Joe-28th ranked coach?

[MRojas4]

Well..

What do people expect?

Getting your QB killed and setting a NFL sacks record against doesn't get you points.

Clear shot at the playoffs and late season collapse against 2 sub-par teams doesn't get you points.

Sure we could bitch about Joe being to Low, but realistically the guy has proven nothing apart from being a 8-8, 7-9 type coach.

Do you factor in the Snake Martin fiasco as part of his coaching? Lose the locker room in a media whirlwind.

Do you factor in Joe keeping Sherms and his pathetic play calling?

Sure, some of the coaches listed get a bump up because of tenure and previous success, but it is what it is.

This is the show me year for Joe and Tannehill.

Year 3, no excuses.

 

[rent this space]

And you know that Philbin asked for Brandon Albert?? Or did he ask for a upgrade at LT?? From what I have heard Lazor has complete control of the offense, that might include personal advice, how do you know it wasn't Lazor that asked for Albert, or and upgrade??

No one knows anything for sure except those involved but I'm going by this report:

http://dailydolphin.blog.palmbeachp...e-wanted-martin-at-left-tackle/?__federated=1

 

[roy_miami]

Yeah Ireland made his own bed when he agreed to stay on after the owner overrode his decision to get the coach he wanted and agreed to settle for Philbin.

Of course you won't give Ireland credit for what he did correctly, just like you want to complain about the position Ireland and Dawn left the team rather than over spending on overrated players. Ireland made many mistakes as do all GMs, but Philbin was the one who coached the team that folded up like a cheap tent in the biggest games of the year. Show me a great coach in the history of the NFL that found a way to lose the last two games of the year with the playoffs on the line

John Harbaugh in 2013.

 

[roy_miami]

And you know that Philbin asked for Brandon Albert?? Or did he ask for a upgrade at LT?? From what I have heard Lazor has complete control of the offense, that might include personal advice, how do you know it wasn't Lazor that asked for Albert, or and upgrade??

You believe a report that speculates Lazor might have complete control of the offense based on hearsay based on a quote from members of a different organization that simply says they advised him not to take the job unless he gets complete control? No where does anybody say he actually has "complete control." And what does "complete control" even mean anyway?

So you choose to believe quotes from another organization and add your own spin to it to suggest its proof Lazor has control, but you choose not to believe multiple reports that specifically state Philbin wanted an upgrade at LT and Ireland said no?

 

[HoneyB]

No one knows anything for sure except those involved but I'm going by this report:

http://dailydolphin.blog.palmbeachp...e-wanted-martin-at-left-tackle/?__federated=1

However, according to a source, Coach Joe Philbin wanted the Dolphins to trade for Albert last offseason. And then-GM Jeff Ireland overruled it.

Does that make ANY sense to you? If Ireland "overruled" it, then why did he go through all that hard work in negotiating with him and his team? Why did he get Aponte to crunch numbers? Did you know that Ireland actually got Albert to agree to a figure for a contract? The part they couldn't agree on was the draft pick in the trade.

As far as Philbin wanting Albert, a coach can want a lot of things. Maybe THIS year Philbin "wanted" a guy Hickey didn't give him. Part of Hickey's job is to fill holes and get players we need, and decide what is a need and what is a "want." When Ireland's in negotiations with Albert, he has to decide if the high cost is worth the product, for one thing, and for another if he has a backup plan. He has to know what Martin is capable of. When Sherman and Turner are praising Martin left and right...it's hard to believe that a clear message was sent to Ireland that we HAVE to either draft a replacement for Martin or get a veteran in FA. It's completely unconvincing to me.

If you're interested in more of the timeline, here's my post from 1/5/2014

http://www.finheaven.com/showthread...get-this-Offensive-line-Here-s-How&highlight=

 

[roy_miami]

Does that make ANY sense to you? If Ireland "overruled" it, then why did he go through all that hard work in negotiating with him and his team? Why did he get Aponte to crunch numbers? Did you know that Ireland actually got Albert to agree to a figure for a contract? The part they couldn't agree on was the draft pick in the trade.

