating for something about the defense that is broken.

Put more simply, my point was just that most other DTs around the league are not being asked to perform a role that allows them to rack up tackles in the way the Dolphins allowed their DTs to rack them up. So it’s not apples to apples, and I wouldn’t treat the fact that both of our DTs were Top 5 in the NFL in tackles as ultra meaningful.

I think a lot of what an interior defensive lineman does cannot be measured with individual statistics, but to the extent you’re looking at stats, I think TFLs and sacks are much better indicators. Wilkins tied for 4th among interior DL in TFLs—very good. He was not in the top 20 for sacks—not great. And I think that fairly reflects what he is: a guy who plays a lot of snaps and makes a lot of good plays in the running game, but not among the league’s better defensive linemen in pressuring the passer.
 
Marino2.0 said:
I agree with you. That wasn’t my intended the point. The point I was trying to make is that for most teams, schematically, if your DT is making a bunch of tackles, something is wrong. I don’t blame the individual DT—on the contrary, the DT is probably overcompensating for something about the defense that is broken.

Put more simply, my point was just that most other DTs around the league are not being asked to perform a role that allows them to rack up tackles in the way the Dolphins allowed their DTs to rack them up. So it’s not apples to apples, and I wouldn’t treat the fact that both of our DTs were Top 5 in the NFL in tackles as ultra meaningful.

I think a lot of what an interior defensive lineman does cannot be measured with individual statistics, but to the extent you’re looking at stats, I think TFLs and sacks are much better indicators. Wilkins tied for 4th among interior DL in TFLs—very good. He was not in the top 20 for sacks—not great. And I think that fairly reflects what he is: a guy who plays a lot of snaps and makes a lot of good plays in the running game, but not among the league’s better defensive linemen in pressuring the passer.
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Good morning brother. His stats speak volumes. Sacks aren't the end all stat. He helps sets the table for his teammates to play meet you at the QB. If I am Grier I am working very hard to get an agreement and when the Byron Jones money is freed up put it to good work.

:ffic:
 
Mach2 said:
He is playing on the option this year, so that is largely irrelevant. They could pay him more than the option year, but when you can manipulate contract numbers for cap purposes, why would they? Any extension would likely include a large signing bonus that would be amortized over the length of the contract (or longer if there are void years ((not a good idea))), and could be structured to actually reduce his cap number for this year.

I guess I'm saying I really doubt Jones' money has anything to do with it. You may be right, but I don't see a logical connection of how that would impede getting a deal done.
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I am just going by the report that MCDaniel has stated that they are working to sign Wilkins to a new contract. So I just assumed that after they cut Jones, they will have more money available under the cap to sign him to a new contract.
Yet as you stated, they can manipulate the salary cap to work out a deal for him. As long as they eventually resign him to a new contract before he hits free agency after the 2023 season is really all I care about.
 
Marino2.0 said:
I agree with you. That wasn’t my intended the point. The point I was trying to make is that for most teams, schematically, if your DT is making a bunch of tackles, something is wrong. I don’t blame the individual DT—on the contrary, the DT is probably overcompensating for something about the defense that is broken.

Put more simply, my point was just that most other DTs around the league are not being asked to perform a role that allows them to rack up tackles in the way the Dolphins allowed their DTs to rack them up. So it’s not apples to apples, and I wouldn’t treat the fact that both of our DTs were Top 5 in the NFL in tackles as ultra meaningful.

I think a lot of what an interior defensive lineman does cannot be measured with individual statistics, but to the extent you’re looking at stats, I think TFLs and sacks are much better indicators. Wilkins tied for 4th among interior DL in TFLs—very good. He was not in the top 20 for sacks—not great. And I think that fairly reflects what he is: a guy who plays a lot of snaps and makes a lot of good plays in the running game, but not among the league’s better defensive linemen in pressuring the passer.
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To that point, to be fair, shouldn't he then get a bit of a break on his lower than "elite" sack numbers? I mean if he's chasing guys down all over the field that are not his responsibility.
 
Mach2 said:
To that point, to be fair, shouldn't he then get a bit of a break on his lower than "elite" sack numbers? I mean if he's chasing guys down all over the field that are not his responsibility.
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He should, yes. I’d also cite his high percentage of snaps as something that could change. It’s very possible his sack numbers go up and other numbers go down under Fangio.

That’s one reason I wouldn’t mind waiting on an extension if he won’t take $16-$18 million per year. Let’s see what he looks like in Fangio’s scheme before we break the bank. We can still control him on the non-exclusive franchise tag in the event he looks phenomenal.
 
Marino2.0 said:
He should, yes. I’d also cite his high percentage of snaps as something that could change. It’s very possible his sack numbers go up and other numbers go down under Fangio.

That’s one reason I wouldn’t mind waiting on an extension if he won’t take $16-$18 million per year. Let’s see what he looks like in Fangio’s scheme before we break the bank. We can still control him on the non-exclusive franchise tag in the event he looks phenomenal.
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That's a reasonable view. I don't mind paying the man, but no reason to overpay at this point.
 
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