Is Philbin A Leader of Men? | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Is Philbin A Leader of Men?

GoonBoss said:
That's you reading into what I say. I have no idea what qualifications the people you speak to do or do not have. I had no idea
what your qualifications were until you stated them. I'll take that at face value. Would you value the opinion of a person who
has played football, or has been under Philbins purview, etc's opinion more or less than some 21 year old that lives in his mom's basement?
I know which opinion I'd value more, your mileage may vary.

Everyone, to include Hartline has a right to express an opinion. I would simply say that Hartline's opinion carries more weight with me
than some dude leaning on a water cooler. As far as JT's feelings about Sparano, they are his own. Sparano was that firey, fist pumping type.
Maybe that's what JT likes and responds to. Philbin is a more reserved, stoic type. Maybe that's what Hartline responds to. If you know anything
at all about leadership you'll know that everyone responds to different managementand leadership styles, teqniques and characteristics differently. Not everyone
needs to be kicked in the ass, while other people need to be, etc.

As I've said before; You, and everyone else is free to give your opinion. Your little....."focus group" included.

What IS your opinion by the way? I don't think I ever saw you state one. Just a bunch of generalizations
and irrational strawmen. It's assinine to even bring up this sort of thing when it's clear that his team thinks
he's doing a fine job and has responded to him well.
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First off, drop the water cooler. These are long time fans at a construction site, and assorted season ticket holders, as well as other team's fans, at Happy Hour. It is similar to this forum.

While player's views on coaches should be much better than a fan, they are giving it on their Boss. In the history of the NFL, how many players have ever said that their Boss sucked, and they did not like him?

For me, I was impressed with what Philbin did in his first year. The team did better than I thought they would with all the changes, and and a lack of talent at receiver. However, I do have some questions on how strong a leader he can be, somewhat based on what I saw in Hard Knocks.

I do like the man, his attention to detail, his intelligence and knowledge. However, I do question his display of authority and showing of emotion to a lessor degree. That is just me, and my opinion.

OK, what are your qualifications to question that of others. Turnabout is fair play, no?
 
Southbeach 2 said:
First off, drop the water cooler. These are long time fans at a construction site, and assorted season ticket holders, as well as other team's fans, at Happy Hour. It is similar to this forum.

While player's views on coaches should be much better than a fan, they are giving it on their Boss. In the history of the NFL, how many players have ever said that their Boss sucked, and they did not like him?

For me, I was impressed with what Philbin did in his first year. The team did better than I thought they would with all the changes, and and a lack of talent at receiver. However, I do have some questions on how strong a leader he can be, somewhat based on what I saw in Hard Knocks.

I do like the man, his attention to detail, his intelligence and knowledge. However, I do question his display of authority and showing of emotion to a lessor degree. That is just me, and my opinion.

OK, what are your qualifications to question that of others. Turnabout is fair play, no?
Click to expand...
I don't need any qualifications to question the qualifications of others. I don't understand why you're all butthurt
about me questioning what their qualifications are to judge the leadership qualities of someone whom they've never
been tasked, or asked to follow. You seem to be genuinely offended.

I guess now you are accusing Hartline and Spitler of being liars because they said they were impressed with the
whole culture change and attitude of the team in the latest news and notes that you can read right here on
Finheaven? All NFL players are liars when speaking about their bosses, based on what you just posted.

I suppose you'd like my qualifications to judge leadership characteristics? That's what I can give you. I don't need
any to question who it is giving an opinion, no matter how stupid, or assinine it may be.

-5 years as an Army Non Commissioned officer, in two different grades.
-10 years as a project manager on jobsites of 1-110 junior supervisors and personnel.
-5 years in various management an leadership capacities in manufacturing and retail sales.
-1 season as an offensive co captain of a state 2A championship runner up football team.

I mean...Some Jets fan leaning on a jackhammer on a construction site somewhere might be
better to judge the "Leader Of Men" qualifications that me...I'll give you that. Then again, he
may just be a jackass that hates the Dolphins and has an axe to grind. So, forgive me if
the opinions of other teams fans on our head coach don't impress me.

Philbin has done exactly what a leader does.
-He takes control of his surroundings and circumstances, controls what he can, and exerts influence
higher to handle things that are not in his power to handle. He has shown both compassion and empathy
for those players that he has had to part ways with, while meticulously going about cutting away
those elements that chose not to conform to his vision of what his organization is going to be.
Sloppiness and unprofessionalism are not tolerated, and he is willing to listen to the input of
both his subordinate leaders and his charges. He has shown both tactical and technical knowledge, as
well as audacity, while at the same time bringing junior members of his organization slowly, and
within their capabilities. He's shown faith in, and loyalty to key members in his organization, even
when things weren't going right and the chips were down.

What exactly is it you want the man to do to satisfy you? Do you want him to be a jackass and a buffoon?
Maybe get some pom poms and fist pump some?
 
GoonBoss said:
I don't need any qualifications to question the qualifications of others. I don't understand why you're all butthurt
about me questioning what their qualifications are to judge the leadership qualities of someone whom they've never
been tasked, or asked to follow. You seem to be genuinely offended.

