Where would you place him in relation to the tackles in the first and early second round? Would you take him before Chris Williams, Cherilus, etc.?
I would like to hear more opinions of CK and Boomer about our draft plans.
- Thread starter Fullerboy
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Where would you place him in relation to the tackles in the first and early second round? Would you take him before Chris Williams, Cherilus, etc.?
I don't expect him to last that long either CK, but I love his tenacity and ability to pull and pancake defenders. I do think he could play LT, although its obviously a projection for the most part.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
I would take Otah, Long and Williams above him for sure, as for Clady...I'm still up in the air on that one. I have a tape of Albert I've been meaning to get back to.
fishypete
FinHeaven Elite
CK...Whats your thoughts on Nicks at 57. Please don't go into the troubles he recently had...if you read them...it's really nothing...but do you see him being able to play guard...he has the size and strength that Parcells likes in linemen...he could drop to 57.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
I'm sorry but I can't just disregard the troubles. I'm not even talking about the getting arrested for disobeying police officers thing. Even before that scouts have questioned his work ethic, his attitude, his maturity level. He was not allowed to work out at the Nebraska pro day. When his own coaches and administration feel so strongly about him that they won't allow him to use their facilities in preparation for the draft, what does that tell you about the kid?
fishypete
FinHeaven Elite
Two current Nebraska football players and two former players with NFL Draft hopes got in trouble when police busted a party they were at Saturday night. Police say they ticketed Maurice Purify, 22, Carl Nicks, 22, Ben Martin, 19, and Mike V. Smith, 19, after they were called to 3124 Mickaela Lane in northwest Lincoln just before midnight Sunday about a loud party. Officer Katie Flood said police arrived to find the music could be heard from the sidewalk and more than 75 people inside. Empty beer cans littered the home. Flood said police cited 10 partygoers who remained after officers told everyone to leave, including the four. Smith was accused of maintaining a disorderly house, and Purify and Martin of being inmates of a disorderly house. Police arrested Nicks on suspicion of being an inmate of a disorderly house and failure to disperse after he wouldn’t leave. He since has been released. Martin, a graduate of Lincoln Southwest, is a sophomore defensive lineman who played in six games and had three tackles last season. Smith, a sophomore from Las Vegas, backed up Nicks at left tackle last year, and is a candidate to start this season. Husker coach Bo Pelini said he was aware of the situation and it will be dealt with internally. - Lincoln Journal Star
Nicks was barred from his own Pro Day by new head coach Bo Pelini after being arrested at a house party in Lincoln. Nicks, arrested for being an inmate of a disorderly house and failure to disperse, had previously drawn concerns from NFL teams for character issues. Nicks, 6-5, 341 pounds, remains one of the more intriguing prospects at tackle despite only starting one season for Nebraska after transferring from Hartnell Junior College.
I guess the new headcoach must be a Quaker...How do you let one player go to the pro-day....and not the other?
Lets try to remember...he's a 22 year old Football player...and not a person who committed Murder...or a rapist. Didn't Roth have the same issues...yet he had a pro-day.
After all that....can he play guard...and do you see him at 57?
That's a good sign. I looked back at the OL (T,G,C) drafted in the 1st round over the last 10 years and the average is 4.2 OL taken per year (insert joke about the .2 here). The most OL drafted during that time period was 6 in '99. The highest total in the last 20 years was 8 in '96. While this is an excellent OL draft most mocks predict that no more than 6 will be taken in the 1st. The top 6 seem to be Long, Otah, Clady, Williams, Albert and Cherilous. Leaving Baker, Collins, Cousins and Nicks as the next group. I would be thrilled if any of the top 6 slipped to us and fine as long as we got at least one of the next group (as a worst case scenario).
fishypete
FinHeaven Elite
Here's the New Jersey connection;
"Nicks said he appreciated former NU coach Bill Callahan having the faith to move him to left tackle, where he was big enough to block for running plays and athletic enough to pass protect from the quarterback's blind side.
Mackler said that combination was hard to hide when Nicks reported to the Parisi Speed School in Fairlawn, N.J. Nicks spent nearly three weeks there immediately after the regular season and reports back Jan. 2.
