How much of the blame gets put on Spielman? | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

How much of the blame gets put on Spielman?

Spielman was in charge of one draft...last years. He did a good job in last years draft.

Before that he was a scout. All he could do was RECOMMEND players to Idiotstedt.

Spielman's tenure as G.M. will be judged on 3 things. The A.J. Feeley trade, the Wally Ogunleye trade and the Vernonn Carey draft pick.

Let's look at these three events from my point of view:

Feeley: "He overpaid for a 3rd stringer!" is the common theme around here. First of all Feeley was not a third stringer. If McNabb ever got hurt for an extended length of time Feeley was the guy.

Spielman looked at our quarterback position and saw a wasteland. No backup, no future and a starter that had already proven he could'nt lead the team anywhere.

He saw his options. He was'nt going to be able to draft one of the top guys (Losman, Rivers, Manning or Big Ben) and had to do something. Feeley ws highly thought of in a lot of circles around the league. There is a reason the Eagles put a first round tender on the guy. The Eagles don't overpay for anyone yet they found it neccasary to put a tender onn a guy that would overpay him. I think I trust the Eagles front office's judgement more then the "I hate Feeley" crowd around here.

"A 2nd rounder is too much!!!!!"

THROUGHOUT THE HISTORY of the NFL Q.B.'s are always overvalued (see Rob Johnson, Matt Hasselbeck, Mark Brunell, just to name recent history).

Rick did'nt know we woyuld be picking that high. I'm damn sure he thought it would be a 2nd rounder that was almost a 3rd (we'd be picking in the mid 20's)

Wannstedt screwed Feeley. We all know Feeley had ZERO chance to be starter coming out of training camp.

The biggest mistake Spielman mae was allowing Idiotstedt to talk him into resigning Fiedler. That put a steak through the heart of Feeley's development for half a season.

Rick took a risk, something that Wanny would never do. The book is far from closed on this transaction.

Wally Ogunleye: He got a high third rounder and Marty Booker for Wally. Wally was'nt going to play here again. He wanted Jason Taylor money. We already had a massive inbalance of salary cap space allocated to the defensive side of the ball and signing Wally was not in the cards.

Ogunleye was not worth J.T. money. Yes, Wally is a good player but he is not a top 5 defensive end so paying him out would have made no sense.

Wally was going to hold out, sign the tender to get his year in (week 10) and then be unrestricted. Yes, we could have franchised him but that price tag would have been worse then the contract he wanted and it would have been a one year fix...he was going to walk.

Spielman got something instead of nothing.

Vernon Carey: With the exception of VERY FEW POSTERS ON THIS BOARD who wanted Wilfork (it sure seems those people have come out of the woodwork even though I recall at the time very few wanted him over Carey) Carey was the best option for us at the time.

"We need O-line, we NEED O-LINE!!!!!" was the common phrase screamed from the rooftops around here. Could you imagine the roasting Rick would have recieved if he took a D-lineman over an O-lineman? It is revisionist history to say "Wilfork was the pick".

Carey got screwed over last year. He had an idiot for an O-line coach, a head coach who changed his position twice before he played a snap and then changed it again. Wannstedt had no intention of giving Carey a chance.

B.T.W....when Carey did play last year I thought he was pretty good. To call him a bust already is absurd.

In closing I'll just say that good scouts are hard to find and Spielman is a good scout. He'll be hired quickly because teams know this. It's a shame he is thought of in the same breath as Idiotstedt.

I wish Rick luck now that he is out of that loser's shadow.
 
i wasnt in favor of him as GM, but would have loved for us to keep him as a scout. to his credit, hes overqualified for that
 
unifiedtheory said:
Let's look at these three events from my point of view:

Feeley: "He overpaid for a 3rd stringer!" is the common theme around here. First of all Feeley was not a third stringer. If McNabb ever got hurt for an extended length of time Feeley was the guy.

.
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Agree with everything except the above. Feeley was the third stringer - he got time because Detmer, the 2nd stringer, was also hurt.
 
The blame for last year goes 80% Ricky Williams and 20% Wanny. Speilman is a VERY TALENTED personel guy.
 
Can you imagine the hell Spielman went through in his first year at Phinz GM???...I cringe just thinking about it.....

All things considered, I think RS did an excellent job as GM. His draft was very solid in 2004. Every single player, with the exception of Carey / Pape contributed as rookies. How many of Jimmy's / or Wanny's drafts can you say that about???.......um.......NONE.

This team was nothing but a heap of **** when Rick was given the power to become GM, and I can honestly say no other GM I know of could have handled it much better. The only major mistake Rick made was his decision to trade a 2nd rounder for AJ Feeley. But that's not even settled yet....

Imagine if Rick had gone ahead and done what most fans wanted him to at the QB position. Like sign M. Brunnell instead. Wow, now that would have been a huge mistake, and yet nobody gives him credit for going with the younger, more promising QB in Feeley. His options were thin, old, and most of which were more expensive than Feeley. If Feeley / Carey ever turn out to be what we're all hoping for, there will be alot of fans here who will regret talking trash about Rick today....

Thanks Rick!!!...I wish you the very best....

PHINZ RULE!!!!
 
unifiedtheory said:
Spielman was in charge of one draft...last years. He did a good job in last years draft.
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So far this thread should be headlined, "One Last Chance For Spielman's Apologists To Line Up and Be Wrong."

