Howdy from Houston again | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Howdy from Houston again

We can't do a sign and trade of Ogun! Whatever signing bonus he gets would be assessed to our cap number for 2004. DE's are getting around $12-15 million in bonus money.

What we can do is tender Ogun with a 1st and 3rd and trade our #1 to Houston for Henson. Then either:

1) Get our #1 and Houston's #3 back when they sign Ogun, or
2) We get Houston's #1 and agree to waive the #3 in the deal

Would you rather have the #10 overall pick with one third rounder (ours) or the #20 overall pick with two third rounders (ours and theirs)?

I prefer the #10 overall pick and use that as bait to trade down and get a later first rounder and maybe a second and more.
 
hmm.. while i understand your perspective, yours seems about as logical as mine does :). Thats to be expected though, a teams fans always want the best possible scenario.

Honestly, Henson is already being ranked by some as the #4 quarterback available this year.. under Eli, Ben, and Phillip. SO while its possible he would still be available at your #20 spot.. it is not 100%.. its not even 50% when you consider that you have the Cardinals, Chargers, Raiders, Giants, Steelers, and Bills ahead of you.. all teams looking to upgrade at QB. (or get a solid heir to replace the aging Bledsoe in the bills case)

Also.. while it is true that Henson will get a huge say in where he goes (because if we try to force him to go to a team he doesnt want to, he can just enter the draft) you gotta keep in mind that he cant just point to a team and say "take whatever they will give you, im going to them". There are plenty of factors in this that will keep the texans from getting screwed out of a good trade. (besides, our staff is too smart to put themselves in a situation where they have to take a 7th rounder in 2024 because drew says he wants to go there. there are more clauses in his contract than we know about)

For 1, he will probably find more than one team he would be willing to play for. He has stated that he wants a team who he is comfortable playing for (he likes the coaching staff) and who will trust him and build around him (he wants to be the franchise QB) and who will start him this year (pretty much limits the bills chance of getting him, probably GB too) SO, unless he just becomes totally enamored with the dolphins and wont play for anyone else.. you arent going to be able to throw a 3rd rounder out there and force us to take it. You will probably have some competition and it will come down to who makes the better deal.

NOW.. i dont think we are gonna be too greedy. But we would expect a trade that is fair. I mean look at it from your perspective, a QB is yalls #1 priority this off season right? well at the 20th pick, yall arent likely to get one of the best QBs available.. so by giving us your first rounder this year.. you would actually be getting a good deal, since if he entered the draft you have a good chance of not getting him. But, this is all up in the air.. he has proven that he still has the talent, now he has to prove if he has the demeanor. The combine will be interesting.. if the other top QBs work out, we will get to see about where henson falls.

oh, and a 2nd rounder next season? cmon.. he is worth a second rounder THIS season. it would at LEAST cost a 1st rounder next season.. assuming that henson doesnt do anything stupid to lower his value.

I would love for us to trade him to the cardinals for their first rounder.. we could maybe pick up Sean Taylor AND Kenechi Udeze :) ..wouldnt that be awesome hehe. (like i said, we always want the best deal for our team.. as unlikely as it is)
 
Originally posted by Grid
hmm.. while i understand your perspective, yours seems about as logical as mine does :). Thats to be expected though, a teams fans always want the best possible scenario.

Honestly, Henson is already being ranked by some as the #4 quarterback available this year.. under Eli, Ben, and Phillip. SO while its possible he would still be available at your #20 spot.. it is not 100%.. its not even 50% when you consider that you have the Cardinals, Chargers, Raiders, Giants, Steelers, and Bills ahead of you.. all teams looking to upgrade at QB. (or get a solid heir to replace the aging Bledsoe in the bills case)

Also.. while it is true that Henson will get a huge say in where he goes (because if we try to force him to go to a team he doesnt want to, he can just enter the draft) you gotta keep in mind that he cant just point to a team and say "take whatever they will give you, im going to them". There are plenty of factors in this that will keep the texans from getting screwed out of a good trade. (besides, our staff is too smart to put themselves in a situation where they have to take a 7th rounder in 2024 because drew says he wants to go there. there are more clauses in his contract than we know about)

For 1, he will probably find more than one team he would be willing to play for. He has stated that he wants a team who he is comfortable playing for (he likes the coaching staff) and who will trust him and build around him (he wants to be the franchise QB) and who will start him this year (pretty much limits the bills chance of getting him, probably GB too) SO, unless he just becomes totally enamored with the dolphins and wont play for anyone else.. you arent going to be able to throw a 3rd rounder out there and force us to take it. You will probably have some competition and it will come down to who makes the better deal.

NOW.. i dont think we are gonna be too greedy. But we would expect a trade that is fair. I mean look at it from your perspective, a QB is yalls #1 priority this off season right? well at the 20th pick, yall arent likely to get one of the best QBs available.. so by giving us your first rounder this year.. you would actually be getting a good deal, since if he entered the draft you have a good chance of not getting him. But, this is all up in the air.. he has proven that he still has the talent, now he has to prove if he has the demeanor. The combine will be interesting.. if the other top QBs work out, we will get to see about where henson falls.

oh, and a 2nd rounder next season? cmon.. he is worth a second rounder THIS season. it would at LEAST cost a 1st rounder next season.. assuming that henson doesnt do anything stupid to lower his value.

I would love for us to trade him to the cardinals for their first rounder.. we could maybe pick up Sean Taylor AND Kenechi Udeze :) ..wouldnt that be awesome hehe. (like i said, we always want the best deal for our team.. as unlikely as it is)
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NO WAY possible we give up our first for Henson. If he re-entered, the draft we would definitely be able to secure Rivers or Henson. One or both would be there for sure and we know this. I see him going somewhere for a CONDITIONAL second rounder in 2005 that could turn into a first if certain conditions (that aren't likely to occur) are met. OGUN is currently more valuable than Henson on the market.
 
if you are sure you could get henson with your first pick.. why risk it? just get him now and you wont be surprised on draft day :p plus you will have to pay him more.
 
