Is Channing Crowder a Rick Speilman prospect?

[mfja9977]

I agree. The fact that Spielman is still there and he talking about Crowder means nothing. Saban coached against him. Look at it this way, the first four picks were players that he knew. Not ones that the scouts told him about. That says alot about how he trusts the scouts and GM. I think that very soon the entire dept will be given pink slips and told to hit the road. Thus allowing Nick to bring in some of his people. Also look at NE. They have only two people that make any decisions, Belichick and Pioli. There scouts are not even in the room with them during the draft. They answer questions when asked, they are not there to give their unsolicited opinions. I think that is the way that Nick will be moving. Getting a second in command that he trusts and can work with.

Crowder will be a nice pick for us. He's motivated to prove the doubters wrong.

 

[Wildbill3]

Well Bill, the title of the thread and its content insinuates or at least asks the question should Spielman be given credit for the Crowder pick?

exactly, it was a question, and it was answered, I felt that the answer to the question could have been handled better.

What is clear is that Saban with his first four selections chose players he had firsthand knowledge of and was comfortable with, picks that clearly were not unearthed by scouts.

Not unearthed by scouts? they were "unearthed" by scouts as you put it, everybody on the first day was projected to go in the First round, how is that not unearthed by scouts? Saban probably looked at his value board, saw a name that had the highest value and took it. Now if we were to ever find out that Crowder was rated at the same level as a guy who saban had never seen on the field before, and then saban made the comfort pick, then we'd know for sure that no one else had a influence on the pick. Crowder was a pure value pick.

I think we'll know soon the fate of Rick Spielman, I think Saban's lack of an endorsement of Ricks future in any way when he was asked tthe question speaks volumes.

You're right, but with the draft being over, what is to stop saban from firing rick right now? he likes something in the guy, and if you noticed Saban didn't say anything about anybody he deemed to keep or let go of. the longer rick stays the safer his job is.

 

[DPlus47]

Is Channing Crowder a Rick Spielman prospect?

Only someone uninformed would think so...................................


Quote:




http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/colum..._len&id=2049675

still waiting on the niners to sign rodgers...

 

[inFINSible]

Well Bill, the title of the thread and its content insinuates or at least asks the question should Spielman be given credit for the Crowder pick?

As you said, how involved Rick was is an unknown factor, so whats the point of the thread?

What's the point?? :rolleyes2

Would you rather I start a..."Who's your Favorite Dolphin player"...thread?

 

[inFINSible]

still waiting on the niners to sign rodgers...

..............and us to choose, Alex Smith.

 

[DPlus47]

What's the point?? :rolleyes2

Would you rather I start a..."Who's your Favorite Dolphin player"...thread?

no doubt you'd "lose" the argument in that thread as well...

 

[inFINSible]

no doubt you'd "lose" the argument in that thread as well...

yes sir-eee....

 

[BlueFin]

exactly, it was a question, and it was answered, I felt that the answer to the question could have been handled better.

Not unearthed by scouts? they were "unearthed" by scouts as you put it, everybody on the first day was projected to go in the First round, how is that not unearthed by scouts? Saban probably looked at his value board, saw a name that had the highest value and took it. Now if we were to ever find out that Crowder was rated at the same level as a guy who saban had never seen on the field before, and then saban made the comfort pick, then we'd know for sure that no one else had a influence on the pick. Crowder was a pure value pick.


You're right, but with the draft being over, what is to stop saban from firing rick right now? he likes something in the guy, and if you noticed Saban didn't say anything about anybody he deemed to keep or let go of. the longer rick stays the safer his job is.

Wrong Bill, Saban knew these players(rounds 1-4), he didn't need scouts to find them.

Saban has been a little tied up in mini-camp Bill, I'm betting Spielmans fate will be known in the next two weeks.

He was asked specifically about Spielman and he gave no sign of a postive endorsement, just that they were busy with mini-camp right then and would be looking at the organization shortly thereafter.

