I'm rooting for Rosen to start but.... | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

I'm rooting for Rosen to start but....

Sirspud

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....can I just say that I do have reservations about his first start for us being against the Cowboys, who from what I've seen over the last two years have one of the toughest defenses in this league, along with a surprisingly productive offense based on a playmaking ability from Dak that really wasn't present in his first few years, when he was more a steady game manager that rarely made mistakes or big throws. I get the same feeling from the thought of Rosen starting that game as I did from Matt Moore starting against Baltimore a few years ago. The starting QB wasn't getting it done and never deserved the starting job in the first place, but it was setting the other QB up for failure by having him start in terrible circumstances. In Matt's case, we've been manhandled by Baltimore, absolutely filleted and dissected, in almost every recent outing except for a laughable suckfest between Tannehill and Matt Schaub. Moore predictably sucked and we were doomed for Cutler starting.

I've been excited to see Fitz benched the last two weeks, as it was overdue both times, yet my excitement dimmed pretty quickly when I realized the defensive line was just having a track meet to the quarterback every play on obvious passing situations. Rosen deserves a chance to play, but man does it suck to be the guy in there, having to pass the ball once the defense has already gotten into the head of the lineman. Fitz has had a mixed bag in the pocket for sure, but quarters 3/4 behind this line have turned into a free for all for the defense. And perhaps the defense would have been in less of a groove had Fitz not dug us a whole with some bad picks and easily batted passes by lineman in his throwing lane.

I never agreed with the sentiment that you start Rosen after the bye. Given the direction of this team with its obvious rebuilding, it made no sense to start a 36 year old QB unless Rosen showed he wasn't ready to play. In preseason, Rosen showed he was ready to play. He showed he could move the offense. He showed he could elude pass rush (a trait which was disappeared in his garbage time appearences). He showed he could place the ball and make big plays with good downfield vision. What's worse is that most of us here knew the Flores wasn't going to give him a fair shot based on his comments after preseason game 1, where he crticized Rosen for things that a veteran Fitzpatrick has done his entire career. Flores showed in that moment that he had preconceived visions of the two QB's and was going to look for whatever evidence there was to support that narrative. Fitzpatrick, for his part, was terrible in week three, when the announcers basically knew that Fitzpatrick was being given the starting job but were openly questioning it after Fitzpatrick supplied garbage an entire half.

The bottom line is that I think we're in a real pickle right now. Flores made a "safe" pick at QB and that backfired spectacularly. As much as you want to set the stage for a young QB to have success, the only stage that has been set is an absolute travesty. Instead of the stage being set, Rosen is instead placed in the same situation he was in Arizona, where he is inserted into a lineup that has been unspeakably bad (AZ fired their OC not long into last season). For fear of putting a young QB in at the wrong time, we've created a situation where the right time might not exist anymore. The right time was to let Josh build off solid play in the preseason, where the o-line play sucked pretty bad but we did a good job as a whole, but that time has passed and we can't go back. It just seems entire futile and senseless to waste any more time with Fitzpatrick starting and delay the only thing that makes sense, even if its a hard landing spot.

At the same time, what are we protecting him for? You don't want to ruin Rosen, but isn't it more laughable to protect a guy when every game you fail to start him gives him one less chance to prove his worth and develop himself? There's only 14 left (assuming health, lol) before we can potentially draft a QB highly and we need to know what we have.

I won't feel good about this week's QB decision no matter what it is. Fitzpatrick is wasted time and ineffective to boot, but Rosen is going to have an impossible task. We'll see.
 
So the difference between being a 27 or 25 game starter will make or break Rosen?

Ouch.
 
I am rooting for Rosen. Given the OL, he will need to throw the ball away and not take unnecessary sacks. We need to bring back the practice squad QB who played in pre-season. We need to keep Rosen healthy. Punting is okay when tanking.
 
No matter, Fitz will hang up his cleats and Rosen will be broken before the year is up.

This tank job is unforgivable.
 
