I'm still a joey harrington supporter

[icephinfan]

I questioned your post bc you referred to him as a leader "on the field" which indicates it has already been established. However, there is nothing in his career that suggests he is a leader. The present (2006) is he led Miami to a 1-3 record against the softest part of our schedule. The best indicator of the future is someone's behavior now and in the past unless something drastic occurs. What drastic thing that has happened this year indicates that Culpepper will become a leader in 2007? Other than wishful thinking...

Only time will tell.:D

 

[rafael]

Well, have you seen Kitna's post snap reads in Detroit this year? Hard to make a proper read when your flat on your back before the recievers have run their routes, I just think this put it into Harrington that he has to rely on his pre-snap in order to get the ball off before getting sacked. And let's face it Miami's line has been a bit better but is still so sporadic that it would limit confidence in the time given to change up your read post snap. I think if he can get over the whole confidence issue with an O-Line that consistently gives him time that he would be less robotic and gain more poise in the pocket.

But the same has to apply to Culpepper, everyone criticized him for being to dumb to make reads etc.., early on in the year but as the season has progressed it becomes more and more obvious that the line just doesn't provide enough time to make reads downfield. I think Harrington was trying but when he did, either recievers weren't getting open or the Line was breaking down much the same as we saw with Culpepper.

I still contend that our biggest problem is a lack of a playmaker reciever.

Then O-Line we need to beef up the left side.

Then we start evaluating QB's.

For the last 5 or more years we've been swapping QB's without ever upgrading the line or the recieving crew and all QB's have failed. Eventually you have to start fixing the other problems to give these Qb's a fighting chance.

The difference with JH is that he also did that in college. I know it was the Tedford system, but JH also lacked the instinct to improvise. That was what caused me to rate him as a 2nd or 3rd round pick coming out. He showed no ability to adjust when necessary. Unfortunately, he's showed the same limitation in Detroit and Miami. I see no reason to believe that he has or will develop this skill. If he doesn't then he can't be a starter who wins consistently in this league.

DC, on the other hand, did show the ability to improvise when the play broke down. He did this even during his 4 game stretch with us. I agree with you that our OL did not provide enough time. That is primarily why DC failed, but despite that you saw flashes of him improvising successfully.

JH never showed that. That is why I keep saying that those that think JH is doing better than DC did aren't looking at the right things.

 

[bluehaze]

The difference with JH is that he also did that in college. I know it was the Tedford system, but JH also lacked the instinct to improvise. That was what caused me to rate him as a 2nd or 3rd round pick coming out. He showed no ability to adjust when necessary. Unfortunately, he's showed the same limitation in Detroit and Miami. I see no reason to believe that he has or will develop this skill. If he doesn't then he can't be a starter who wins consistently in this league.

DC, on the other hand, did show the ability to improvise when the play broke down. He did this even during his 4 game stretch with us. I agree with you that our OL did not provide enough time. That is primarily why DC failed, but despite that you saw flashes of him improvising successfully.

JH never showed that. That is why I keep saying that those that think JH is doing better than DC did aren't looking at the right things.

Yes you are right it does seem as if Harrington panics in those situations and Culpepper just takes the sacks. I thought Harrington's panicking was more a rookie thing and it seemed like he was learning when he started taking the sacks in the second half of the Jags game but then the Buffalo game was just horrible he went back to panic mode so I have no idea anymore. I do see potential in him but if he can't learn from his mistakes and become more consistent I have to agree he will not succeed as a starter.

 

[VManis]

No, that was a different guy. I posted on the Dolphin Digest board before I found Finheaven.QUOTE]

That's probably were I rembember you from.

And I agree that people are never unanimous on any pick. It's just that there were more than a few questions about JH being worth that pick. But people seem to equate his high draft position with proof that he had superlative skills and that simply isn't true.

I couldn't agree more. I hate it when people use the "he was a first round pick so he has to be good" arguement. I was merely pointing out that coming out of college Joey had enough talent to make a lot of people think he was worthy of a first round pick. That skill set hasn't deminished in the past five years so with the right coaching and the right supporting staff there is still reason to believe he could live up to expectations. Let's just say he has potential. Contrast that with Fiedler who made the most of a more limited skill set and no matter how hard we squeezed the stone we weren't going to get anything more from him.

 

[darrensls1]

How is Culpepper a leader on the field? He hasn't led his team to a winning record in the past "6" years...

2001: 4-7 as a starter
2002: 6-10
2003: 7-7
2004: 8-8
2005: 2-5
2006: 1-3

You really think that leading your team to a 28-43 record (mostly playing in the worst division in football...NFC North) in the past 71 games, while having some pretty good talent on your team is the mark of a good leader?

I think your argument here is completly bogus. Culpepper in 2003 & 2004 was DEFINATELY a leader. A leader on offense that is. You can't blame Daunte for the mistakes the Vikings defense and special teams were making. They were certainly scoring enough points on offense. But when you have a cannon of an arm and Randy Moss catching deep passes you don't eat a lot of clock and give the other team a lot of chances on offense to answer.

This of course is where the inept defense comes into play. But put a leader like DC with a cannon of an arm and give him a good running game (to help chew up the clock) and a great defense (to actually stop the opposing teams from answering your scores) and you just might have something special.

 

[unifiedtheory]

:eek: Don't talk about the agenda!!! If they figure it out, where will we be then!?

:sidelol:

 

[Straztheman]

Im not gonna be on the bandwagon one week, off the next like some people. I still think Joey can be successful here.

flame away.

Then y do u have a draft Troy Smith sig?

 

[Slappy8800]

Then y do u have a draft Troy Smith sig?

i already explained this a few pages back

 

[AquaAssasin]

I think your argument here is completly bogus. Culpepper in 2003 & 2004 was DEFINATELY a leader. A leader on offense that is. You can't blame Daunte for the mistakes the Vikings defense and special teams were making. They were certainly scoring enough points on offense. But when you have a cannon of an arm and Randy Moss catching deep passes you don't eat a lot of clock and give the other team a lot of chances on offense to answer.

This of course is where the inept defense comes into play. But put a leader like DC with a cannon of an arm and give him a good running game (to help chew up the clock) and a great defense (to actually stop the opposing teams from answering your scores) and you just might have something special.

And thats the million dollar question will we ever get something like that?

Hmmm, inquiring minds want to know!:evil:

 

[Phanatical]

I'm just curious as to what makes you think that?? The guy has been in the league for 5 years now, he's Played Every year, and he's Never had a good season. A couple years ago I HATED AJ Feeley, but I could somewhat understand why people thought maybe Feeley could turn it around and play good/better because he hadn't ever really gotten a chance to prove himself before, but what in the world makes people think that Joey after FIVE YEARS of bad play is going to all of a sudden turn into a good QB? If it hasn't happened yet it just isn't going to happen folks. There's a better chance of Marcus Vick becoming a good starting QB than Harrington, and I don't think Vick will ever be a good QB in the NFL either.

• Change of teams
• Coaching
• Better supporting cast
• Overall improvement this year and from game to game (excluding the Jills game)

I don't know if he's the answer, but I can see why one could remain optimistic.