Ireland is TOAST if...

[phinfan40353]

Actually, that's probably NOT such a bad thing. A team can do a whole lot worse than having a knowledgeable football guy like Ireland working with a HC who's on the same page. If the GM has the confidence of the ownership, then that's probably a good thing, too, since it's unlikely that the owner will interfere with player personnel decisions. Nothing like an owner insisting on acquiring a player of dubious football skill but great publicity value. :crazy:

IMO, a HC having primary input into player personnel because the GM isn't a "football guy" is probably the least desirable way to build a team. Coaches tend to be short-sighted. They want player X because he fits their system regardless if he's suitable for anything else. They are excited at getting a new big play guy. They are focused on winning this year and not about two years down the line.

Good GMs take a longer term view of the team. They pay more attention to salary cap and contract issues. They look at drafting/signing not just starters but players who will be good depth or who are versatile enough to be useful in more than 1 coach's "system".

I agree that GMs tend to be longer tenured due to the nature of their job. But I do question whether or not they should be given more chances to fail simply because they have the "long term" card to play.

Take for example our unique situation. Ireland and Sparano came from the very same tree. And they were mentored on the job by their teacher. So, it's a given that Ireland is drafting players for the same system Sparano is coaching. Yet Sparano gets the axe. And Ireland gets to play with the owner to pick a new coach. Meanwhile, he also gets to ship a looming large failure to another team. Ireland got to wipe his slate clean.

Why? Wasn't the players Sparano lost with the same players Ireland helped or indeed acquired?

So, if Parcells is gone and Sparano is a failure, what is Ireland? Untouchable?

And now, he gets to play his mulligan with a completely different system? He couldn't draft players for the system he was taught, but he's suddenly better at drafting players for the West Coast Offense?

I'm not bashing Ireland specifically. But I am saying there seems to be a different set of rules in play for his tenure.

And yes I agree that a GM's entire body of work garners attention when judging his performance. But consecutive losing seasons implies the behind-the-scenes work is not working either. He has failed in my opinion. And shouldn't be rewarded.

 

[Killerphins]

I agree that GMs tend to be longer tenured due to the nature of their job. But I do question whether or not they should be given more chances to fail simply because they have the "long term" card to play.

Take for example our unique situation. Ireland and Sparano came from the very same tree. And they were mentored on the job by their teacher. So, it's a given that Ireland is drafting players for the same system Sparano is coaching. Yet Sparano gets the axe. And Ireland gets to play with the owner to pick a new coach. Meanwhile, he also gets to ship a looming large failure to another team. Ireland got to wipe his slate clean.

Why? Wasn't the players Sparano lost with the same players Ireland helped or indeed acquired?

So, if Parcells is gone and Sparano is a failure, what is Ireland? Untouchable?

And now, he gets to play his mulligan with a completely different system? He couldn't draft players for the system he was taught, but he's suddenly better at drafting players for the West Coast Offense?

I'm not bashing Ireland specifically. But I am saying there seems to be a different set of rules in play for his tenure.

And yes I agree that a GM's entire body of work garners attention when judging his performance. But consecutive losing seasons implies the behind-the-scenes work is not working either. He has failed in my opinion. And shouldn't be rewarded.

I think it was a no brainer that Ireland was retained because Ross was scared to death to be on his own.
Ireland was the only football guy left.
Ross didn't want to be left on an island.

 

[MiamiMuss]

If he drafts Weeden, Weeden doesn't play a single down, and the team still goes 8-8, 7-9, 6-10, Ireland will still be done. Weeden is what I call a "win-now" player. That is, you draft him to WIN NOW.

I have to say that i cant ever remember a rookie QB being taken with a"win now" tag apllied to him.Could Weeden do this?IDK

http://www.sports-central.org/sports/2012/02/01/the_best_rookie_quarterbacks_ever.php heres a good article.I would put Cam #1 and Big Ben #2 and none of these QB's were taken with a Win now approach.

