I'm still a joey harrington supporter

[bluehaze]

Joey 10x better...hahahahahahahaha the shame of it all is he SHOULD be but he is not... I had hope...more than a little, but CK was right, he is what he is

Depends on how you look at it man, surely we have a pretty good defense but what seperates our offense from Detroits offense? Did we look better or worse with Culpepper under center?

Granted the odds aren't in Harrington's favor at this point but clearly he has improved from his days in Detroit, and clearly we dont have an offense capable of showcasing any QB regardless of who they are. I suspect Peyton would laugh Chambers off the field if he was here.

Honestly we have been through 6 or more QB's with these same recievers and every Qb has been mediocre and we have laughed every Qb out of town but think about it how many noname/rookie Qb's are lighting it up with better recieving crews elsewhere? Quite a few.

Look at Huard with the Chiefs...

I really dont think we have a QB curse, I think we have a reciever curse that can be fixed, but bringing in new Qb's year after year won't fix it.

Regardless if we think the Qb we currently have is the next Marino or the next Lucas there comes a point where you have to stick with him and start changing up the other aspects of the offense in order to troubleshoot the problem.

 

[Slappy8800]

Grow up dude.

just ignore them. ive drowned them out.

 

[darrensls1]

just ignore them. ive drowned them out.

Sure you have :D

 

[cnc66]

Depends on how you look at it man, surely we have a pretty good defense but what seperates our offense from Detroits offense? Did we look better or worse with Culpepper under center?

Granted the odds aren't in Harrington's favor at this point but clearly he has improved from his days in Detroit, and clearly we dont have an offense capable of showcasing any QB regardless of who they are. I suspect Peyton would laugh Chambers off the field if he was here.



.

but he has time AND a reasonable running game...I just think we have seen him as good as he is going to get... now for sure, I'm no qb guru, but I don't see any epiphanies in Joey future... and make no mistake, I wanted him to shine and show everyone he COULD do it...even took on CK about it...stuck my fingers in my ears and went lalalalalalalala so I wouldn't have to hear it. I love everything I see about him...except his sunday play.

 

[darrensls1]

Depends on how you look at it man, surely we have a pretty good defense but what seperates our offense from Detroits offense? Did we look better or worse with Culpepper under center?

We looked about the same. But that's not the point. The point is Culpepper didn't have the repositioned O-line that Joey now has and Culpepper was playing through pain which affected his performance.

Granted the odds aren't in Harrington's favor at this point but clearly he has improved from his days in Detroit, and clearly we dont have an offense capable of showcasing any QB regardless of who they are. I suspect Peyton would laugh Chambers off the field if he was here.

I don't see the clear improvement. Regardless of the WR talent Harrington has always thrown too many INT and had deep ball accuracy issues. Since that hasn't improves this season I still don't see his improvement.

Honestly we have been through 6 or more QB's with these same recievers and every Qb has been mediocre and we have laughed every Qb out of town but think about it how many noname/rookie Qb's are lighting up with better recieving crews elsewhere? Far more than here.

Look at Huard with the Chiefs....

Huard is the only one we can look at. It's not like any of the other former Dolphin QB's are doing anything worth talking about. But your point is very valid that we need more talent at WR and TE. But we also need more talent at QB. Maybe it's Daunte and maybe it isn't. But it's definately not Joey.

I realy dont think we have a QB curse, I think we have a reciever curse that can be fixed, but bringing in new Qb's year after year won't fix it.

Regardless if we think the Qb we currently have is the next Marino or the next Lucas there comes a point where you have to stick with him and start changing up the other aspects of the offense in order to troubleshoot the problem.

I don't believe in curses. But I do believe that if you're going to stick with a guy through bad years then it should be a promising rookie from the draft. I don't see that sticking with Harrington will do anything but further hold back this team from playoff hopes.

 

[icephinfan]

I'm #1 on that list.

I don't mind Troy Smith, but just so Joey isn't the one to groom him.

 

[bluehaze]

but he has time AND a reasonable running game...I just think we have seen him as good as he is going to get... now for sure, I'm no qb guru, but I don't see any epiphanies in Joey future... and make no mistake, I wanted him to shine and show everyone he COULD do it...even took on CK about it...stuck my fingers in my ears and went lalalalalalalala so I wouldn't have to hear it. I love everything I see about him...except his sunday play.

Yea, I feel the same way, he was a big disappointment last Sunday for sure but all that aside, the point im trying to make is in order to properly troubleshoot a problem you first need to establish a constant.

Our constant over the years has been our recieveing crew and we have changed Qb's 5-6 or more times in order to fix that problem.

Now the logical next step would be to keep the QB the same and start changing recievers and see what result that produces.

