Hyde: Fangio was critical of the offense

[phintim]

This isn’t even close to accurate. First, let’s not understate just how much the Titan loss was on Vic, and just how damaging the loss was. Even if the rest of the regular season played out EXACTLY the same way, if Miami doesn’t gack up the lead to Tennessee, they finish as the AFC East Champs, the 2 seed, and would have been hosting an awful Pittsburg team in Round 1.

I also put more of the blame of the Baltimore fiasco on Vic and the Defense. If we go back and look at that game, Miami and the offense actually came out swinging and it was a dog fight after 1 qtr. Tyreke dropping a for sure TD, and the defense giving up huge play after huge play is what got that game out of hand and fast. McD certainly isn’t without blame for that loss, but I’m not sure what more the offense was supposed to do when the defense is literally giving up career days to Lamar and several other Baltimore offensive players. Sure, McD and Tua started pressing but I’m not sure you can blame them when it was more than obvious we wouldn’t be getting any defensive stops.

Maybe more importantly, I don’t remember McD, Tua, or anybody else on offense chucking Fangio’s D under the bus with backbiting. Fangio was petty, not as good as advertised, and was obviously in Miami for a 1 year paycheck. A hallmark of great teams is sometimes an offense or a defense isn’t having a great day, so the other side picks up the slack and gets the job done. It’s a concept that still seems to evade Fangio even with all his years of experience. I hope he enjoys next season in Philly, coaching under an HC that just got finished making his previous coaching staff sacrificial lambs in an attempt to save his own ass.

I’m happy Vic’s gone, I’m happy with his replacement, and I hope there’s a time in the not too distant future where we’re not even discussing the crotchety old prick. Sending him on his way was a win-win for all parties.

Its actually pretty accurate, let's come back the second half of next year and see how happy you will be with this new defensive coordinator. While I can hope your right the defensive stats will tell the truth when we compare this year's stats with next year. First year coordinator with no DC head coach experience it's going to be a long shot Weaver can pull anything off based on that and the player turnover on that side of the ball but hey here for hoping for a small miracle and those aqua sunglasses work next year.

 

[fishfanmiami]

Its actually pretty accurate, let's come back the second half of next year and see how happy you will be with this new defensive coordinator. While I can hope your right the defensive stats will tell the truth when we compare this year's stats with next year. First year coordinator with no DC head coach experience it's going to be a long shot Weaver can pull anything off based on that and the player turnover on that side of the ball but hey here for hoping for a small miracle and those aqua sunglasses work next year.

He was DC at Houston for one year on a very bad team

Point is he's done this before

 

[Fred Bear]

Its actually pretty accurate, let's come back the second half of next year and see how happy you will be with this new defensive coordinator. While I can hope your right the defensive stats will tell the truth when we compare this year's stats with next year. First year coordinator with no DC head coach experience it's going to be a long shot Weaver can pull anything off based on that and the player turnover on that side of the ball but hey here for hoping for a small miracle and those aqua sunglasses work next year.

I got a idea let's just fire everyone including the fans lol

 

[Aqua Man]

Its actually pretty accurate, let's come back the second half of next year and see how happy you will be with this new defensive coordinator. While I can hope your right the defensive stats will tell the truth when we compare this year's stats with next year. First year coordinator with no DC head coach experience it's going to be a long shot Weaver can pull anything off based on that and the player turnover on that side of the ball but hey here for hoping for a small miracle and those aqua sunglasses work next year.

Kinda hard to project what a post Fangio defense will or won’t do considering our amount of pending defensive free agents as well as having a few massive producers coming back from major injuries.

We won’t even have an inkling of what Weaver will have to work with until after free agency, the draft, and getting more of an idea when guys like Phillips and Chubb will return.

At this point, I only know one thing for sure about Miami’s defense: They got rid of a guy that had ZERO interest in being here or having a collaborative relationship with our HC and replaced him with a guy who’s genuinely excited to be the DC of the Miami Dolphins. That alone does not ensure success but it sure as hell feels like a step in the right direction.

 

[phintim]

Kinda hard to project what a post Fangio defense will or won’t do considering our amount of pending defensive free agents as well as having a few massive producers coming back from major injuries.

We won’t even have an inkling of what Weaver will have to work with until after free agency, the draft, and getting more of an idea when guys like Phillips and Chubb will return.

