Jaylen Waddle | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Jaylen Waddle

Dynastybuilder said:
I meant more in the sense of special teams production vs receiving production. Yes, Waddle was on pace for a great year before his injury but in years prior put up nothing special. If i'm drafting a receiver in the top 10 (Hill was in the 2nd?) I want some production at the college level.
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He was behind Jeudy, Ruggs, and Smith. All those guys were Jr's while he was a Soph. He had 848 yards as a Freshman in the same crowded field (2nd most on the team). That year they also had a future 2nd round TE putting up 710 yards as well (Irv Smith).

The next season he had a down year, while Smith lead the team in yards and TD's. But Waddle was playing with three other future 1st rounders and was a year younger than them. Not hard to understand why sustained production was difficult.

Once he got his chance to be a full time starter, he was averaging 139 yards through 4 games. I would have liked to see more. Who wouldn't?

But you can't just overlook what he did as a Freshman. Anyone that wasn't a special talent would have been an afterthought in that offense.


Sidenote: Ruggs was always the fraud. It was so damn obvious.
 
TheRevoltingBlob said:
He was behind Jeudy, Ruggs, and Smith. All those guys were Jr's while he was a Soph. He had 848 yards as a Freshman in the same crowded field (2nd most on the team). That year they also had a future 2nd round TE putting up 710 yards as well (Irv Smith).

The next season he had a down year, while Smith lead the team in yards and TD's. But Waddle was playing with three other future 1st rounders and was a year younger than them. Not hard to understand why sustained production was difficult.

Once he got his chance to be a full time starter, he was averaging 139 yards through 4 games. I would have liked to see more. Who wouldn't?

But you can't just overlook what he did as a Freshman. Anyone that wasn't a special talent would have been an afterthought in that offense.


Sidenote: Ruggs was always the fraud. It was so damn obvious.
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I did not have a 1st round grade on Ruggs. I laughed when he was the first taken. Between him, Arnette and Ferrell I think they've shown their ineptitude at the draft table.
 
Digital said:
OK, so do you remember the Alabama team with Henry Ruggs II? I like Waddle, but he's not significantly bigger than Ruggs. You can claim Waddle is the more polished WR, but at the very least I think that's an open debate, because this time last year Ruggs showed his versatility at the Combine and elsewhere and made a believer of most scouts. At the end of the day nobody doubts the elite speed of either Ruggs or Waddle. But, everyone questions being in an all-star team at Alabama and the completely different physicality of CB press coverage in the NFL compared to the soft touch college kids. Not saying Ruggs will not prove to be good, but he was chosen over Justin Jefferson, Jerry Jeudy, and a bunch of better big WR's in the 2nd round like Chase Claypool and Tee Higgins. Size matters far more in the NFL than it does in the collegiate ranks. Waddle will likely succeed and be great ... but there are very low success rate for guys like Tyreek Hill.

Mark Duper was a different era, when DB's were allowed to clobber WR's all the way down the field, so if you didn't have elite accelleration and speed, you never generated any separation at all. Today's NFL is 1,000% easier for QB's and WR's because the DB's are only allowed to touch the WR in a small window at the line of scrimmage. The bigger WR's simply push through that and are quickly into their routes in an area where the DB's get called for pass interference today for doing anything even remotely close to what they could legally do in Duper's era. So that momentary delay at the line of scrimmage throws the WR off his timing route, and those precision fast throw short passing offenses everyone runs today don't work and the WR doesn't do great.

Also, it's worth noting that Tyreek Hills routes are usually longer, and Patrick Mahomes is exceptional at buying time and making off-platform throws so he can extend the play until Hill eventually gets into open space in the secondary. While our hope is that one day Tua will be able to do that and our OL will be able to give him time to do that ... we're certainly not there yet, and very few NFL clubs are at that point. Maybe Seattle because Wilson is so good at it, maybe where ever Deshaun Watson lands, a couple others maybe, but not the Dolphins. So if he comes here, Waddle will need to win vs. press coverage, because we're not built to buy him time. Hill was cut off in the Super Bowl because Mahomes was running for his life. And if KC with a great OL and QB situation can't make it work, I don't have much hope for us. OL has not really been our strength since Shula retired.
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Would be nice, like you said, the OL can hold for 3.5 seconds and allow Waddle time to run deep route. However he is also effective in turning shollow slant route or square in route into big gain by burning the jet after catch.