I guess now you are accusing Hartline and Spitler of being liars because they said they were impressed with the
whole culture change and attitude of the team in the latest news and notes that you can read right here on
Finheaven? All NFL players are liars when speaking about their bosses, based on what you just posted.

I suppose you'd like my qualifications to judge leadership characteristics? That's what I can give you. I don't need
any to question who it is giving an opinion, no matter how stupid, or assinine it may be.

-5 years as an Army Non Commissioned officer, in two different grades.
-10 years as a project manager on jobsites of 1-110 junior supervisors and personnel.
-5 years in various management an leadership capacities in manufacturing and retail sales.
-1 season as an offensive co captain of a state 2A championship runner up football team.

I mean...Some Jets fan leaning on a jackhammer on a construction site somewhere might be
better to judge the "Leader Of Men" qualifications that me...I'll give you that. Then again, he
may just be a jackass that hates the Dolphins and has an axe to grind. So, forgive me if
the opinions of other teams fans on our head coach don't impress me.

Philbin has done exactly what a leader does.
-He takes control of his surroundings and circumstances, controls what he can, and exerts influence
higher to handle things that are not in his power to handle. He has shown both compassion and empathy
for those players that he has had to part ways with, while meticulously going about cutting away
those elements that chose not to conform to his vision of what his organization is going to be.
Sloppiness and unprofessionalism are not tolerated, and he is willing to listen to the input of
both his subordinate leaders and his charges. He has shown both tactical and technical knowledge, as
well as audacity, while at the same time bringing junior members of his organization slowly, and
within their capabilities. He's shown faith in, and loyalty to key members in his organization, even
when things weren't going right and the chips were down.

What exactly is it you want the man to do to satisfy you? Do you want him to be a jackass and a buffoon?
Maybe get some pom poms and fist pump some?
Click to expand...

Appearances can be deceiving. I'm just defending the opinions of others as mattering.

That is a nice resume, which deserves respect, and is given. For whatever reason, you seem to be overly defensive on Philbin, when all that is being done is the same as all coaches (for better or worse) over many a year. I do not understand it but, you must have your reasons.

I do not see us agreeing on this little discussion/debate. Although I did enjoy it, I have to think that we can just agree to disagree.
 
A BLAST FROM THE PAST.

A friend reminded me of this thread started in July. I have never looked up old threads before but, thought it would be interesting to resurrect this one to see if anyone's opinions had changed?
 
He's still a leader of men in my book, but you don't always get a locker room full of men. Sometime you need to be a leader of children too (see Brandon Marshall).
 
Could you picture Don Shula reading a victory speech to his team from cue cards???
 
I think the question is irrelevant, because I think the HC's job with regard to leadership is to cultivate leaders among the players and then get out of the way and let those players lead their teammates.

See here, for example:

[video=youtube;gpOG9K02F_g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpOG9K02F_g[/video]

The story goes that Bill Parcells, when his team wasn't practicing well, would take his assistants and walk off the field, leaving the players to sort out the problem and get themselves together. Leaders among the players can emerge from things like that.

Likewise, with the way the Dolphins are supposedly functioning right about now, leaders can emerge, or the they can remain absent, and the team can start to circle the drain. It's going to take the emergence of leaders among the players to right the ship right now, not anything Joe Philbin does or doesn't do.
 
Not sure on that Sho. Did Philbin show, by his removing leaders, that he does not want them or, that they have to be his type of leader? Can a player emerge without being afraid of being cut or traded?
 
Southbeach 2 said:
Not sure on that Sho. Did Philbin show, by his removing leaders, that he does not want them or, that they have to be his type of leader? Can a player emerge without being afraid of being cut or traded?
Click to expand...
I think Philbin made a clear statement about his desire for leaders among the players by establishing a new leadership council after the members of the last one departed, and I don't see anything to suggest that players are in fear of being cut or traded if they lead their teammates in a high-character manner.

If you look at all of the dynasties that have arisen the NFL, what you'll find is very strong leaders among the players who disseminate the head coach's philosophy, or "program," to their teammates. Those players "buy in" and get their teammates, who look up to them, to "buy in" as well. This was Joe Montana and Ronnie Lott in San Francisco, Michael Irvin and Emmitt Smith in Dallas, and Tom Brady and Tedy Bruschi in New England.

This is the recipe for very high-level success in the NFL, though of course it requires at least a certain level of physical talent, as well.
 
I think Sherman might have to go I like philbin as the hc idk if he's got the balls to fire sherman
 
I like a Lot of Philbin's qualities, and I think he definitely has what it takes to be a special head coach, but I think he under-performs more often than not. I don't think he threw one challenge flag in the Pats game, and there were clearly many opportunities for that, EVEN IF he wouldn't win them and lose a timeout, just show some tenacity for your team!

More so a problem is him trusting Sherman to get it done. I don't think that's going anywhere. I think Philbin is indeed looking for changes in the gameplan at halftime, but his coordinators aren't executing. This is where he needs to step in and take charge during the game. He's just too stand-offish.

Also, the personnel on the field is clearly inept compared to who Can be on the field. Why stick with Vernon / Misi over Dion Jordan, who's a much better player? So frustrating. Jamar Taylor needs a "Have You Seen Me?" milk carton.

TL;DR: Philbin can certainly be good, but NEEDS to be better.
 
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