At this point, I only know one thing for sure about Miami’s defense: They got rid of a guy that had ZERO interest in being here or having a collaborative relationship with our HC and replaced him with a guy who’s genuinely excited to be the DC of the Miami Dolphins. That alone does not ensure success but it sure as hell feels like a step in the right direction.

While I can appreciate your perspective here's mine. Not sure how long you have been a phins fan or your age but I have been for a long time and am old enough that I am tired of the shiny new toys the Dolphins brass have kept parading out since Shual was run out of town.
The best record we have had since Shula departure was under Dave W. A coach not liked by most fans. That tells you our front office has failed for years.
But you presented some facts so I will present mine.
Currently the one person I have some hope can turn the corner next year is McDaniel.
That hope is can he build a offense that does not require Hill and Waddle to be on the field. Facts are once those guys
got banged up our offense sputtered and failed to score many points the second half of the season.
Tua comes up second on my confidence meter. Tua stayed healthy all season for the first time in years and we got a chance to see how good he can be. Good enough to win the Super Bowl probably. Good enough to carry the team by himself I haven't seen it. Bigger than that the question can Tua continue to stay healthy his past record says probably not.
Next guy up is actually Weaver who has done nothing as a coordinator to judge. Pretty sad that a rookie DC can inspire more confidence than the following.
Grier resume is a D plus. His position stirs the pot for a team that any team requires talent both at the coaching and player level. What's happened we got a ton of talent for tank for Tua trade that produced numerous mainly first round picks that are now looking to get paid. After that Grier gave away the rest of his picks for high priced free agents who came with huge salaries who are getting paid. So now we are in cap hell next year hoping Grier can find cheap players and have a decent draft with late round picks.
Crossman ST coach is still around after 2 failed years why? A decent GM and coach would have a better option I have almost 0 in this guy.

Getting back to Vic he went to a organization that has a much better track record than the phins these past few years that have been to the Superbowl, proven they can recognize and aquire talent at a reasonable price compared to our GM and jumped to aquire Vic.

 

[Aqua Man]

While I can appreciate your perspective here's mine. Not sure how long you have been a phins fan or your age but I have been for a long time and am old enough that I am tired of the shiny new toys the Dolphins brass have kept parading out since Shual was run out of town.
The best record we have had since Shula departure was under Dave W. A coach not liked by most fans. That tells you our front office has failed for years.
But you presented some facts so I will present mine.
Currently the one person I have some hope can turn the corner next year is McDaniel.
That hope is can he build a offense that does not require Hill and Waddle to be on the field. Facts are once those guys
got banged up our offense sputtered and failed to score many points the second half of the season.
Tua comes up second on my confidence meter. Tua stayed healthy all season for the first time in years and we got a chance to see how good he can be. Good enough to win the Super Bowl probably. Good enough to carry the team by himself I haven't seen it. Bigger than that the question can Tua continue to stay healthy his past record says probably not.
Next guy up is actually Weaver who has done nothing as a coordinator to judge. Pretty sad that a rookie DC can inspire more confidence than the following.
Grier resume is a D plus. His position stirs the pot for a team that any team requires talent both at the coaching and player level. What's happened we got a ton of talent for tank for Tua trade that produced numerous mainly first round picks that are now looking to get paid. After that Grier gave away the rest of his picks for high priced free agents who came with huge salaries who are getting paid. So now we are in cap hell next year hoping Grier can find cheap players and have a decent draft with late round picks.
Crossman ST coach is still around after 2 failed years why? A decent GM and coach would have a better option I have almost 0 in this guy.

Getting back to Vic he went to a organization that has a much better track record than the phins these past few years that have been to the Superbowl, proven they can recognize and aquire talent at a reasonable price compared to our GM and jumped to aquire Vic.

Like you, I’ve been a diehard Dolphin fan for a long time- 42 years to be exact. I apologize, but after reading your post, I’m not quite sure what you’re getting at and I’m not even sure we really disagree about much.