"They've worked with 120 of my guys who have been drafted, and they've never seen a guy like that," said Mackler, who already represents former Huskers Fabian Washington and Demorrio Williams along with Moore. "What they like about him is to find a guy who's 6-6, 350 pounds with no body fat, who runs around and is athletic like a linebacker.
"He's a freak, to be candid with you. Guys that big don't move like that."
Mackler said the only thing Nicks lacks is experience at his position. He compares him to Tony Ugoh, the former Arkansas offensive tackle who quietly climbed draft boards last winter to be a second-round pick by Indianapolis."
http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=3918&u_sid=10218689
"Nicks said he appreciated former NU coach Bill Callahan having the faith to move him to left tackle, where he was big enough to block for running plays and athletic enough to pass protect from the quarterback's blind side.
Mackler said that combination was hard to hide when Nicks reported to the Parisi Speed School in Fairlawn, N.J. Nicks spent nearly three weeks there immediately after the regular season and reports back Jan. 2.
"They've worked with 120 of my guys who have been drafted, and they've never seen a guy like that," said Mackler, who already represents former Huskers Fabian Washington and Demorrio Williams along with Moore. "What they like about him is to find a guy who's 6-6, 350 pounds with no body fat, who runs around and is athletic like a linebacker.
"He's a freak, to be candid with you. Guys that big don't move like that."
Mackler said the only thing Nicks lacks is experience at his position. He compares him to Tony Ugoh, the former Arkansas offensive tackle who quietly climbed draft boards last winter to be a second-round pick by Indianapolis."
http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=3918&u_sid=10218689
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Two current Nebraska football players and two former players with NFL Draft hopes got in trouble when police busted a party they were at Saturday night. Police say they ticketed Maurice Purify, 22, Carl Nicks, 22, Ben Martin, 19, and Mike V. Smith, 19, after they were called to 3124 Mickaela Lane in northwest Lincoln just before midnight Sunday about a loud party. Officer Katie Flood said police arrived to find the music could be heard from the sidewalk and more than 75 people inside. Empty beer cans littered the home. Flood said police cited 10 partygoers who remained after officers told everyone to leave, including the four. Smith was accused of maintaining a disorderly house, and Purify and Martin of being inmates of a disorderly house. Police arrested Nicks on suspicion of being an inmate of a disorderly house and failure to disperse after he wouldn’t leave. He since has been released. Martin, a graduate of Lincoln Southwest, is a sophomore defensive lineman who played in six games and had three tackles last season. Smith, a sophomore from Las Vegas, backed up Nicks at left tackle last year, and is a candidate to start this season. Husker coach Bo Pelini said he was aware of the situation and it will be dealt with internally. - Lincoln Journal Star
Nicks was barred from his own Pro Day by new head coach Bo Pelini after being arrested at a house party in Lincoln. Nicks, arrested for being an inmate of a disorderly house and failure to disperse, had previously drawn concerns from NFL teams for character issues. Nicks, 6-5, 341 pounds, remains one of the more intriguing prospects at tackle despite only starting one season for Nebraska after transferring from Hartnell Junior College.
I guess the new headcoach must be a Quaker...How do you let one player go to the pro-day....and not the other?
Lets try to remember...he's a 22 year old Football player...and not a person who committed Murder...or a rapist. Didn't Roth have the same issues...yet he had a pro-day.
After all that....can he play guard...and do you see him at 57?
I don't think Bo Pellini would have banned Nicks from the Pro Day if that arrest was the ONLY incident in his past, and I think past history is exactly why one player was not allowed at the Pro Day and the other player was.
Also, Matt Roth got into trouble for getting into bar fights with bouncers. I mean, do you consider that the same as failure to obey an officer of the law? I don't. Just like I don't consider stealing to be the same as speeding.
I don't see Nicks playing at Guard, I see him at Left or Right Tackle. He's too good a talent to play at Guard unless you've already got quality Tackles...and we don't.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
I see a big dropoff to a guy like Oniel Cousins...Sam Baker and Anthony Collins, I'm so-so on. Truth be told it's too bad but I don't think we have a chance to get hold of any of the five guys I really like and I feel like there's a big dropoff from those five. It's tempting to trade up but I know they've got to play the numbers game right now and get as many quality guys on the team as possible.