As far as Philbin wanting Albert, a coach can want a lot of things. Maybe THIS year Philbin "wanted" a guy Hickey didn't give him. Part of Hickey's job is to fill holes and get players we need, and decide what is a need and what is a "want." When Ireland's in negotiations with Albert, he has to decide if the high cost is worth the product, for one thing, and for another if he has a backup plan. He has to know what Martin is capable of. When Sherman and Turner are praising Martin left and right...it's hard to believe that a clear message was sent to Ireland that we HAVE to either draft a replacement for Martin or get a veteran in FA. It's completely unconvincing to me.

If you're interested in more of the timeline, here's my post from 1/5/2014

http://www.finheaven.com/showthread...get-this-Offensive-line-Here-s-How&highlight=

So Ireland had a clear message from the coaches that Martin would be a fine LT yet he's negotiating to make the trade for Albert anyway. What precipitated even contemplating the trade then?

And even if your theory is true Ireland's job is to put together a good roster, thats Ireland's job, his only job. If he want's to listen to Philbin or Dawn or his cat or whoever as long as it works thats fine. But if Philbin tells Ireland Martin is a good player and he turns out to be a terrible player then its still Ireland's fault, because Ireland's job is to make sure our LT is a good player. THAT IS HIS ONLY JOB.

 

[rent this space]

Does that make ANY sense to you? If Ireland "overruled" it, then why did he go through all that hard work in negotiating with him and his team? Why did he get Aponte to crunch numbers? Did you know that Ireland actually got Albert to agree to a figure for a contract? The part they couldn't agree on was the draft pick in the trade.

As far as Philbin wanting Albert, a coach can want a lot of things. Maybe THIS year Philbin "wanted" a guy Hickey didn't give him. Part of Hickey's job is to fill holes and get players we need, and decide what is a need and what is a "want." When Ireland's in negotiations with Albert, he has to decide if the high cost is worth the product, for one thing, and for another if he has a backup plan. He has to know what Martin is capable of. When Sherman and Turner are praising Martin left and right...it's hard to believe that a clear message was sent to Ireland that we HAVE to either draft a replacement for Martin or get a veteran in FA. It's completely unconvincing to me.

If you're interested in more of the timeline, here's my post from 1/5/2014

http://www.finheaven.com/showthread...get-this-Offensive-line-Here-s-How&highlight=

first of all Aponte would be the one negotiating the terms of the contract, not Ireland. it stands to reason she would go the extra mile for her friend Philbin if he expressed his interest.
also, this "praise" you keep mentioning was nothing more than coach-speak at a press conference and lukewarm at best. To me, "quietly making progress" doesn't sound they were very confident in his ability, maybe that is high praise to you.
so we have a coach who asks for an upgrade at LT and reportedly asks for a particular player. the contract negotiator completes an agreement financially with that player and the only thing that stops the deal is trade compensation?
that can only mean the GM killed the deal, not the coach or anyone else.
to answer your question, yes it does appear the Jeff Ireland decided against adding a player the coach asked for.

 

[HoneyB]

first of all Aponte would be the one negotiating the terms of the contract, not Ireland. it stands to reason she would go the extra mile for her friend Philbin if he expressed his interest.
also, this "praise" you keep mentioning was nothing more than coach-speak at a press conference and lukewarm at best. To me, "quietly making progress" doesn't sound they were very confident in his ability, maybe that is high praise to you.
so we have a coach who asks for an upgrade at LT and reportedly asks for a particular player. the contract negotiator completes an agreement financially with that player and the only thing that stops the deal is trade compensation?
that can only mean the GM killed the deal, not the coach or anyone else.
to answer your question, yes it does appear the Jeff Ireland decided against adding a player the coach asked for.

So Dawn Aponte is the General Manager now? Philbin asked Dawn to trade for Albert, and Dawn negotiated? Then Ireland swoops down like the grinch at christmas and ruins the deal?