It does seem like you think losing Fangio is a big loss and that he’s on to greener pastures. After his 1 year stay in Miami, I’m just not impressed. It seems as if he at least attempted to reneg after initially accepting the Miami DC job, or at the very least put the brakes on while he waited for another opportunity. He followed that up by refusing to play our 2nd round draft pick, distancing himself from the rest of the coaching staff while trying to cast all of the blame at the feet of the offense. His final act was weaseling out of his contract so he could get to Philly. The man never wanted to be here and McD corrected his original mistake of hiring him in the first place by letting him walk. I have zero interest in retaining an ornery old prick that acts like a bitter old woman. The man obviously knows how to coach a defense but he didn’t want to be in Miami, didn’t like coaching for Miami and our 2024 results weren’t going to be better even if McD moved heaven and earth to keep him here. I like the hire of Weaver as the DC as he at least seems extremely excited to be in the position of DC for the Miami Dolphins but he has a MASSIVE amount of work ahead of him. There’s a good chance our defensive personnel looks considerably different than what Fangio had to work with and we’ll still most likely be waiting for the return of Phillips and Chubb when the season kicks off.

 

[Jamesw]

Like you, I’ve been a diehard Dolphin fan for a long time- 42 years to be exact. I apologize, but after reading your post, I’m not quite sure what you’re getting at and I’m not even sure we really disagree about much.

It does seem like you think losing Fangio is a big loss and that he’s on to greener pastures. After his 1 year stay in Miami, I’m just not impressed. It seems as if he at least attempted to reneg after initially accepting the Miami DC job, or at the very least put the brakes on while he waited for another opportunity. He followed that up by refusing to play our 2nd round draft pick, distancing himself from the rest of the coaching staff while trying to cast all of the blame at the feet of the offense. His final act was weaseling out of his contract so he could get to Philly. The man never wanted to be here and McD corrected his original mistake of hiring him in the first place by letting him walk. I have zero interest in retaining an ornery old prick that acts like a bitter old woman. The man obviously knows how to coach a defense but he didn’t want to be in Miami, didn’t like coaching for Miami and our 2024 results weren’t going to be better even if McD moved heaven and earth to keep him here. I like the hire of Weaver as the DC as he at least seems extremely excited to be in the position of DC for the Miami Dolphins but he has a MASSIVE amount of work ahead of him. There’s a good chance our defensive personnel looks considerably different than what Fangio had to work with and we’ll still most likely be waiting for the return of Phillips and Chubb when the season kicks off.

You and PhinTim are both right. But just like most divorces, there are 2 sides with the truth being somewhere in the middle. But none of it matters. Now we must focus on moving forward in a difficult CAP situation and with many un-answered questions. 5 of the most important are:

1. Is Tua our future? I want him to be and hope he is! I don't KNOW he is!
2. Can we minimize any losses to Free Agency with our CAP situation?
3. Can we finally draft some quality core pieces on the OL?
4. Can Weaver bring a more violent and physical performance from our D?
5. Can McD continue to improve and evolve as an HC?

 

[EJay]

We scored 30 or more points 8 times last season.

It happened 4 out of the first 6 games and then 4 times in the last 12 games.

And YET they still finished top 2 or 3 in most worthwhile offensive categories.

And fielded a receiver with the most receiving yards and TD receptions in the league, as well as the QB with the most passing yards, as well as a RB with the most rushing TD’s. Go figure.

Some fans just always see the glass as being “half empty” no matter the overall results.

 

[EJay]

We were a below average defense period end of story

#21 in points allowed, below average.

He sucked

It is absolutely hilarious that a team can boast a top 3 offense statistically — with a receiver leading the league in yardage and TD’s, a RB leading the league in rush TD’s and a QB leading the league in pass yards — YET they receive the lion-share of ire from Dolphins fans versus an average at best defense with no league leaders.

I’m trying to place myself back in the late 90’s and early 2000’s when the Dolphins defense had Jason Taylor piling up double digit sacks and winning DPOY with game-changing turnovers, a stud linebacker in Zach Thomas, two stud corners in Madison and Surtain, and two stud defensive lineman in Bowens and Gardner — all while fielding a very pedestrian offense — and trying to imagine Dolphins fans of the era placing blame on defense for the teams failures.

I’m just not remembering it happening.

It’s this befuddled younger fanbase, I swear. That’s the difference. They live in an alternate reality where everything is upside down and backwards.

 

[Bob512]

At this point, I only know one thing for sure about Miami’s defense: They got rid of a guy that had ZERO interest in being here or having a collaborative relationship with our HC and replaced him with a guy who’s genuinely excited to be the DC of the Miami Dolphins. That alone does not ensure success but it sure as hell feels like a step in the right direction.

I think this is an important point.

Regardless of who did what in the relationship, Fangio didn't really have his heart into being here. Replacement him with someone who is emotionally invested in the job and it's potential success is a huge positive change in my opinion

 

[fansinceGWilson]

And YET they still finished top 2 or 3 in most worthwhile offensive categories.

