Karras, Van Noy, Godcheux, how do we let them walk?

[1972forever]

Today you would. How about in week 6 or 7? I think Van Noy would have been well worth the money just to provide some stability when everything was falling apart. Like Rowe in the secondary. You can see hes slipped a bit and there are a couple far more talented safeties on this roster but hes still managed to contribute and be a net positive for this secondary.

Godchaux I can understand. He wanted to get paid and I doubt he would have taken a similar offer from the Phins.

The issue with the defense earlier in the year was the coaches and not the players. Flores and the DC had gone away from the defense the team played last year and were playing a much more conservative, bend but don’t break defense instead of the type defense they are playing now.

The defensive players had a meeting with the coaches and stated they wanted to go back to the high pressure defense they had success with last year and once they went back to that defense, the overall defense has played much better.

I do not believe Van Noy would have made any difference to the defense earlier in the season because the problem was the defense they were playing at that time. It wasn’t the players that were the problem. Also Van Noy was being paid far too much considering his limited contribution. When he returned to New England, he signed a contract which paid him less than half what he would have earned if he was on the Dolphins roster this season.

I am completely satisfied with the players the Dolphins have on defense at this time and I don’t think Van Noy or Godchax would be an upgrade for any of the players who are playing their positions with the Dolphins at this time.

 

[djphinfan]

Definitely could have used Karras

And flowers

 

[PhinFan1968]

The only thing I saw was Hollins stating some were not putting in the effort on the practice field and in the film room.

I think players themselves got a reality check.

You didn't notice the drastically different defensive scheme and play-calling around that same time? Phillips not constantly dropping back into coverage for one. Blitzes, cover 0, massive confusion for the offenses? Through the first 7 games they were playing cushion...big cushion. That went away overnight, but that was the players getting a reality check? They started the Giants game with the cushiony stuff, and the Giants were gaining good yardage, and would've gained a lot more if not for some bad drops, then the defense went to the tighter stuff and blitzing, and it made an immediate difference.

That's NOT the players...that's the coaches. The coaches know, from 7 games of failing, that they can't get it done with that other scheme. For whatever reason, even if it's that the players can't do well in that scheme, it's the coaches job to do what works.

As for Hollins' comments, that was regarding the offense, and that fits. It was a new offense under new OC(s), those take a while to get down and operating smoothly. There were reports going back to training camp of how the offensive players weren't getting it quick enough...they probably needed to put more time in the film/study side of it.

 

[circumstances]

i don't regret any of those three players no longer being here.

however, karras would have been better than Reiter and Mancz as a backup center here, when Deiter went down.

but we were looking to upgrade karras with andrews and some other guys, so it's understandable he'd rather ride the pine where he spent his career, than here.

 

[Ferretsquig]

The issue with the defense earlier in the year was the coaches and not the players. Flores and the DC had gone away from the defense the team played last year and were playing a much more conservative, bend but don’t break defense instead of the type defense they are playing now.

The defensive players had a meeting with the coaches and stated they wanted to go back to the high pressure defense they had success with last year and once they went back to that defense, the overall defense has played much better.

I do not believe Van Noy would have made any difference to the defense earlier in the season because the problem was the defense they were playing at that time. It wasn’t the players that were the problem. Also Van Noy was being paid far too much considering his limited contribution. When he returned to New England, he signed a contract which paid him less than half what he would have earned if he was on the Dolphins roster this season.

I am completely satisfied with the players the Dolphins have on defense at this time and I don’t think Van Noy or Godchax would be an upgrade for any of the players who are paying their positions with the Dolphins at this time.

Whatever the case may be there were plenty of times that I would have rather have seen Van Noy out there than Van Ginkle. And for a good portion of this season Phillips was a non-entity. We can all speculate as to why but I would still have liked to have Van Noy out there.

I'll agree he wasn't worth what he was getting paid. It was a bad contract in which they seemed to be bidding against themselves and I can't imagine anyone else was willing to go anywhere near the numbers the Phins offered. Still if we're just looking at it for this year alone I don't think it was worth paying the man 4 mil to walk away and play for the Pats. They could have kept him around another year and had far less of a hit to absorb in 2022.

 

[ANUFan]

OP sounds like they were HOFers or something. Lol..

 

[artdnj]

It’s simple, you can’t keep everyone. I like Godchaux and Van Noy but we’re playing pretty well right now. My problem is why it took half the season to get our defense to start playing. This kills our seasons Where we could be in the driver seat.

