Josh Allen’s progress over the last 3 years | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Josh Allen’s progress over the last 3 years

gfish24 said:
Gotta love the Bills trolls... when they sucked for the better part of 25 years you don’t hear from them, then they get a taste of success and they become big time a$$holes... I grew up in Niagara Falls, Canada- been to Bills games, and I remember getting beer thrown at me when I was 13, because I was wearing a Marino jersey... grown men calling on a kid because I was a Dolphin fan- drunk and verbally aggressive, scared the $hit out of my family... never experienced that in any other stadium I’ve been too...very disappointed in the loss today but I am glad I am not a part of the most ignorant, disgusting fan base in the NFL
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Karma will come back on them. Hopefully they get knocked out of the playoffs
 
FINatic054 said:
Love all these Tua haters thinking homeboy Should be as good as Allen in his first season. Allen was absolute garbage last 2 seasons. Tuas numbers year one are much better then Allen’s were. It’s amazing all the haters thinking tua is not the answer and we need to draft a QB
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Bills fan, but not here to troll. First, I don't think you can look at Allen and say, "it can happen to Tua too!" because what Allen has done from a development perspective simply hasn't been done by any QB that we've seen before. He's the exception, not the norm.

Second, Suggesting Allen was garbage in his first year in order to try and justify Tua's performances isn't a good look, nor is it really accurate. The idea that Tua's numbers are "much better" than Allen's is a really tough sell to anyone who bothers to actually look those numbers up. It sounds nice, but like claims of election fraud, fall apart when you actually look at the evidence.

PASSING

Allen 2018
12 GP
320 ATT
169 COMP
52.8%
2074 YDS
10 TD

Tua 2020
10 GP
290 ATT
186 COMP
64.1%
1814 YDS
11 TD

RUSHING

Allen 2018
631 YDS
8 TD

Tua 2020
109 YDS
3 TD

Purely passing, It's really hard to say that Tua was "much better" than Allen. More accurate? Yes. But I wouldn't look at either of those guy's numbers and be very impressed. Allen was 172 yds/gm, Tua 181.

However this is 2021, and running can be a big part of a QBs game. Allen blew Tua out of the water in this regard. Allen ran for 631 yds and 8 TDs to Tua's 109 and 3 TDs. So while if you put a gun to my head, I'd agree with the claim that Tua was a better (but not MUCH better) passer their rookie years, Allen was simply a much more EFFECTIVE QB overall. He contributed to the team at a higher rate than Tua with the time they each had on the field. He was able to make up for his accuracy issues and terrible WR corps (best WR was Zay Jones 642 yds.) by making plays other ways, to some extent. So that when you look at total offensive contribution, Allen's numbers are 2705 total yards and 18 total TDs to Tua's 1,923 total yards and 14 TDs.

Now I have no idea if Tua will turn into a franchise QB or not. But the problem I think you have is that his arm isn't really that special, and he lacks the athleticism and instincts to make things happen without his arm (or keep plays alive like Allen or Murray). He strikes me as a very cerebral, pinpoint passer. He's not going to be able to do things no one else can. The best Qbs today, Rogers, Mahomes, Allen, Lamar, hell, even Murray, you can look at their skillset and their tape and see that they can make throws and do things that maybe only 1 or 2 other guys in the league can. I think you have to hope he turns into a Brees who is able to knock a fly off a horses's ass from 50 yards away with his accuracy, because what else does he really do that well?? Is there anything in Tua's game that you can say that about? He's moderately accurate (65% is fine, but not great), and that's probably the best thing you can say about him. At least when you looked at Allen rookie year you could say, well, his accuracy is bad, but he has a cannon and is one of the top 2 or 3 running Qbs in the league that can literally hurdle a linebacker (see Vikings game)
 
theK00LaidMAN said:
Purely passing, It's really hard to say that Tua was "much better" than Allen. More accurate? Yes. But I wouldn't look at either of those guy's numbers and be very impressed. Allen was 172 yds/gm, Tua 181.
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Pretty much. However Allen was admittedly garbage and was drafted to be developed.
But what do we do with Tua? What do we develop?
 
Josh Allen is super athletic and has a Satanic arm. Tua doesn’t compare to him at all.
 
They are such different qbs it’s impossible to compare. As others have said Brees is the comparison. That is our best case scenario. Slow start to his career but kept getting better. Once he had an elite team around him he took off.
 
Regulus said:
They are such different qbs it’s impossible to compare. As others have said Brees is the comparison. That is our best case scenario. Slow start to his career but kept getting better. Once he had an elite team around him he took off.
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This is what we have to hope for. He clearly isn't as good as was advertised... at least not yet.

That said, Drew Brees ended up being one of the best. Too small, but extremely smart and diagnosed quickly... (once he had some experience).

The wait for Tua to bloom might prove to be a bit painful, but we are committed now. We've got to focus on improving the line in front of him and giving him more weapons... and as badly as we need 2 new linebackers and a real edge rusher, that may have to wait.
 
theK00LaidMAN said:
Bills fan, but not here to troll. First, I don't think you can look at Allen and say, "it can happen to Tua too!" because what Allen has done from a development perspective simply hasn't been done by any QB that we've seen before. He's the exception, not the norm.