 

[Finland]

I think it was a no brainer that Ireland was retained because Ross was scared to death to be on his own.
Ireland was the only football guy left.
Ross didn't want to be left on an island.

Could be true. I don't like Ross so far, but he has to be smart enough to see where he is at, because this type of stuff is just business.

 

[Irishfinfan1]

To be honest I would be a supporter of Ireland, I don't think he is a great GM but I think he is a good one. I would suggest that Sparano, Henning, the Oline coaches didn't get the best out of the players Ireland got for them so that and Parcells would be why I would give him a pass on those drafts. I think Philbin will get the best out of the players drafted.
On the criticism of him not getting playmakers if last year's draft was Ireland's first (and I can understand people would argue on this point) where he ultimately made the decision of who to draft he had quite a productive one. Pouncey is looking like a Pro Bowl center, Thomas looked good until his hammy gave out, Gates we don't know yet but he certainly has the speed we need, Clay could be a playmaking TE, even his 7th round pick Jimmy Wilson is looking like a good player. The big question is QB and I think Ireland is going to have to bite the bullet and hitch his wagon to a QB, I think he must draft one in the early rounds. The problem is we won't know for 2-3 years whether it was a successful or crappy pick but given the influence of Philbin and Sherman I think they will get the best out of whoever is drafted.

 

[Nawledge]

Ireland has dug his own grave...Miami doesn't have much blue-chip talent yet has little room left in the salary cap. As big of a tightwad Ireland is on one hand he overspends on below average players to leave Miami cash strapped. No room in salary cap to sign Cameron Wake who is getting robbed by his current contract. Four years on the job and the team is going through a complete rebuild...WTF?

IMO striking out on Flynn after Manning totally shunned Miami was the last straw with the fanbase. More than likely Miami will draft a QB not b/c the QB is of value but b/c Ireland has put Miami in such a bind at that position and Miami can't put butts in the seats with the roster they have now. Forced to sell the promise of a young QB being the future to save his job imo.

I don't remember us striking out on flynn, I do remember philbin not thinking he was better than matt moore therefore not worth the money flynn wanted.

I don't think were drafting tannehill. My honest opinion is we trade back to get more picks.

 

[Finfanforever]

If he drafts Weeden, Weeden doesn't play a single down, and the team still goes 8-8, 7-9, 6-10, Ireland will still be done. Weeden is what I call a "win-now" player. That is, you draft him to WIN NOW.

And who's to say he can't compete with Gerrard and Moore?????

 

[Finfanforever]

IMHO, Ireland is not going anywhere this year and not next. The theory that Miami needs to draft Tannehill or else is pushed forward by media members that no little to nothing about football. When so many actual football people look at Tannehill not being worth a top 10 pick, I do not think it would do or die for Ireland. The media will make it out to be, but it is not a reality.

You are not seeing the whole picture here. Say Ireland does what he usually does and passes on Tannehill...who is sitting there at #8 and passes on Weedon...or for that matter just does not address the QB position at all. Then lets say this team does what they did last year and goes 0-7...1-6 or something pathetic like that. The seats in the stadium are empty...the stadium becomes a ghost town...the heat gets turned on Ireland who "did the shopping for the groceries". Ross will have to react... you know he will at the end of the season.

However...Ireland drafts Tannehill or weedon and even if they sit (which they should)....Ireland survives because fans at least have hope and the offense will be labled as "rebuilding". That is the way I see it...he almost has to address the QB position with Tannehill or Weedon. Fact-no, theory-yes.

 

[Kinzua]

I don't remember us striking out on flynn, I do remember philbin not thinking he was better than matt moore therefore not worth the money flynn wanted.