I still think theres the potential for packaging JT or a pick we get for JT and and either 57 or 64 for a pick that puts us in play for one of those guys in the first round, while still getting the impact defender #1 overall.
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The Tackles in this draft are good, but they're not fungible/interchangable, each has a rather distinct set of strengths and weaknesses. The OT position is one of the most difficult, most complex, and most thinking-intensive positions in football, it really is.
The vast majority of LT's are asked to dominate the very best pass rushers in the NFL. One mistake, mental lapse, poor technique, or athletic shortcomming can result in a devestating play like a hurry, sack, tipped pass, fumble, or injury to your QB. Even the fear of a backside hit makes many QB's--including Brady--underperform because they've got fear of that hit in the back of their minds and their vision is constantly distracted as they try to watch the rush out of the corner of their eyes; when they should be watching the receivers and coverages and trusting their linemen and "feel" of the pass rush. For these reasons, LT's are extremely well paid, never appear in FA, and are tremendously scouted.
But, the reality is that the NFL scouts have really nailed the scouting of T's and especially the LT's. It is now one of the lowest bust-potential positions in football, which is quite impressive. Sure, ultimately you can't get inside a person's head and never know what's really going on with a prospect or how he will handle the new lifestyle, etc. But there are less Robert Gallery's than there are Ryan Leaf's, Yatil Green's, Aundray Bruce's, etc.
Not everyone agrees, but here's my assessment of the potential LT's:
Clady: Best pass pro and classing LT, this kid has growth potential and already possesses the fluidity, skills and ability to be a force guarding his QB's blind side. If Cam were still coach he'd be my 1st choice LT because he's a wall in the passing game. His run blocking isn't special though. He doesn't have truly elite power to repeatedly blow away his man, but he has enough skill to do a decent job.
Williams: This kid has the dreaded "P" disease .... Potential. He has the athletic skill to potentially be the best in the class, but he's very raw. He would absolutely work for a team like the Dolphins where we have 2-3 years to let him develop into a monster. He can be a great pass blocker and great run blocker, Bingo! ... except that he's not. Life with him at LT would be like taking a shower while someone keeps flushing the toilet, annoyingly and painfully the water runs hot-cold-hot-cold-hot. We'd eat up the clock and move the chains then he'd miss a block and we'd have 3rd and long and not convert. Our QB would have all kinds of time one play, then get hit by a bus as Williams misses a block. In time he'd be exceptional, but for a year or two he'd be murder on us as he kinda learns the ropes.
Otah: I like this guy a lot, but he's still rough around the edges too. IMHO, he doesn't have as much pass pro potential as Williams, but he's got pro-bowl potential as both a pass pro and run blocker. But at the moment, he's just not the finished article and he's going to take his lumps as a rookie. Again, good fit for the Dolphins really.
Unfortunately, Clady isn't the run blocker we need under Parcells, so scratch him. Williams and Otah will both be taken in the 1st round in the 7-21 spots I think, where we're highly unlikely to be drafting.
Long: While everybody and their brother is willing to let Williams and Otah develop, nobody seems to be OK with letting Jake Long refine his pass pro techniques. I think he's the obvious Parcells pick and is going to be a great player, perennial pro-bowler, potential all-pro for many years. This bit about him not being able to handle speed rushers is far overblown IMHO. The kid from Purdue beat Joe Thomas but Thomas did just fine in the NFL, and that year Long was better against the same competition in Long's first season as a LT. Now Long has even more experience, and pitched a shutout except for 1 play against one of this year's most feared pass rushers, Vernon Gholston. AND, Long has nice long arms that will really help him compensate for his lateral quickness. Long will be a good LT in pass pro, people are just being nitpicky, this kid is the real deal. Run blocking, well I've heard differing opinions so I'll preface mine by saying IMHO Jake Long is by far the most dominant run blocker at any position in this draft and will be one of the top 2-3 run blockers at LT in the NFL for years to come. He is not only worthy of the #1 overall pick, he's the best LT for a Parcells system that has come along in a long long time (pun intended).
As for the 2nd rounders, let's not kid ourselves, there's a huge drop off.