Second, Suggesting Allen was garbage in his first year in order to try and justify Tua's performances isn't a good look, nor is it really accurate. The idea that Tua's numbers are "much better" than Allen's is a really tough sell to anyone who bothers to actually look those numbers up. It sounds nice, but like claims of election fraud, fall apart when you actually look at the evidence.

PASSING

Allen 2018
12 GP
320 ATT
169 COMP
52.8%
2074 YDS
10 TD

Tua 2020
10 GP
290 ATT
186 COMP
64.1%
1814 YDS
11 TD

RUSHING

Allen 2018
631 YDS
8 TD

Tua 2020
109 YDS
3 TD

Purely passing, It's really hard to say that Tua was "much better" than Allen. More accurate? Yes. But I wouldn't look at either of those guy's numbers and be very impressed. Allen was 172 yds/gm, Tua 181.

However this is 2021, and running can be a big part of a QBs game. Allen blew Tua out of the water in this regard. Allen ran for 631 yds and 8 TDs to Tua's 109 and 3 TDs. So while if you put a gun to my head, I'd agree with the claim that Tua was a better (but not MUCH better) passer their rookie years, Allen was simply a much more EFFECTIVE QB overall. He contributed to the team at a higher rate than Tua with the time they each had on the field. He was able to make up for his accuracy issues and terrible WR corps (best WR was Zay Jones 642 yds.) by making plays other ways, to some extent. So that when you look at total offensive contribution, Allen's numbers are 2705 total yards and 18 total TDs to Tua's 1,923 total yards and 14 TDs.

Now I have no idea if Tua will turn into a franchise QB or not. But the problem I think you have is that his arm isn't really that special, and he lacks the athleticism and instincts to make things happen without his arm (or keep plays alive like Allen or Murray). He strikes me as a very cerebral, pinpoint passer. He's not going to be able to do things no one else can. The best Qbs today, Rogers, Mahomes, Allen, Lamar, hell, even Murray, you can look at their skillset and their tape and see that they can make throws and do things that maybe only 1 or 2 other guys in the league can. I think you have to hope he turns into a Brees who is able to knock a fly off a horses's *** from 50 yards away with his accuracy, because what else does he really do that well?? Is there anything in Tua's game that you can say that about? He's moderately accurate (65% is fine, but not great), and that's probably the best thing you can say about him. At least when you looked at Allen rookie year you could say, well, his accuracy is bad, but he has a cannon and is one of the top 2 or 3 running Qbs in the league that can literally hurdle a linebacker (see Vikings game)
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Can we just ban bills fans from this site??

not trolling??

Sure, but you’ll go ahead and rub salt in the wound on how we drafted a shitty qb, that won’t get any better, and how Allen is a superstar,

I guess it’s been a long time since you had success, and you want to brag, just do it in your own forum

you won, Allen is a great QB and you could be on a SB run, we get it
But remember You got lucky with Allen, his accuracy at Wyoming was terrible, and well noted in the scouting report
He has turned into a solid, if not amazing find
and has a bright future

be humble, you got your QB for the next decade or more, lucky you..

today’s game was bad enough, now I have to come here and read this ****?
 
LargoFin said:
Pretty much. However Allen was admittedly garbage and was drafted to be developed.
But what do we do with Tua? What do we develop?
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Yea, that was I think one of the things I was trying to get it as well. You could say with Allen, ok his accuracy is bad, but damn, he's a physical freak that finds a way to make plays despite that, and has a cannon for an arm. Does Tua have tools that get people excited?
 
mrbunglez said:
If he was on the Dolphins roster, there’d be people wanting his replacement as well after his rookie season.
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There were some in Buffalo, but in general we were more patient. Probably because fans trusted the coaching staff after breaking the Bills playoff drought the year before. Plus, in Allen's 2nd year he was definitely better, made the playoffs, and were an OT fg away from winning their wildcard game.
 
gfish24 said:
Can we just ban bills fans from this site??

not trolling??

Sure, but you’ll go ahead and rub salt in the wound on how we drafted a ****ty qb, that won’t get any better, and how Allen is a superstar,

I guess it’s been a long time since you had success, and you want to brag, just do it in your own forum

you won, Allen is a great QB and you could be on a SB run, we get it
But remember You got lucky with Allen, his accuracy at Wyoming was terrible, and well noted in the scouting report
He has turned into a solid, if not amazing find
and has a bright future

be humble, you got your QB for the next decade or more, lucky you..

today’s game was bad enough, now I have to come here and read this ****?
Click to expand...

There was no bragging, no rubbing salt in the wound, and no malice in my post at all. I was very clear in saying that I have no idea how Tua will turn out (none of us do). But that hanging your hat on the "but look at what Allen did" QB development route is not a good idea, because Allen is an anomaly. It was not to drag Tua through the mud. I asked legitimate questions.
 
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