His presence alone attract the attention of the safety as well as the cb. It makes the short and intermediate area less crowded, therefore open up more room for Parker and Gesicke to operate.

He is someone the other teams need to game plan for. I don't see it in Smith or Chase.
 
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kcbrown said:
I've watched Waddle and Smith highlights several times now….and to me, and I am no expert…but Waddle just has that extra juice, that shake, that wiggle, that burn that jumps out to me a little more than Smith.

Waddle looks more like a Mark Clayton to me - and Clayton never gets talked about - but Mark Clayton was a damn beast.

I would be happy with Smith too (and of course Pitts), but I am surprised so many on Finheaven seem ok with picking Smith at 6, as he reminds me of a Ted Ginn Jr. burner type - who this whole board complained about for years.

Waddle is just nasty.

So give me Waddle early; and then give me Amon or Dyami later and lets go to the AFC Championship game!

Adios Grant, adios Hurns….and if necessary, adios Wilson and Perry as well.
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That inside slant he took to the house against Auburn was absolutely insane. HOW DID HE SCORE THERE!?

That's speed you just can't teach. That's why he keeps getting this Tyreek Hill comparison. That and because he's relatively strong as attacking the ball in the air for a small speed guy, ala Tyreek.

But god... Pitts just is every single type of receiver. He's shaking 5'10 190 speed guys because he's a beautiful runner who can out muscle them. He'll outun the 6'1 safeties who cover him when he's inline at TE... he can score in the redzone PERIOD. He'd be Tua's best friend.

This is such a had decision. I do not envy Grier's decision.
 
Gatorboy999120 said:
Better than any Miami Hurricanes WR the last 10 years. Sadly.
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I think the difference between you and I is that I care about the Dolphins 1000 times more than I care about any college football program. I couldn't give a rat's ass if we drafted a player from Kenya if he was going to light it up in the NFL. I watch college football to look for incoming players primarily, and root for the Canes secondarily.

Ed Reed was a great Hurricane, hated him as a Raven. I get the feeling if Pitts is drafted by the Falcons you'll change teams.
 
Dan13Forever said:
Would be nice, like you said, the OL can hold for 3.5 seconds and allow Waddle time to run deep route. However he is also effective in turning shollow slant route or square in route into big gain by burning the jet after catch.

His presence alone attract the attention of the safety as well as the cb. It makes the short and intermediate area less crowded, therefore open up more room for Parker and Gesicke to operate.

He is someone the other teams need to game plan for. I don't see it in Smith or Xhase.
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He'll definitely hold the deep safety attention, no disagreement there! Elite speed must be respected or it will break you, and Waddle has it. Not sure how well he'll fare against those physical press CB's in the NFL though. And DC's aren't dumb, they'll feed him a steady diet of physical press cover CB's with a safety over the top, like you suggest. The question is whether he can beat the press and do it fast enough to be where the play calls for him to be when his window in the progression comes up? If he's 0.25 seconds slow, the QB may have progressed past him and its too late to generate the separation because he's missed the window.

That's why the press win is so important, and why almost every QB prioritizes beating it. I remember when Tony Romo (excellent announcer now btw) was the Dallas QB and they asked him about their WR situation, did he prefer this receiver or that receiver, and he answered "whoever can beat press coverage." Because at the end of the day the pass play in the NFL is a race, can the pass rush reach the QB before he has to let go of the ball? The first second or so is his drop if he's under center, if it's a shotgun it's the first half-second for ball travel and set. Then the read phase begins, and he's probably got 0.5 to 1.0 seconds to read. We're now 2 to 2.5 seconds into the play and the QB needs to already know 1) who will get open, 2) when and where they will get open, 3) feel the pass rush and anticipate his internal clock to see if he has more or less than 3 seconds, and 4) set his platform and generate velocity and release. Guys that are 0.25 seconds late screw with the whole thing ... because while Brady seems to have all day to pass, most QB's do not.