Albert: I'm a UVa fan and have watched Albert with eager eyes since he enrolled. He was billed as the best OL guy of his class by at least 1 service. He came in to replace Ferguson, the starting LT of the Jets. Well, Ferguson stayed around longer than anticipated, and the Cavaliers were fortunate enough to also recruit Eugene Monroe, also one of the top 5 OL prospects of his year. When the dust settled, Albert--who came late to the position--played LG but he could have easily been a LT. Those of us--and I'm one of the first on any of these boards that I saw say it--that believe he can play LT in the pros recognize that he's going to have a steep learning curve and is best starting out as a G. He's well taught, but relatively inexperienced, and the jump to the NFL is a big one. Shifting to LT in and of itself will require time, so I wouldn't do both to him at the same time.
Baker: I'm actually higher on him than most people are. I think he can play LT and it's his best position and he is going to surprise a lot of people. His measurables are mediocre and he's overshadowed by the sheer quantity of talent at this position this draft, but he is a real player and he'll be a satisfactory LT in the NFL. The real reason he's slipping to a 2nd rounder is because of his injuries, not his lack of power, lack of speed, or any of these other things being posted. This kid can play ... but he's not a power player type that Parcells requires, so it's not going to be with the Dolphins unless we bite the bullet and have no other LT candidates to choose in round 2 (and we pass on Jake Long in round 1).
Nicks: I have a lot of doubts about him, one of them is his ability to play LT.
Everyone else: Nope, they can't play LT at an acceptable level in the NFL. Round 1 is absolutely loaded with LT's, but after that, you've got long odds to find one.
This draft is strong at Tackle, it's got a lot of exceptional LT prospects at the top, many solid RT prospects (Cherilius), and a good amount (McGlynn, Benedict) of tackles that I think will make good guards in this league.
But the LT debate is kinda silly IMHO. Unless we can trade out of the top pick, and/or trade up into the 1st round, we're not going to get any of those LT prospects except Long (#1) or hope that Baker is there in the 2nd round. Otherwise, we're looking at Carey playing LT again ... and I for one was surprised that he did an OK job, not great, but better than I expected. Still, I'd like Jake Long, who would be a massive improvement in both the pass and run game.
The vast majority of LT's are asked to dominate the very best pass rushers in the NFL. One mistake, mental lapse, poor technique, or athletic shortcomming can result in a devestating play like a hurry, sack, tipped pass, fumble, or injury to your QB. Even the fear of a backside hit makes many QB's--including Brady--underperform because they've got fear of that hit in the back of their minds and their vision is constantly distracted as they try to watch the rush out of the corner of their eyes; when they should be watching the receivers and coverages and trusting their linemen and "feel" of the pass rush. For these reasons, LT's are extremely well paid, never appear in FA, and are tremendously scouted.
But, the reality is that the NFL scouts have really nailed the scouting of T's and especially the LT's. It is now one of the lowest bust-potential positions in football, which is quite impressive. Sure, ultimately you can't get inside a person's head and never know what's really going on with a prospect or how he will handle the new lifestyle, etc. But there are less Robert Gallery's than there are Ryan Leaf's, Yatil Green's, Aundray Bruce's, etc.
Not everyone agrees, but here's my assessment of the potential LT's:
Clady: Best pass pro and classing LT, this kid has growth potential and already possesses the fluidity, skills and ability to be a force guarding his QB's blind side. If Cam were still coach he'd be my 1st choice LT because he's a wall in the passing game. His run blocking isn't special though. He doesn't have truly elite power to repeatedly blow away his man, but he has enough skill to do a decent job.
Williams: This kid has the dreaded "P" disease .... Potential. He has the athletic skill to potentially be the best in the class, but he's very raw. He would absolutely work for a team like the Dolphins where we have 2-3 years to let him develop into a monster. He can be a great pass blocker and great run blocker, Bingo! ... except that he's not. Life with him at LT would be like taking a shower while someone keeps flushing the toilet, annoyingly and painfully the water runs hot-cold-hot-cold-hot. We'd eat up the clock and move the chains then he'd miss a block and we'd have 3rd and long and not convert. Our QB would have all kinds of time one play, then get hit by a bus as Williams misses a block. In time he'd be exceptional, but for a year or two he'd be murder on us as he kinda learns the ropes.