And fielded a receiver with the most receiving yards and TD receptions in the league, as well as the QB with the most passing yards, as well as a RB with the most rushing TD’s. Go figure.

Some fans just always see the glass as being “half empty” no matter the overall results.

The good news is the O put up good numbers . . . against losing teams. The bad news is, against teams with winning records, Miami's O averaged a little over 18ppg, TT averaged 216 passing yards with a QB rating of 83, and the O scored a whopping 10 TDs - less than 2 /game. Only *ONE* TD in 4Q on a drive of 17. In those games, Mostert scored twice.

Don't know about anyone else, but I see a pattern.

 

[gofins60]

And YET they still finished top 2 or 3 in most worthwhile offensive categories.

And fielded a receiver with the most receiving yards and TD receptions in the league, as well as the QB with the most passing yards, as well as a RB with the most rushing TD’s. Go figure.

Some fans just always see the glass as being “half empty” no matter the overall results.

The good news is the O put up good numbers . . . against losing teams. The bad news is, against teams with winning records, Miami's O averaged a little over 18ppg, TT averaged 216 passing yards with a QB rating of 83, and the O scored a whopping 10 TDs - less than 2 /game. Only *ONE* TD in 4Q on a drive of 17. In those games, Mostert scored twice.

Don't know about anyone else, but I see a pattern.

Stats can be misleading if you don't look at them in the proper context. For example, let's say that Miami scored 70 points not only against the Broncos, but also against the Panthers, Commanders, Giants, and twice against the Jets. This would set a new scoring record of 624 points in a season.

Now, subtract one TD from the Chargers game and one FG from the Cowboys game and they're down to 614 points, which would still be a new record. However, instead of being 11-6, Miami would be 9-8. In this scenario, the team with a record-breaking, top-scoring offense would miss the playoffs.

So, at the end of the day, stats mean nothing. Wins get you to the playoffs, and wins against good teams allow you to advance in the playoffs. If you want to reach the Super Bowl, you need to be able to consistently beat good teams. Sure, beating a team by 50 points and having a top-scoring offense looks great on paper, but there's no such thing as a "handicap" or "extra-credit" in the NFL that would allow a team with less wins to move up in the Seedings over a team with more wins.

 

[lurking]

Who wasn’t critical of the offense, I saw bitching about it the last 8/9 weeks of the regular season.
There were some sucking the kool-Aid that saw nothing though.

 

[fansinceGWilson]

Stats can be misleading if you don't look at them in the proper context. For example, let's say that Miami scored 70 points not only against the Broncos, but also against the Panthers, Commanders, Giants, and twice against the Jets. This would set a new scoring record of 624 points in a season.

Now, subtract one TD from the Chargers game and one FG from the Cowboys game and they're down to 614 points, which would still be a new record. However, instead of being 11-6, Miami would be 9-8. In this scenario, the team with a record-breaking, top-scoring offense would miss the playoffs.

So, at the end of the day, stats mean nothing. Wins get you to the playoffs, and wins against good teams allow you to advance in the playoffs. If you want to reach the Super Bowl, you need to be able to consistently beat good teams. Sure, beating a team by 50 points and having a top-scoring offense looks great on paper, but there's no such thing as a "handicap" or "extra-credit" in the NFL that would allow a team with less wins to move up in the Seedings over a team with more wins.

Stats can be used as indicators and nothing else. Full year stats mean little. stats against winning teams vs losing teams is a HUGE indicator.

 

[Trade Viper]

At this point, I only know one thing for sure about Miami’s defense: They got rid of a guy that had ZERO interest in being here or having a collaborative relationship with our HC and replaced him with a guy who’s genuinely excited to be the DC of the Miami Dolphins. That alone does not ensure success but it sure as hell feels like a step in the right direction.

Hey A, when I sit down, with OPM (other peoples money, ya'll didn't think I was able to make money with just my account did you), it is a great responsibility, my clients demand and deserve my undivided attention and, for the time it is in the market, dedication. VF did not want to be here, it was evident by the way things were going with his hiring, also he did not BUY into the "Collaborative" effort, also the D was not that great, 20th in points against. I don't really think his "heart" was in it, and he was just here for the $$$$$, and all of the rumors, ya know where there is smoke...........

I am glad he is gone, and we hope the new guy is better.

The Ever Focused VIPER