 

[islandah]

Well Bill, the title of the thread and its content insinuates or at least asks the question should Spielman be given credit for the Crowder pick?

As you said, how involved Rick was is an unknown factor, so whats the point of the thread?

What is clear is that Saban with his first four selections chose players he had firsthand knowledge of and was comfortable with, picks that clearly were not unearthed by scouts.

As entertaining as it's been, I think you actually completely missed the point of the thread, which was not "does Spielman deserve credit for the pick," but rather, "if he was given credit for the pick, would that change your opinion of it?" In other words, are you so knee-jerk biased against Spielman that his involvement in the pick would significantly alter your opinion of it? Your denial of his possible involvement tells me that 1.You think it's a good pick, and 2. You can't allow yourself to believe that Spielman had any significant involvement, due to you're subjective bias.

The quote that Saban picked the first four picks due to his personal involvement with little help from the scouts is naive, considering that Saban said from the beginning that he wanted a system in place to evaluate, grade and pick talent. Of course RS had a hand in it, as well as numerous other scouts, coaches, etc. And of course it was Saban's final call.

InFins just wanted to have an intelligent debate regarding your bias towards RS and when it became clear there was no further intelligent debate to be had, he lost interest. I think he started the thread to see who would take the bait - apparently he hooked a tuna.

 

[BlueFin]

As entertaining as it's been, I think you actually completely missed the point of the thread, which was not "does Spielman deserve credit for the pick," but rather, "if he was given credit for the pick, would that change your opinion of it?" In other words, are you so knee-jerk biased against Spielman that his involvement in the pick would significantly alter your opinion of it? Your denial of his possible involvement tells me that 1.You think it's a good pick, and 2. You can't allow yourself to believe that Spielman had any significant involvement, due to you're subjective bias.

The quote that Saban picked the first four picks due to his personal involvement with little help from the scouts is naive, considering that Saban said from the beginning that he wanted a system in place to evaluate, grade and pick talent. Of course RS had a hand in it, as well as numerous other scouts, coaches, etc. And of course it was Saban's final call.

InFins just wanted to have an intelligent debate regarding your bias towards RS and when it became clear there was no further intelligent debate to be had, he lost interest. I think he started the thread to see who would take the bait - apparently he hooked a tuna.

Wrong, I think its an ignorant question, Saban recruited the guy out of high school, it would be foolish to suggest that this was Spielman's guy.

I could care less what Spielman thinks of a prospect as he has failed to showed a good eye in the past, All I'm concerned with is what Saban thinks of a pick, as he is in charge and he makes the selections and he will succeed or fail because of them.........not Rick Spielman, he already proved himself incapable last year.

I'm fully aware of how a scouting department works, I'm quite sure Saban wants to hear everybodys opinions on these players, but in the end I don't think it would have mattered if Spielman hated Crowder, Saban had too much experience with the kid to let Spielmans hour at a Pro day affect his decision one way or the other.

 

[islandah]

Wrong, I think its an ignorant question, Saban recruited the guy out of high school, it would be foolish to suggest that this was Spielman's guy.

I could care less what Spielman thinks of a prospect as he has failed to showed a good eye in the past, All I'm concerned with is what Saban thinks of a pick, as he is in charge and he makes the selections and he will succeed or fail because of them.........not Rick Spielman, he already proved himself incapable last year.

I'm fully aware of how a scouting department works, I'm quite sure Saban wants to hear everybodys opinions on these players, but in the end I don't think it would have mattered if Spielman hated Crowder, Saban had too much experience with the kid to let Spielmans hour at a Pro day affect his decision one way or the other.

Right. Glad you got the point.

 

[inFINSible]

As entertaining as it's been, I think you actually completely missed the point of the thread, which was not "does Spielman deserve credit for the pick," but rather, "if he was given credit for the pick, would that change your opinion of it?" In other words, are you so knee-jerk biased against Spielman that his involvement in the pick would significantly alter your opinion of it? Your denial of his possible involvement tells me that 1.You think it's a good pick, and 2. You can't allow yourself to believe that Spielman had any significant involvement, due to you're subjective bias.