Really you don’t want him to start because it’s against a tough defense on the road? Take the damn diaper off the kid and evaluate him against the best. I don’t care how bad the line is, lets see if he can rise above.
 
I've said it since the beginning, and I stand by my belief. My thoughts are that you play Fitzpatrick while the team is learning all these new systems, that way you avoid utterly destroying Rosen's confidence and repeating the fiasco he lived through in Arizona. Then, once the team stabilizes a bit starts playing instinctively rather than hesitantly, we'll put Rosen in. Ideally, that happens after game 4, when we have all week between week 4 and bye week 5, and a second full week between the bye week and our fifth game in week 6. That gives the offense time to get accustomed to the system, and Rosen will have two full weeks with the 1's to prepare, and THEN we can see what he can do, without shattering his confidence.
 
....can I just say that I do have reservations about his first start for us being against the Cowboys, who from what I've seen over the last two years have one of the toughest defenses in this league, along with a surprisingly productive offense based on a playmaking ability from Dak that really wasn't present in his first few years, when he was more a steady game manager that rarely made mistakes or big throws. I get the same feeling from the thought of Rosen starting that game as I did from Matt Moore starting against Baltimore a few years ago. The starting QB wasn't getting it done and never deserved the starting job in the first place, but it was setting the other QB up for failure by having him start in terrible circumstances. In Matt's case, we've been manhandled by Baltimore, absolutely filleted and dissected, in almost every recent outing except for a laughable suckfest between Tannehill and Matt Schaub. Moore predictably sucked and we were doomed for Cutler starting.

I've been excited to see Fitz benched the last two weeks, as it was overdue both times, yet my excitement dimmed pretty quickly when I realized the defensive line was just having a track meet to the quarterback every play on obvious passing situations. Rosen deserves a chance to play, but man does it suck to be the guy in there, having to pass the ball once the defense has already gotten into the head of the lineman. Fitz has had a mixed bag in the pocket for sure, but quarters 3/4 behind this line have turned into a free for all for the defense. And perhaps the defense would have been in less of a groove had Fitz not dug us a whole with some bad picks and easily batted passes by lineman in his throwing lane.

I never agreed with the sentiment that you start Rosen after the bye. Given the direction of this team with its obvious rebuilding, it made no sense to start a 36 year old QB unless Rosen showed he wasn't ready to play. In preseason, Rosen showed he was ready to play. He showed he could move the offense. He showed he could elude pass rush (a trait which was disappeared in his garbage time appearences). He showed he could place the ball and make big plays with good downfield vision. What's worse is that most of us here knew the Flores wasn't going to give him a fair shot based on his comments after preseason game 1, where he crticized Rosen for things that a veteran Fitzpatrick has done his entire career. Flores showed in that moment that he had preconceived visions of the two QB's and was going to look for whatever evidence there was to support that narrative. Fitzpatrick, for his part, was terrible in week three, when the announcers basically knew that Fitzpatrick was being given the starting job but were openly questioning it after Fitzpatrick supplied garbage an entire half.

The bottom line is that I think we're in a real pickle right now. Flores made a "safe" pick at QB and that backfired spectacularly. As much as you want to set the stage for a young QB to have success, the only stage that has been set is an absolute travesty. Instead of the stage being set, Rosen is instead placed in the same situation he was in Arizona, where he is inserted into a lineup that has been unspeakably bad (AZ fired their OC not long into last season). For fear of putting a young QB in at the wrong time, we've created a situation where the right time might not exist anymore. The right time was to let Josh build off solid play in the preseason, where the o-line play sucked pretty bad but we did a good job as a whole, but that time has passed and we can't go back. It just seems entire futile and senseless to waste any more time with Fitzpatrick starting and delay the only thing that makes sense, even if its a hard landing spot.

At the same time, what are we protecting him for? You don't want to ruin Rosen, but isn't it more laughable to protect a guy when every game you fail to start him gives him one less chance to prove his worth and develop himself? There's only 14 left (assuming health, lol) before we can potentially draft a QB highly and we need to know what we have.