As far as the praise for Martin, the "quietly making progress" quote was AFTER the draft, and even that quote was positive. Before the draft, when there's time to do something, Philbin was cornered by reporters and repeatedly asked if he would be comfortable with Martin manning the LT spot if it came down to it. He repeatedly said yes. His words, is that Martin DEMONSTRATED an ability to play LT and RT. If a player is a bust, if a player is not your LT, and you have a short window to replace him, you don't say he has proven he can handle the position.

 

[HoneyB]

So Ireland had a clear message from the coaches that Martin would be a fine LT yet he's negotiating to make the trade for Albert anyway. What precipitated even contemplating the trade then?

And even if your theory is true Ireland's job is to put together a good roster, thats Ireland's job, his only job. If he want's to listen to Philbin or Dawn or his cat or whoever as long as it works thats fine. But if Philbin tells Ireland Martin is a good player and he turns out to be a terrible player then its still Ireland's fault, because Ireland's job is to make sure our LT is a good player. THAT IS HIS ONLY JOB.

What precipitated the trade is what precipitated all the attempts to upgrade the O line, including meeting with Winston. It's an attempt to improve the team, which is what both the coach and manager want. Whether you pull the trigger on a TRADE, depends on how great your need is at that position and how much a difference it would make. There are needs at a lot of positions.

As far as Martin turning out to be a terrible player, you're asking is that on Ireland, then? Yes. Ireland failed this team for several years and he deserved to be fired. But it's interesting that you don't place any responsibility on Philbin, who seemed to want Martin when we drafted him, and developed him, and moved him from RT to LT, and told Incognito to toughen him up.

 

[SkapePhin]

What precipitated the trade is what precipitated all the attempts to upgrade the O line, including meeting with Winston. It's an attempt to improve the team, which is what both the coach and manager want. Whether you pull the trigger on a TRADE, depends on how great your need is at that position and how much a difference it would make. There are needs at a lot of positions.

As far as Martin turning out to be a terrible player, you're asking is that on Ireland, then? Yes. Ireland failed this team for several years and he deserved to be fired. But it's interesting that you don't place any responsibility on Philbin, who seemed to want Martin when we drafted him, and developed him, and moved him from RT to LT, and told Incognito to toughen him up.

According to Roy, Philbin isn't responsible for anything apparently. He had no input whatsoever on anything, at least anything that could remotely be construed as negative.


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[roy_miami]

What precipitated the trade is what precipitated all the attempts to upgrade the O line, including meeting with Winston. It's an attempt to improve the team, which is what both the coach and manager want. Whether you pull the trigger on a TRADE, depends on how great your need is at that position and how much a difference it would make. There are needs at a lot of positions.

As far as Martin turning out to be a terrible player, you're asking is that on Ireland, then? Yes. Ireland failed this team for several years and he deserved to be fired. But it's interesting that you don't place any responsibility on Philbin, who seemed to want Martin when we drafted him, and developed him, and moved him from RT to LT, and told Incognito to toughen him up.

So a offering a high round pick and making Albert one of the highest paid players on the team is just the GM doing his due diligence and leaving no stone unturned? Your theory wasn't good when the rumor of the trade first came out, most probably believed Philbin wanted the upgrade at that time. Then it came out that Martin skipped out on training camp and attempted to kill himself and your theory looked silly at that point. Then it came out that multiple sources said Philbin was the one that wanted the Albert trade and your theory should be flying around the room like a popped balloon. And now Brandon Albert actually is a Miami Dolphin, we couldn't wait to sign him, literally couldn't wait to sign him and your theory at this point...well, I won't say what I think of your theory at this point cause it'll likely get me an infraction.

As far as whether Joe Philbin deserves some blame for Martin being on the team I don't know how much blame he deserves for that. Nobody does because nobody has any idea on the inner working relationship between the two. Philbin reportedly wanted Incognito cut after the sexual harassment and Ireland said no to that so that would suggest Philbin didn't have much say in anything personnel related. That is not the point though, the point is Philbin tried to correct the problem before it was too late, and it doesn't matter who was to blame for the problem, we still had the time and resources to fix it...during the offseason. Philbin had the foresight to see the problem coming and he tried to fix it at the appropriate time, Ireland's biggest problem is he had no foresight, he could only fix things he could see in the rear view mirror. In this instance even a mediocre GM probably gets us at least another option at LT, which probably gets us into the playoffs, which takes the heat off our Head Coach.