The quote that Saban picked the first four picks due to his personal involvement with little help from the scouts is naive, considering that Saban said from the beginning that he wanted a system in place to evaluate, grade and pick talent. Of course RS had a hand in it, as well as numerous other scouts, coaches, etc. And of course it was Saban's final call.

InFins just wanted to have an intelligent debate regarding your bias towards RS and when it became clear there was no further intelligent debate to be had, he lost interest. I think he started the thread to see who would take the bait - apparently he hooked a tuna.

Great post up until that last line....I would never do anything like that....:whistle:

 

[islandah]

Great post up until that last line....I would never do anything like that....:whistle:

Of course not. That would be wrong. My bad.

 

[inFINSible]

Of course not. That would be wrong. My bad.

No hard feelings.

At least I got my answer.

 

[MDFINFAN]

Wrong, I think its an ignorant question, Saban recruited the guy out of high school, it would be foolish to suggest that this was Spielman's guy.

I could care less what Spielman thinks of a prospect as he has failed to showed a good eye in the past, All I'm concerned with is what Saban thinks of a pick, as he is in charge and he makes the selections and he will succeed or fail because of them.........not Rick Spielman, he already proved himself incapable last year.

I'm fully aware of how a scouting department works, I'm quite sure Saban wants to hear everybodys opinions on these players, but in the end I don't think it would have mattered if Spielman hated Crowder, Saban had too much experience with the kid to let Spielmans hour at a Pro day affect his decision one way or the other.

You guys seem to miss the fact that Speilman and company had been scouting players well before Saban arrived, Saban said he wasn't displease with what Speilman and company had given him when he arrived, he later added he wanted to change the way the grading system was done..that's his call because he was given final say on all drafts. But to think that Saban personally hand picked every player is redicules. He doesn' t have the time for that and try to learn the organization, Hire coaches, make the changes he wants and reveiw the players we already have so that he knows where to start. I actually think Bates had a lot to do with where Saban started and ultimately ended up in hiring FA's and the draft. One man can't know every player..He knows a lot about the players coming out of college because was there with them. But your assistants and scouting department in College are the ones who set up where Saban was to recruit. He can't coach and know who's the best players coming out of high school at the same time, one area will fail..he sets up his system, base on his NFL days and let his scouts do the work. i.e,. Coaches tell GM's or Personnell guys what they want in a player, his measurables and all that stuff, since it's the coaches system that the players will be playing in. I'm sure once Saban told Rick and company what he wanted, they gave him a list of players that fit the description per each position..They probably gave a list of of the top 32 in each position. Saban probably added his system of grading which probably changed the order of each player in those positions, then the coaches and Saban reveiwed Tape, visited, and discuss each position to come up with their priority list. Saban did not visist Vickerson, he had him on the list and got a recommendation from vickerson's coach..Alibau was on the list and Saban sent Houck to go check him out, base on the ratings and Houck's write up, they went with that pick. But it all starts with the scouting and write ups from the personnel staff. If they didn't bring him good info, he wouldn't have had a clue, he only knew of the players in his divsion, and I'm sure he didn't have a list of the best at each position in the SEC 1-30..I'm sure Speilman did. Then there's the rest of the college league to consider and no way Saban knew them as well, that's how you invite undrafted rookies to camp..Speilman and company..Was Crowder on Speilman's list of top LB's before Saban got there, you better believe it. If Speilman can spot a Pope and Bua, a poole, a Hadnot, Carey, and Papa, who are all still on the team, he can bet he saw a Crowder, If that makes you guys hate that player and you act that naive, then so be it...but I bet Speilman knew as much or more about every draftee we had as the coach. The man has a eye for talent whether you like him or not just for being with Wanny, I'm sure he also got Wanny what he wanted too..different grading system for that coaching style. Saban may get rid of him, because of ego, which would be my bet, or just wants all the glory if the team turns around..but it won't change the fact that we will loose a good talent evaluator.