I won't feel good about this week's QB decision no matter what it is. Fitzpatrick is wasted time and ineffective to boot, but Rosen is going to have an impossible task. We'll see.

Huh??? Don’t think so dude. We’re two games in and this will not be a reflection on Flores at all. The team is not break or make with Rosen after just two games.
 
So the difference between being a 27 or 25 game starter will make or break Rosen?

Ouch.

Nope, which is why I didn't say that. But being that we are almost guaranteed to have a top 5 pick, putting us in position for highly rated QB prospects, you certainly want the most information possible on the young QB you already have.
 
There have been far worse situations. Even David Carr squeaked out a win against the in state cowboys with an expansion team that would get him sacked 76 times that year. Free Rosen! You either have it or you don’t.
 
I've said it since the beginning, and I stand by my belief. My thoughts are that you play Fitzpatrick while the team is learning all these new systems, that way you avoid utterly destroying Rosen's confidence and repeating the fiasco he lived through in Arizona. Then, once the team stabilizes a bit starts playing instinctively rather than hesitantly, we'll put Rosen in. Ideally, that happens after game 4, when we have all week between week 4 and bye week 5, and a second full week between the bye week and our fifth game in week 6. That gives the offense time to get accustomed to the system, and Rosen will have two full weeks with the 1's to prepare, and THEN we can see what he can do, without shattering his confidence.

Teams don't just magically stabilize themselves if they have glaring weaknesses on the roster. In fact, you're just putting a lot of film out there on all the things you do terribly for other teams to exploit repeatedly. I've seen nothing in Fitz's play over his career to suggest that he'll be able to stabilize anything as he is a turnover machine and bad decision maker when things go bad and that's played out his entire career. Things aren't magically gonna not go bad with the lack of line talent or consistent playmakers on offense.

This talk of "stabilizing" is also stupid, being that the only time the offense resembled the way its played under Fitz in the regular season was with Fitz there in preseason. It looked good with Rosen starting. It looked good with Rudock starting. The only guy who threw ducks for an entire half was Fitzpatrick. You're making as assumption just as bad as the one that Flores did, which is that Fitz would come in and play better just because of Fitz being a veteran. In fact, Fitz has been so terrible that now the offense needs stabilizing partially because of his ineptitude.
 
There have been far worse situations. Even David Carr squeaked out a win against the in state cowboys with an expansion team that would get him sacked 76 times that year. Free Rosen! You either have it or you don’t.

Look, that Cowboys team of that era was a complete train wreck.
 
I've said it since the beginning, and I stand by my belief. My thoughts are that you play Fitzpatrick while the team is learning all these new systems, that way you avoid utterly destroying Rosen's confidence and repeating the fiasco he lived through in Arizona. Then, once the team stabilizes a bit starts playing instinctively rather than hesitantly, we'll put Rosen in. Ideally, that happens after game 4, when we have all week between week 4 and bye week 5, and a second full week between the bye week and our fifth game in week 6. That gives the offense time to get accustomed to the system, and Rosen will have two full weeks with the 1's to prepare, and THEN we can see what he can do, without shattering his confidence.
The big issue is that what if the cowboys go uo 21-0 or some score along those lines? The defense may be improving, but if fitz is still unable to produce anything resembling an offense do you keep him in? There comes that point as a coach where you must thrust him in there because fitz will have forced your hand. Buffalo had that happen with Allen. It's one thing if we are scoring but not playing well, but we aren't even moving the ball. I agree with your thoughts, but fitz may push the change with his play right now
 
the day Rosen starts and sucks, like he will............Grier is gone............and that could just finally be................the end of the curse!!!!!!!! Will it be fans ....will it be??
 
Look, that Cowboys team of that era was a complete train wreck.

I mean it depends on where you’re coming from. If you’re saying the cowboys defense is so good it could traumatize Rosen, I don’t see it. They’re very average. Giving up 38 points to the redskins and Giants isn’t exactly a feat. If you’re talking wins losses, the cowboys will kick our arses, as will most teams. It’s gonna be rough either way for whoever plays quarterback. Might as well watch the rookie fling it imo.
 
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