Flynn is almost as overrated as Tannehill. He was a seventh round draft pick, which means that the pros had serious concerns about his talent level. Really, there aren't a lot of QBs with great measurables drafted that late, especially when they play for Div 1 schools rather than for the Ivies or Div III. With all of 2 NFL games on his resume, Flynn could be anything. How can any team really have a clue as to whether he's a stud or dud, especially when he played those 2 games with GB's super offense? Even Kevin Kolb looked good in his short stint in place of McNabb a few years ago in Philly. When he became the starter, he couldn't disguise his fundamental mediocrity ... as Arizona has discovered.

I don't think were drafting tannehill. My honest opinion is we trade back to get more picks.

Not drafting Tannehill would be a good thing. NOT wasting draft picks, especially first round draft picks, on Brady Quinn or Matt Leinart were actually high-lights of the Bills' draft under Russ Brandon and Dick Jauron. Sometimes, despite the doom and gloom, a few good things happen ...

Tannehill is being rocketed up the media "analysts" draft boards by sheer hype, much as Blaine Gabbert was last season. He's really NOT a first round talent because all the "love" for him stems from his measurables. When you look at his collegiate record, such as it is, you see a converted WR who only played 19 games (1 1/2 seasons) as a QB and who didn't play very well against top competition. His game play should be what raises red flags as a first round pick. The NFL isn't about how pretty a QB looks throwing the ball but how effective he is throwing the ball. Tannehill was ineffective against good teams and padded his stats against the scrubs on the schedule.

 

[Kinzua]

You are not seeing the whole picture here. Say Ireland does what he usually does and passes on Tannehill...who is sitting there at #8 and passes on Weedon...or for that matter just does not address the QB position at all. Then lets say this team does what they did last year and goes 0-7...1-6 or something pathetic like that. The seats in the stadium are empty...the stadium becomes a ghost town...the heat gets turned on Ireland who "did the shopping for the groceries". Ross will have to react... you know he will at the end of the season.

However...Ireland drafts Tannehill or weedon and even if they sit (which they should)....Ireland survives because fans at least have hope and the offense will be labled as "rebuilding". That is the way I see it...he almost has to address the QB position with Tannehill or Weedon. Fact-no, theory-yes.

Picking Tannehill at #8 means that the Fins forego drafting a potential rookie starter in the first round who could conceivably help the team improve its record in 2012 to reach for an over-hyped QB who is NOT NFL ready, and who could NOT be expected to come in for Moore if he got hurt with any realistic chance of success. In that case, then Tannehill is just another developmental QB who should be drafted after the first round, and maybe after the second.

As for Weeden, he's NOT the only developmental QB in the draft, and he might very well NOT be the best of the lot. That you think Tannehill is worth the #8 pick says that your QB evaluation skills consist of simply swallowing media hype without question.

I think Ireland should draft a developmental QB in this draft, but who he picks should be based on the Fins own evaluations not on media hype nor upon pleasing some vocal minority of fans.

I will also say this: if the Fins draft somebody other than Tannehill at #8 and he becomes a starter who helps the Fins get to 8-8 at least, most fans won't care that Ireland passed on Tannehill.

 

[rent this space]

Picking Tannehill at #8 means that the Fins forego drafting a potential rookie starter in the first round who could conceivably help the team improve its record in 2012 to reach for an over-hyped QB who is NOT NFL ready, and who could NOT be expected to come in for Moore if he got hurt with any realistic chance of success. In that case, then Tannehill is just another developmental QB who should be drafted after the first round, and maybe after the second.

As for Weeden, he's NOT the only developmental QB in the draft, and he might very well NOT be the best of the lot. That you think Tannehill is worth the #8 pick says that your QB evaluation skills consist of simply swallowing media hype without question.

I think Ireland should draft a developmental QB in this draft, but who he picks should be based on the Fins own evaluations not on media hype nor upon pleasing some vocal minority of fans.