Otah: I like this guy a lot, but he's still rough around the edges too. IMHO, he doesn't have as much pass pro potential as Williams, but he's got pro-bowl potential as both a pass pro and run blocker. But at the moment, he's just not the finished article and he's going to take his lumps as a rookie. Again, good fit for the Dolphins really.
Unfortunately, Clady isn't the run blocker we need under Parcells, so scratch him. Williams and Otah will both be taken in the 1st round in the 7-21 spots I think, where we're highly unlikely to be drafting.
Long: While everybody and their brother is willing to let Williams and Otah develop, nobody seems to be OK with letting Jake Long refine his pass pro techniques. I think he's the obvious Parcells pick and is going to be a great player, perennial pro-bowler, potential all-pro for many years. This bit about him not being able to handle speed rushers is far overblown IMHO. The kid from Purdue beat Joe Thomas but Thomas did just fine in the NFL, and that year Long was better against the same competition in Long's first season as a LT. Now Long has even more experience, and pitched a shutout except for 1 play against one of this year's most feared pass rushers, Vernon Gholston. AND, Long has nice long arms that will really help him compensate for his lateral quickness. Long will be a good LT in pass pro, people are just being nitpicky, this kid is the real deal. Run blocking, well I've heard differing opinions so I'll preface mine by saying IMHO Jake Long is by far the most dominant run blocker at any position in this draft and will be one of the top 2-3 run blockers at LT in the NFL for years to come. He is not only worthy of the #1 overall pick, he's the best LT for a Parcells system that has come along in a long long time (pun intended).
As for the 2nd rounders, let's not kid ourselves, there's a huge drop off.
Albert: I'm a UVa fan and have watched Albert with eager eyes since he enrolled. He was billed as the best OL guy of his class by at least 1 service. He came in to replace Ferguson, the starting LT of the Jets. Well, Ferguson stayed around longer than anticipated, and the Cavaliers were fortunate enough to also recruit Eugene Monroe, also one of the top 5 OL prospects of his year. When the dust settled, Albert--who came late to the position--played LG but he could have easily been a LT. Those of us--and I'm one of the first on any of these boards that I saw say it--that believe he can play LT in the pros recognize that he's going to have a steep learning curve and is best starting out as a G. He's well taught, but relatively inexperienced, and the jump to the NFL is a big one. Shifting to LT in and of itself will require time, so I wouldn't do both to him at the same time.
Baker: I'm actually higher on him than most people are. I think he can play LT and it's his best position and he is going to surprise a lot of people. His measurables are mediocre and he's overshadowed by the sheer quantity of talent at this position this draft, but he is a real player and he'll be a satisfactory LT in the NFL. The real reason he's slipping to a 2nd rounder is because of his injuries, not his lack of power, lack of speed, or any of these other things being posted. This kid can play ... but he's not a power player type that Parcells requires, so it's not going to be with the Dolphins unless we bite the bullet and have no other LT candidates to choose in round 2 (and we pass on Jake Long in round 1).
Nicks: I have a lot of doubts about him, one of them is his ability to play LT.
Everyone else: Nope, they can't play LT at an acceptable level in the NFL. Round 1 is absolutely loaded with LT's, but after that, you've got long odds to find one.
This draft is strong at Tackle, it's got a lot of exceptional LT prospects at the top, many solid RT prospects (Cherilius), and a good amount (McGlynn, Benedict) of tackles that I think will make good guards in this league.
But the LT debate is kinda silly IMHO. Unless we can trade out of the top pick, and/or trade up into the 1st round, we're not going to get any of those LT prospects except Long (#1) or hope that Baker is there in the 2nd round. Otherwise, we're looking at Carey playing LT again ... and I for one was surprised that he did an OK job, not great, but better than I expected. Still, I'd like Jake Long, who would be a massive improvement in both the pass and run game.
Ludacris
FinHeaven VIP
Can't argue with you there. I have seen Long, Albert, Cherlius, Baker and Nicks play and I agree with your assessments on each of them. So i'll assume you are right with the others. Nice post.
great post digital. Add a guy like Orniel Cousins to OTs that will be decent guards.
There are some other really good interior line prospects in the draft as well (namely Chilo Rachel)
There are some other really good interior line prospects in the draft as well (namely Chilo Rachel)