It was the un-coachable Dolphins Defense not Fangio.......... | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

It was the un-coachable Dolphins Defense not Fangio..........

I never saw Fangio as a problem. His success everywhere spoke volumes, but it was apparent Miami wasn't his choice and his heart didn't seem into it down the stretch.

I didn't necessarily like that he coached from upstairs on game days, but again the results speak for themselves.

It's good to see the Dolphins moving on from players who don't seem to be team guys, or want to put in the work.

Moving forward, you don't pay big contracts to players who aren't leaders or who cause problems. I think we are already seeing that culture change.
 
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Neptune said:
I can’t disagree with that. Fangio was more old school, discipline and accountability count for something, and his results everywhere except Miami speak for themselves.
Was he a square peg in a round hole in McD’s pink and fluffy Miami? Probably
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Fair enough.
 
danmarino7051 said:
You’re trying to compare apples to oranges.

First, players back then the players weren’t millionaires. They did OK (made like $25k per year… which is about $150k in today’s money.)

Second, the players were still the ones who built the culture. Zonk, Griese, Little… and others…built the culture.

Third, I get the need to romanticize sports and the athletes. It’s like kids believing in magic. The HC is a part of the team, so in that he is A PART of making that culture. But they are a small, very small, part of it.

Last, how can a HC, particularly in today’s times, going to punish a player? They can’t. They can bench them and possibly lose a game or more. They can suggest that the league fines them. (Players won’t care). What’s left? Yelling? The HC is a teacher and motivator and manager…not much else. At least in the NFL. Do you think it was Belichick who set the culture in New England? Why did they suck and turn undisciplined and lazy in one season? Brady set the culture there.
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So after Brady got to elite status, and still got his ass jumped by the OC and HC, that was all him making that happen...got it.

Belicheat set that culture, he just had good soldiers to carry it forward.

You'll never get it.
 
derek said:
Yeah, there was nothing accidental about the Fangio hire. McDaniel was familiar with him and the style he brought. It's clear to me that 1) Vic's heart was elsewhere and 2) we had too many turds in the locker room. Too bad, but I'm more than content with Weaver as long as he stays here.
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Since I wasn't in the locker room I'll never really know.

This article may be right, but I believe your two bolded points are more likely to be true.

The performance of the secondary this year will, to a great extent, tell the tale - was the problem Fangio or can Weaver do better with some of the personnel changes being made to this defense along with some of the coaching changes we have made on the defensive side of the ball?

Maybe it will turn out to have been a little (or a lot) of both. - LOL
 
Atila said:
I agree with this. If he wanted to be here he would have made it work, it really is that simple. He would have tried harder.

I think it was made apparent to him very early on that the Eagles job would be his the following season and he checked out. He's going to be grumpy either way, but if he doesn't care, then its going to be an unbearable situation for EVERYONE.
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I really think you've nailed it with your 1st paragraph.
 
Secondary was the issue and hopefully that’s what’s fixed with holland and Ramsey gone. Both were outspoken against Fangio and clearly didn’t buy in. I don’t think Fangio did a great job but I also don’t believe key players especially the secondary bought in. Glad both will be gone soon.
 
MARINO1384 said:
Secondary was the issue and hopefully that’s what’s fixed with holland and Ramsey gone. Both were outspoken against Fangio and clearly didn’t buy in. I don’t think Fangio did a great job but I also don’t believe key players especially the secondary bought in. Glad both will be gone soon.
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In all fairness, if this was the case, then it was the HC's responsibility to straighten up that kind of mess.

This is exactly the kind of a situation where I feel a new, inexperienced HC may not perform well. That's why we have the expression "Learn from experience".

Making a mistake isn't the sin. It's failing to learn from that mistake would be the sin.

Has Mike learned from this experience? - I certainly hope so.

It's beginning to look like he has, based on the changes being made in personnel on the defense. Our final roster should be "discussion worthy", especially the defense where I think there will be a lot of player selections made that will surprise a lot of the posters here.
 
zullo1 said:
I agree with your points 1 and 2, but I'm still not sure if Weaver is the answer. Most here act like Weaver is great. But too many times last year the defense folded when they needed to make a stand. If he can make chicken salad out of the chicken shite he has this year, I will sing his praises.
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I think he proved that he's capable of that with a lesser roster last year. He's going to be weaker at CB this time around, but the front 7 are far better if they can stay healthy, and the Safety room is a push at worst IMHO. I'm a fan of the system in general, but I'll concede that he was slow to adjust at first. They did well for how often they were put into losing situations by our backup QB led offenses.
 
Ray R said:
In all fairness, if this was the case, then it was the HC's responsibility to straighten up that kind of mess.

This is exactly the kind of a situation where I feel a new, inexperienced HC may not perform well. That's why we have the expression "Learn from experience".

Making a mistake isn't the sin. It's failing to learn from that mistake would be the sin.

Has Mike learned from this experience? - I certainly hope so.

It's beginning to look like he has, based on the changes being made in personnel on the defense. Our final roster should be "discussion worthy", especially the defense where I think there will be a lot of player selections made that will surprise a lot of the posters here.
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Very fair and well stated. I agree about this year. I believe our defense will be a pleasant surprise.
 
danmarino7051 said:
You’re trying to compare apples to oranges.

First, players back then the players weren’t millionaires. They did OK (made like $25k per year… which is about $150k in today’s money.)

Second, the players were still the ones who built the culture. Zonk, Griese, Little… and others…built the culture.

Third, I get the need to romanticize sports and the athletes. It’s like kids believing in magic. The HC is a part of the team, so in that he is A PART of making that culture. But they are a small, very small, part of it.

Last, how can a HC, particularly in today’s times, going to punish a player? They can’t. They can bench them and possibly lose a game or more. They can suggest that the league fines them. (Players won’t care). What’s left? Yelling? The HC is a teacher and motivator and manager…not much else. At least in the NFL. Do you think it was Belichick who set the culture in New England? Why did they suck and turn undisciplined and lazy in one season? Brady set the culture there.
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It is possible both are true. Players AND HC make the culture. It's not possible to say Mcd is soft on players and doesn't hold them accountable and, at the same time, say the HC doesn't influence culture (you didn't say that). HC sets the overall culture and players set culture within that environment.
 
MARINO1384 said:
Secondary was the issue and hopefully that’s what’s fixed with holland and Ramsey gone. Both were outspoken against Fangio and clearly didn’t buy in. I don’t think Fangio did a great job but I also don’t believe key players especially the secondary bought in. Glad both will be gone soon.
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As others have said, Fang was good until he wasn't. Looked like 2H of TEN game he mailed it in and the D was never the same.
 
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