That is my point, it is not that I am a staunch Harrington supporter, it is moreso that I think Harrington is capable of providing a constant at the Qb position while we take the next step in the evaluation process which would be changing up the recievers.

Looking at it logically Harrington has 62% Completion with Booker, 69% completion with Welker, 65% Completion with McMichael, and 39% Completion with Chambers.

Wouldn't it seem obvious at this point that Chambers stands out as the biggest problem overall? Chambers has a 20% drop in completion percentage from both Culpepper and Harrington's average. That is freakin huge!

I don't know if either Harrington or Culpepper are the answer but it seems certain to me as long as Chambers is catching balls from them we will never establish enough consistency from the Qb position to find that answer.

 

[darrensls1]

Our constant over the years has been our recieveing crew and we have changed Qb's 5-6 or more times in order to fix that problem.

Now the logical next step would be to keep the QB the same and start changing recievers and see what result that produces.

In all fairness we have not had any talent at the QB position with those guys either. The logical step is to start with a talented QB and build the offense around him.

That is my point, it is not that I am a staunch Harrington supporter, it is moreso that I think Harrington is capable of providing a constant at the Qb position while we take the next step in the evaluation process which would be changing up the recievers.

Harrington and constant should not be used in the same sentence unless it's in reference to INT. His inconsistant play has been his problem since coming into the NFL.

Looking at it logically Harrington has 62% Completion with Booker, 69% completion with Welker, 65% Completion with McMichael, and 39% Completion with Chambers.

The only problem I have with that is Harringtons YPA being so low. Chambers is usually the guy we throw the deep ball to and Joey is not an accurate deep ball passer.

Wouldn't it seem obvious at this point that Chambers stands out as the biggest problem overall? Chambers has a 20% drop in completion percentage from both Culpepper and Harrington's average. That is freakin huge!

Biggest problem overall? No way. A problem? Definately.

I don't know if either Harrington or Culpepper are the answer but it seems certain to me as long as Chambers is catching balls from them we will never establish enough consistency from the Qb position to find that answer.

If he continues to drop too many passes I guarentee the QB will throw less his way. Every QB picks a favorite go to guy. Marino (in the 90's) loved McDuffie and if Chambers keeps dropping passes then Booker will likely take the #1 spot.

 

[cnc66]

Yea, In feel the same way, he was a big disappointment last Sunday for sure but all that aside, the point im trying to make is in order to properly troubleshoot a problem you first need to establish a constant.

Our constant over the years has been our recieveing crew and we have changed Qb's 5-6 or more times in order to fix that problem.

Now the logical next step would be to keep the QB the same and start changing recievers and see what result that produces.

That is my point, it is not that I am a staunch Harrington supporter, it is moreso that I think Harrington is capable of providing a constant at the Qb position while we take the next step in the evaluation process which would be changing up the recievers.

Looking at it logically Harrington has 62% Completion with Booker, 69% completion with Welker, 65% Completion with McMichael, and 39% Completion with Chambers.

Wouldn't it seem obvious at this point that Chambers stands out as the biggest problem overall? Chambers has a 20% drop in completion percentage from both Culpepper and Harrington's average. That is freakin huge!

I don't know if either Harrington or Culpepper are the answer but it seems certain to me as long as Chambers is catching balls from them we will never establish enough consistency from the Qb position to find that answer.

I'm thinking Saban takes those into account in the film room, plus, he knows who blew what assignments. But really, my own eyes can see when he badly throws, and that is often. I keep hoping that the Joey who comes out and marches us down the field will find a home and stay, but...sigh, the but...the next game, for no apparent reason, he implodes. I was very disappointed at Joey last Sunday, I kept expecting to hear his hand or fingers were hurt... I swear, when the ball flopped out of his hand I knew we would cave in..they did the same thing when Daunte dropped it like that. Sometimes ya "just know" and I did and it sucked even more to be right. I will support any man who lines up on the field, but my big hopes for Joey have faded into unhappy reality.

 

[bluehaze]

Harrington and constant should not be used in the same sentence unless it's in reference to INT. His inconsistant play has been his problem since coming into the NFL.

Well look at it this way, if 75% of Harringtons interceptions were passes intended for Chambers that would leave Harrington with far less interceptions than TD's and all of a sudden he would become a consistent QB would he not? I do not feel like looking up the play by play right now but if someone else cares to I would be really curious to see how many of the Interceptions from both Harrington and Culpepper were intended for Chambers.

Off the top of my head I know of 1 INT intended for Welker and 1 intended for Mcmichael from Harrington and at least 1 intended for Chambers from Culpepper.

If noone else wants to do it I will do it later on or else tommorow.