Originally posted by Grid
There are plenty of factors in this that will keep the texans from getting screwed out of a good trade. (besides, our staff is too smart to put themselves in a situation where they have to take a 7th rounder in 2024 because drew says he wants to go there. there are more clauses in his contract than we know about)
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He is not under contract. If he were under contract, he would not be able to enter the draft.

Henson holds all of the cards and can determine where he wants to play.

If he re-enters the draft, Houston will get NOTHING!
 
Originally posted by Grid
if you are sure you could get henson with your first pick.. why risk it? just get him now and you wont be surprised on draft day :p plus you will have to pay him more.
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Simple we prefer Rivers. Why give up our first pick for Henson when we have a legit shot at Rivers? The lower pay part does help the situation. That is a very solid point.
 
Originally posted by Grid
if you are sure you could get henson with your first pick.. why risk it? just get him now and you wont be surprised on draft day :p plus you will have to pay him more.
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Risk it because this is a very talented draft. ALL of those teams you named were on the fence for drafting a QB, plus we have another pick coming from O-gun. Why would we give our #20 pick for a player that's been out of football for 3 years, and only played 8 games in college? It's a rediculous idea! Henson is in NO place to make demands. If he doesn't "want" to go somewhere, then you guys lose out on a low pick, and he enters the draft where he gets absolutely no say in where he goes. He'll settle if he needs to, less he ends up somewhere he doesn't want to be. Miami might not be the first choice for him or your team, but it would be stupid of him to try to dictate where he goes.
 
I posted this in another thread.

Here is my plan. Too bad I am not the GM for the 'Phins:

I would offer our first this year (with conditions) for Henson, and start negotiating immediately so I can get this guy into camp voluntarily, and he can start learning our playbook.

CONDITIONS:

We Tender Ogunleye at a 1st and 3rd.

Houston agrees to sign Ogunleye at the above tender.

We get our original 1st back and their third.

We end up getting Henson for Ogunley and Houstons third round pick.

Houston gets Ogunleye for Henson and a Third round pick.
CONDITIONS:
 
With that deal...

we gain a third round pick, and an iffy QB.

Yet we lost a first round pick in the process.

In essence, you just gave a first round pick (higher than 20 in most scenarios) for a QB that's been out of the game for 3 years. Why not just let O-gun go where he wants, get 2 firsts, use it on a WR and OL, and snag Henson for a 2nd next year (what he's worth).
 
doesnt matter if he played 8 games or 4 solid years.. if he proves in his workout and in meetings that he is a quality QB..then he will demand a quality QBs price. If yall had a second rounder I could see how we may be able to make a deal.. but you have a 1st and a 3rd.. i dont see us taking a 3rd for him.. and you would be spending your first on a QB anyway.. so trading it to us for Henson seems like a good idea to me.

Now, if you prefer rivers more, I can see why you may take a chance, but you WILL be taking a chance.. there is no garuntee that you will see rivers available at #20. Manning and Roethlisberger will be gone quick.

I would not be against us taking a 2nd rounder for Henson.. or a 3rd rounder and a quality defensive player. And I wouldnt like it, but i could see us taking a 1st rounder in next years draft... but less than that and we are getting robbed.

You can say whatever you want, but Henson has proved he has the physical skills.. if he can show that he has the mental skills as well.. then he is worth a high price.

We DID only spend a 6th rounder for him though.. so if we have to take a trade that isnt quite giving us what he is worth.. i imagine we will, but anyone who expects to grab him without giving us a damn thing.. well.. open your eyes :p this is the NFL.. you gotta give in order to get, and nothing is ever a sure thing.

We will trade Henson though.. he wont be available in the draft, so dont expect that. Henson has already said that he wants to pick the team he plays for.. so he isnt gonna go into the draft and give that up.
 
Conditional second rounder in 2005 is more than fair. Like you said, you got him for a sixth rounder.
 
so lemme get this straight.. we give you henson and a third rounder for the privilege of taking ogunleye? .....

Isnt he gonna be available in free agency anyway?

why stop there.. why dont you trade us jay fiedler for our 2nd rounder.. we will then trade you david carr for your 1st and our second.. then we will trade you back jay fiedler and our 1st and 2nd and 4th for ricky williams.. we then trade you BACK ricky williams and your 1st for david carr and your 5th.

there.. now you have our 1st 2nd 3rd and 4th pick.. and we dont have jack to show for it. oh.. except your 5th rounder.

that sounds like a good deal to me.
 
Originally posted by Grid
so lemme get this straight.. we give you henson and a third rounder for the privilege of taking ogunleye? .....

Isnt he gonna be available in free agency anyway?

why stop there.. why dont you trade us jay fiedler for our 2nd rounder.. we will then trade you david carr for your 1st and our second.. then we will trade you back jay fiedler and our 1st and 2nd and 4th for ricky williams.. we then trade you BACK ricky williams and your 1st for david carr and your 5th.

there.. now you have our 1st 2nd 3rd and 4th pick.. and we dont have jack to show for it. oh.. except your 5th rounder.

that sounds like a good deal to me.
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1. o-gun is not going to be a FA anyway, he's an RFA, if he stays the team will make it for the long haul

2. that is a stupid trade in itself, YOU should give us your #10, and Henson for O-gun.
 
Originally posted by unclemonty
Conditional second rounder in 2005 is more than fair. Like you said, you got him for a sixth rounder.
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I agree. Especially since there is a chance no team is wiiling to pay a high price and he goes back into the draft!
 
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