I will also say this: if the Fins draft somebody other than Tannehill at #8 and he becomes a starter who helps the Fins get to 8-8 at least, most fans won't care that Ireland passed on Tannehill.

and if Tannehill ends up a franchise QB, no one will care in what round he was projected to be taken

 

[Finfanforever]

Picking Tannehill at #8 means that the Fins forego drafting a potential rookie starter in the first round who could conceivably help the team improve its record in 2012 to reach for an over-hyped QB who is NOT NFL ready, and who could NOT be expected to come in for Moore if he got hurt with any realistic chance of success. In that case, then Tannehill is just another developmental QB who should be drafted after the first round, and maybe after the second.

As for Weeden, he's NOT the only developmental QB in the draft, and he might very well NOT be the best of the lot. That you think Tannehill is worth the #8 pick says that your QB evaluation skills consist of simply swallowing media hype without question.

I think Ireland should draft a developmental QB in this draft, but who he picks should be based on the Fins own evaluations not on media hype nor upon pleasing some vocal minority of fans.

I will also say this: if the Fins draft somebody other than Tannehill at #8 and he becomes a starter who helps the Fins get to 8-8 at least, most fans won't care that Ireland passed on Tannehill.

You are assuming that Tannehill or Weedon is not the best of what is left...I seriously doubt that ALL the so-called experts could be that off. Truth is, most think Weedon would be a sure top 10 pick if he were younger. If Miami passes on Tannehill it will be because like Flynn...they just don't see him as a fit. Like Flynn, no NFL team knows Tannehill like Miami...so if they pass...I fully expect them to make a play for Weedon. As long as Philbin and Sherman are players in the QB pick...we might be ok...but I am not nor have I ever been convinced that Ireland knows QB's. One think is for sure....we cannot be an elite organization until we get a good play-maker at QB. This is a QB league...to ignore the position year after year because we might "miss" on the pick is both foolish, short-sited, and dare I say...STUPID!

 

[DevilInPgh]

I have to say that i cant ever remember a rookie QB being taken with a"win now" tag apllied to him.Could Weeden do this?IDK

http://www.sports-central.org/sports/2012/02/01/the_best_rookie_quarterbacks_ever.php heres a good article.I would put Cam #1 and Big Ben #2 and none of these QB's were taken with a Win now approach.

Both Cam and Big Ben were taken as youngsters, about 21 years old. Weeden will turn 29 THIS season. He literally has only one year to show he can be a starter.

Also, Carolina was (and is) still in the middle of a big rebuild, and Big Ben was taken with the thinking that he would be third QB behind Tommy Maddox and Charlie Batch. Both got hurt, so Ben started Week 3 against the Fins in a hurricane, and the rest is history.

 

[Finfanforever]

Picking Tannehill at #8 means that the Fins forego drafting a potential rookie starter in the first round who could conceivably help the team improve its record in 2012 to reach for an over-hyped QB who is NOT NFL ready, and who could NOT be expected to come in for Moore if he got hurt with any realistic chance of success. In that case, then Tannehill is just another developmental QB who should be drafted after the first round, and maybe after the second.

As for Weeden, he's NOT the only developmental QB in the draft, and he might very well NOT be the best of the lot. That you think Tannehill is worth the #8 pick says that your QB evaluation skills consist of simply swallowing media hype without question.

I think Ireland should draft a developmental QB in this draft, but who he picks should be based on the Fins own evaluations not on media hype nor upon pleasing some vocal minority of fans.

I will also say this: if the Fins draft somebody other than Tannehill at #8 and he becomes a starter who helps the Fins get to 8-8 at least, most fans won't care that Ireland passed on Tannehill.

Since when is 8-8 a prize??? maybe for a Bills fan....:hsmash:

 

[Finfanforever]

Both Cam and Big Ben were taken as youngsters, about 21 years old. Weeden will turn 29 THIS season. He literally has only one year to show he can be a starter.

Also, Carolina was (and is) still in the middle of a big rebuild, and Big Ben was taken with the thinking that he would be third QB behind Tommy Maddox and Charlie Batch. Both got hurt, so Ben started Week 3 against the Fins in a hurricane, and the rest is history.

If you draft Weedon it is with the mindset that he competes now for the starting job.