 

[cnc66]

If he continues to drop too many passes I guarentee the QB will throw less his way. Every QB picks a favorite go to guy. Marino (in the 90's) loved McDuffie and if Chambers keeps dropping passes then Booker will likely take the #1 spot.

well said, I think it may have already begun. Chris has in no way helped prevent any interceptions and Joey is watching this stuff in slo mo afterwards knowing he could have been helped. Plus he disses Joey in pressers, I wouldn't throw it to him often either

 

[bluehaze]

I'm thinking Saban takes those into account in the film room, plus, he knows who blew what assignments. But really, my own eyes can see when he badly throws, and that is often. I keep hoping that the Joey who comes out and marches us down the field will find a home and stay, but...sigh, the but...the next game, for no apparent reason, he implodes. I was very disappointed at Joey last Sunday, I kept expecting to hear his hand or fingers were hurt... I swear, when the ball flopped out of his hand I knew we would cave in..they did the same thing when Daunte dropped it like that. Sometimes ya "just know" and I did and it sucked even more to be right. I will support any man who lines up on the field, but my big hopes for Joey have faded into unhappy reality.

Yea his accuracy does leave alot to be desired at times, he seems to predetermine where he's throwing the ball based on his knowledge of recievers routes as opposed to throwing where the reciever is actually at which hurts him. And I can't honestly say I haven't lost most of my faith in the kid after Sunday's loss. However I still feel unless we upgrade this recieving crew we will never find a consistent QB, I don't care if his name is Joey Harrington, Daunte Culpepper or Peyton Manning. The hardest part of being a fan is you can never honestly tell who was at fault on certain plays be it the recievers running the wrong routes, the Qb throwing errant passes or the Db's just making great plays for the ball.

You can get some idea, sometimes it's obvious but other times a reciever running a bad route can lead to a WTF kind of interception.

I guess we have to have faith in Saban to make the call in the end, he should know whos doing what and where the problems are. It's just that if we go into next season with these same recievers and these same problems regardless of who is at QB I will have lost alot of faith in Saban's ability to diagnose those problems.

I guess I am just frustrated of the same old same old year after year...It would be nice to see some solid solutions and progress next year.

 

[darrensls1]

Well look at it this way, if 75% of Harringtons interceptions were passes intended for Chambers that would leave Harrington with far less interceptions than TD's and all of a sudden he would become a consistent QB would he not?

I don't think it really matters what percentage where intended for Chambers. What would matter is what percentage where either wrestled away from chambers, tipped by chambers or went through his hands.

The ones that were intended for him but intercepted by a defender who was well covering him is all on Joey.

I do not feel like looking up the play by play right now but if someone else cares to I would be really curious to see how many of the Interceptions from both Harrington and Culpepper were intended for Chambers.

Off the top of my head I know of 1 INT intended for Welker and 1 intended for Mcmichael from Harrington and at least 1 intended for Chambers from Culpepper.

If noone else wants to do it I will do it later on or else tommorow.

I would be curious too. But while Chambers has had problems this year he is a former pro bowler. I think we would be better off keeping Chambers, Booker and then adding a premier WR as a #1. Then if CC continues to drop too many passes we bench/cut/trade him a little later down the line. But if he does not continue to play poorly (and Booker stays healthy) we have a nasty receiving crew.

 

[VManis]

That is all very facinating but it doesn't change three things.

1). Joey Harrington throws too many interceptions.

2). Joey Harrington has accuracy issues on passes over 10 yards (which doesn't help #1 any).

3). We could all grow old waiting for him to live up to his "potential".

Or maybe, just maybe, this is as good as Harrington gets. Which is consistently inconsistent thus averaging him out to being barely average.

1) I think I covered that when I said he had a confidence problem with his teammates. If and yes that is a big if, he can learn to trust the team as a whole to win rather then taking the risks he does then he could turn things around.

2) This is greatly over exagerated. Joey's long ball is not awful but we seldom get to see it.

3) True or we could grow old switching QBs every offseason in an endless hunt to find the next Marino. This team will be much better if during the offseason we concentrate on surrounding the QBs we have with talent rather then draft the current QB of the month.

 

[VManis]

I'm actually not sure if they were anonymous. It may have been Brandt or one of the other retired GMs (GB guy maybe?) that were their usual sources. I just don't remember the names. But your quotes did jog my memory about Buchsbaum. His rant that day was about how the Lions had reached for JH. That quote makes him sound higher on JH than he actually was. He tried to be political by saying that some had him rated above Carr but when he said it he definately made it sound like it was a minority opinion. He and most others had him as a late first rounder at best.

No everyone is going to agree with a draft pick but its fair to say that most people were expecting Joey to be a first round pick.

BTW - Are you the same rafael from the old Sun Sentinel board?