Philbin should not be making personnel decisions imo, whether Albert turns out to be good or terrible Hickey still deserves most of the credit/blame for that signing. Hickey can use Philbin as a resource to help him make his decisions but he should not be letting his resource make the decisions.

 

[SkapePhin]

I think you have it backwards. The job of the GM is to get guys that the coach wants on their squad, players who fit the scheme and their coaching style and buy in to their program. As such, most HCs have a lot of input in talent acquisition because they need to believe its a good fit. You have to be pretty naive to believe that Philbin had no input into any of players on the team over the past few years. Ireland may be a ****ty GM, but he isn't about to hamstring his HC with players they don't want or don't fit their scheme. That would be career suicide.

I guarantee Philbin had PLENTY of input on the players on this squad, good and bad - and especially on offense which is his background.


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[roy_miami]

. You have to be pretty naive to believe that Philbin had no input into any of players on the team over the past few years. Ireland may be a ****ty GM, but he isn't about to hamstring his HC with players they don't want or don't fit their scheme. That would be career suicide.

Lolz. How do you not see it? Its right there in bold and it came from your own mouth but your hatred for Philbin has clearly fogged your common sense.

 

[SkapePhin]

Lolz. How do you not see it? Its right there in bold and it came from your own mouth but your hatred for Philbin has clearly fogged your common sense.

So you honestly believe Ireland wanted to get fired? You think he wanted his livelihood taken away? You think he was so incompetent that he worked AGAINST the coach at every turn?

Come on, your hatred for Ireland is fogging your reasoning abilities...


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[roy_miami]

According to Roy, Philbin isn't responsible for anything apparently. He had no input whatsoever on anything, at least anything that could remotely be construed as negative.

I wish I could continue with my wait and see approach but apparently I've been pigeon holed into a "Philbin defender" by nitwittedry. Anybody that thinks having a chance at making the playoffs week 17 whether you win or lose is worse than not having a chance at all is a nitwit. There is only one SB winner in the NFL, all the other 31 teams are losers. We still had more of a chance at the SB week 17 than the Jets or the Rams did. The Bengals had more of a chance week 18 than we did. The Broncos still had more of a chance week 20 than the Bengals did.

And anybody that thinks our head coach search should be "prove you're the next Jim Harbaugh in a year or gtfo" is a nitwit. When John Schneider and Pete Carroll took over in one of Schneider's first pressers he said they would be working from a four year plan. To a reasonable person four years to turn a franchise around would seem reasonable, some might even say its ambitious. So if an established head coach and what turned out to be a very good GM is afforded four years then why does our rookie head coach with his terrible GM only get a year and a half? Does that seem reasonable?

Them: One of the best GMs
Us: One of the worst GMs

Them: Established championship caliber head coach
Us: rookie head coach

Them: The greatest young QB in the history of the NFL by some measures
Us: Raw, even for a rookie QB, who has been mediocre

Them: tough division
Us: going up against a hall of fame coach paired with hall of fame QB

Them: transforming their team from a ground and pound defensive philosophy to a ground and pound defensive philosophy
Us: transforming our team from a ground and pound defensive philosophy to a high flying offensive philosophy

And Joe Philbin is ahead of where Pete Carroll was in his first 2 years as Seahawk, even with everything I've shown above against him. ****ing nitwitedry I tell you!!!!!

Joe Philbin has some good qualities about him, I'm sorry you nitwits can't see it, that doesn't mean he will necessarily be great, or even good, but we have invested enough time and resources in him that it would be moronic to not explore him further. You can make the exact same argument for Ryan Tannehill, its unlikely he'll ever be the next Peyton Manning, or even a hall of famer but it would still be stupid to cut him at this point. And I'm not known as a Tannehill defender around here but if most were bashing him incessantly I would probably become one.