It seems counter-intuitive that the fastest guy is the slowest to arrive, but that's because his speed is more than negated by the dramatic increase in physicality at the line of scrimmage. Those bigger, stronger WR's can simply push through that short line of scrimmage bump zone and get into their routes quicker. For edge rushers it's known as speed-to-power conversion, but really, a WR has to do a power-to-speed conversion, and if they don't have that initial power ... it's an uphill battle.
 
Waddle was having a better season...and Smith got lucky he went down in a sense because it helped him have a way better season statistically than he was on pace for BY FAR! Least we forget!
 
You guys get personal it is gonna be deleted every time and if you continue you will get points

Trying not to go there so please knock it off
 
Digital said:
He'll definitely hold the deep safety attention, no disagreement there! Elite speed must be respected or it will break you, and Waddle has it. Not sure how well he'll fare against those physical press CB's in the NFL though. And DC's aren't dumb, they'll feed him a steady diet of physical press cover CB's with a safety over the top, like you suggest. The question is whether he can beat the press and do it fast enough to be where the play calls for him to be when his window in the progression comes up? If he's 0.25 seconds slow, the QB may have progressed past him and its too late to generate the separation because he's missed the window.

That's why the press win is so important, and why almost every QB prioritizes beating it. I remember when Tony Romo (excellent announcer now btw) was the Dallas QB and they asked him about their WR situation, did he prefer this receiver or that receiver, and he answered "whoever can beat press coverage." Because at the end of the day the pass play in the NFL is a race, can the pass rush reach the QB before he has to let go of the ball? The first second or so is his drop if he's under center, if it's a shotgun it's the first half-second for ball travel and set. Then the read phase begins, and he's probably got 0.5 to 1.0 seconds to read. We're now 2 to 2.5 seconds into the play and the QB needs to already know 1) who will get open, 2) when and where they will get open, 3) feel the pass rush and anticipate his internal clock to see if he has more or less than 3 seconds, and 4) set his platform and generate velocity and release. Guys that are 0.25 seconds late screw with the whole thing ... because while Brady seems to have all day to pass, most QB's do not.

It seems counter-intuitive that the fastest guy is the slowest to arrive, but that's because his speed is more than negated by the dramatic increase in physicality at the line of scrimmage. Those bigger, stronger WR's can simply push through that short line of scrimmage bump zone and get into their routes quicker. For edge rushers it's known as speed-to-power conversion, but really, a WR has to do a power-to-speed conversion, and if they don't have that initial power ... it's an uphill battle.
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Face against speedy wr, i see the DC deploys more buffer strategy, 7 yards deep from the line and start back paddling at the snap, rather than play tight and press.
Press is dangerous as once cb got beat at the first contact, there is a chance the safety not in time to roll over. The result is a TD.
Of cause, the defence will do some press to mix it up, i think the cb will play buffer most of the time thou.
Just my 2 cents. What do I know, i am just someone who pretend to know a little football on the internet.
 
Waddle intrigues me not only as a Fast WR that can play slot or on the outside..but a punt returning savant..that's where my comparison of Tyreek Hill comes in...100%! That's the added element for him! And it's a huge asset!
 
Dan13Forever said:
Face against speedy wr, i see the DC deploys more buffer strategy, 7 yards deep from the line and start back paddling at the snap, rather than play tight and press.
Press is dangerous as once cb got beat at the first contact, there is a chance the safety not in time to roll over. The result is a TD.
Of cause, the defence will do some press to mix it up, i think the cb will play buffer most of the time thou.
Just my 2 cents. What do I know, i am just someone who pretend to know a little football on the internet.
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To me anyways more than ever it comes down to matchups by team. You see a mismatch, you exploit it. BB and Reid have been doing it for years. That's why modern D's crave versatility, and start different players different weeks. Again, i'm just another idiot football fan on the internet.
 
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