Many of the posters who are making excuses for Spielman in this thread and others have been insisting we would keep him, since he was no longer in charge of trade decisions, etc. There have been frequent comments like, "get used to him becuase he's not going anywhere." Frankly, that was base ignorance. Spielman has been as good as gone ever since Saban was hired. As I wrote several times, if the brass (owner) had an unfavorable opinion of Spielman personally, he would have been jettisoned immediately. Since the opposite was the case, he was allowed to save face and protect his future in the league by remaining with the team for one more draft. I predicted several times that Spielman would quietly resign after the draft but before the season. That was hardly brilliant. It was mere common sense, like the Surtain trade would occur at the edge of the deadline (draft day) and no one would trade up with us since the players atop the draft were blanketed in ability.

Unfortunately, Spielman did not limit himself to one draft. We were nowhere near that fortunate. He spread his tentacles all over the 2005 draft as well via the Feeley trade and the Gordon trade. In fact, we should have been much better off in this year's draft if he hadn't botched the Ogunleye trade. That wasn't close to equal value. Posters on this board do a remarkable job at overstating the worth of Booker, a nice little complimentary receiver and nothing more. Pass rushers are at a premium, especially from the left DE spot where monster rushers are much more rare. We had a young proven talent in his prime.

In fact, Spielman is never given sufficient blame for the timing of his pathetic moves. He buckled on Feeley insanely early. Who was our competition at surrendering a #2? A wise and ballsy GM would have dragged that out and explored other possibilities, not fallen in love with a 3rd stringer and immediately paid the asking price. Also, teams forge their roster and identity for an entire offseason, with target date the season opener. If you try to disrupt that continuity immediately before the season opens, naturally you will be asked to pay more than market value for a player the other team is counting on. Spielman traded Ogunleye on the brink of the season opener when no one was going to give us a good deal. Then he compounds the stupidity by nabbing Gordon a week later. If Gordon had sat behind Faulk and Jackson for a few weeks with nil carries, the price would have plummeted.

And by what worldy criteria was the 2004 draft a good job? We were already short in bullets then Spielman impersonates a scared rabbit and donates the 4th for Carey. That disqualifies any positive rating of that draft. It was the most imcompetent move I've ever seen. I literally pulled over en route to San Diego and screamed into the desert sky. The rest of the guys like Bua and Hadnot are just names, very little more. Fans on this board are seemingly amazed when any late draft pick makes the roster and go ga-ga over the pick. Newsflash: it's only 7 rounds. Check the league numbers. A very high percentage of late rounders stick in this era. You need the low salaries and special teams aspect to allow for the big bucks elsewhere. Will Poole was a very good value, otherwise mediocre mush.
 
speilman does definitely get a bad rap around here, i'm not terribly sad to see him go, manily because saban needs a guy that he's on the same mental page with like all good championship teams there is a great connection with Gm and coach. Bellichick and Pioli... Holmgren and Wolf never had as much success without eachother..


gotta keep in mind, until last year around this time, Wannstedt had more control over personnell.
 
unifiedtheory said:
He saw his options. He was'nt going to be able to draft one of the top guys (Losman, Rivers, Manning or Big Ben) and had to do something.
losman was there at #20.
rick essentially forced the franchise to rebuild. he showed that he was not ready to be a g.m. and should have stayed a personnel man. he purged the roster, panicked and made dumb trades for feeley, gordon, and booker, took a f*ckin' guard with a 1st round pick and traded a 4th rounder to do so, hired a rookie offensive coordinator that brought snickers from people in the league, and put out on the field one of the shiznittiest dolphin teams i've ever seen in my life, with or without ricky. we had no o-line? yea, b/c rick cut just about every o-lineman we had. qbs sucked? yea, b/c rick resigned fiedler and bet the house on feeley. this dude is fair personnel guy, but has no idea how to make the pieces fit.
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Phishstix said:
losman was there at #20.
rick essentially forced the franchise to rebuild. he showed that he was not ready to be a g.m. and should have stayed a personnel man. he purged the roster, panicked and made dumb trades for feeley, gordon, and booker, took a f*ckin' guard with a 1st round pick and traded a 4th rounder to do so, hired a rookie offensive coordinator that brought snickers from people in the league, and put out on the field one of the shiznittiest dolphin teams i've ever seen in my life, with or without ricky. we had no o-line? yea, b/c rick cut just about every o-lineman we had. qbs sucked? yea, b/c rick resigned fiedler and bet the house on feeley. this dude is fair personnel guy, but has no idea how to make the pieces fit.
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You are right. Then forcing Marino to quit, buying weed for Ricky Williams, coaching the offensive linemen and getting them confused on their blocking assignments, not covering Larry Fitzgerald against the Cardinals, causing hurricanes to cut practices short, telling gordon to turn inside when he should of turned outside causing an interception for a touch down, also he sucked at pass blocking. Rick Spielman is the worst man in history.
 
doesn't matter, thats the past--lets look to the future--who do you think will take his place, that bloke from the bucs:)
 
Depends on how good or bad Carey and Feeley turn out. If neither of them start this year which is a possibility than he gets alot of blame for setting the franchise back a season or two.
 
Didn't Get a Great Shot

I never felt like Spielman got a great shot. His one year as GM, he had a coaching staff that can't develop players and refuses to give guys like Carey and Feeley a chance to play. For that reason, those two players are big question marks as the season approaches.

That said, yes he deserves some blame. Feeley may yet develop, but he came at a steep price in what proved to be nearly a #1 pick. It will be interesting to see if Feeley is given a chance under Saban. If he does develop maybe fans will think a little differently about Spielman.

Carey vs. Wilfork will also be debated, especially considering that it's difficult to find quality DT's and Wilfork seemed to fall into Miami's lap.
 
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