 

[1972forever]

Whatever the case may be there were plenty of times that I would have rather have seen Van Noy out there than Van Ginkle. And for a good portion of this season Phillips was a non-entity. We can all speculate as to why but I would still have liked to have Van Noy out there.

I'll agree he wasn't worth what he was getting paid. It was a bad contract in which they seemed to be bidding against themselves and I can't imagine anyone else was willing to go anywhere near the numbers the Phins offered. Still if we're just looking at it for this year alone I don't think it was worth paying the man 4 mil to walk away and play for the Pats. They could have kept him around another year and had far less of a hit to absorb in 2022.

The issue with Van Noy was that he was grossly overpaid in free agency. I blame Grier and whoever decided to sign him to that contract.
‘Also while Van Ginkel started slowly this season. If you look at Van Noy’s stats, he didn’t play well for the Patriots in the early part of the season either. In fact Van Ginkel has more tackles and assists this season than Van Noy does. Considering what it would have cost to keep Van Noy compared to the salary Van Ginkle receives from the Dolphins. Cutting Van Noy and starting Van Ginkel was definitely the right decision, IMO.

It took Phillips a few games to adjust to playing in the NFL but much of that had to do with his limited playing time and how he was being used earlier in the season. He was used in pass coverage instead of rushing the passer earlier in the season and that is something he just wasn’t used to doing. Once he became more comfortable playing in the NFL and he was allowed to rush the QB instead of having to drop in coverage, his game has completely transformed.

 

[Etuoo33]

IMO, those guy's were plugs for holes on last years team, Fat Boy Tuna used to call them "progress stoppers". It is Flores fault that his coaches are failures to this point for not getting better ones, anyone can see that. Didn't Van Noy make noise about being brought in to be a leader on D after he re-signed? I thought he bloviated about "that's not his game". Good riddance to all of them.

 

[jbyrd850]

Which players complained?

Coaches adjusted scheme and assignments no?

Andy your back after the 5 game win streak huh? I truly looking forward to all your hot takes and sunshine pumping this offseason until you disappear again after we lose a few games.

 

[Kamelion4291]

Godchaux would be a backup on this team and Karras might have been too.

What a weird thread.

 

[Ferretsquig]

The issue with Van Noy was that he was grossly overpaid in free agency. I blame Grier and whoever decided to sign him to that contract.
‘Also while Van Ginkel started slowly this season. If you look at Van Noy’s stats, he didn’t play well for the Patriots in the early part of the season either. In fact Van Ginkel has more tackles and assists this season than Van Noy does. Considering what it would have cost to keep Van Noy compared to the salary Van Ginkle receives from the Dolphins. Cutting Van Noy and starting Van Ginkel was definitely the right decision, IMO.

Can't say that I've tried to analyze it in any real depth. All I know is while Van Noy got a lot of flack last season the defense was noticeably better when he was on the field. Maybe he wouldn't have made enough of an impact to effect win/loss record but I would think that they would have happily taken his production last year for 5 mil.

To me it seems pretty clear that Flores saw the same things a lot of us fans saw in Van Ginkle last season and wrote him in as the starter that was going to give him 50 productive snaps a game and make Van Noy expendable. For half a season that looked like a pretty bad move.

 

[lurking]

Because they were stealing money

 

[lurking]

There was a meeting after we went 1-7, the defense players asked for a meeting with the DC/HC and got their complaints out, all of a sudden, the scheme changed, play-calling changed drastically, and they're back to their 2020 form.

Phillips is sure lovin' it.

Would like to see the link to this

 

[1972forever]

Can't say that I've tried to analyze it in any real depth. All I know is while Van Noy got a lot of flack last season the defense was noticeably better when he was on the field. Maybe he wouldn't have made enough of an impact to effect win/loss record but I would think that they would have happily taken his production last year for 5 mil.

To me it seems pretty clear that Flores saw the same things a lot of us fans saw in Van Ginkle last season and wrote him in as the starter that was going to give him 50 productive snaps a game and make Van Noy expendable. For half a season that looked like a pretty bad move.

It only looked like a bad move based on how Van Noy played last year. As I pointed out earlier, Van Noy didn’t play any better than Van Ginkel in the early part of this season. By cutting Van Noy, the Dolphins saved $10 million in salary cap money this year and even though Van Ginkel started the season slowly, so did Van Noy.

I think if they had the decision to make again, they would make the same decision and I would agree with that decision. I think at this point in their careers, Van Ginkel is better than Van Noy and a whole lot cheaper than if they had decided to keep Van Noy on the roster this season.