Keep Tua, He Will Be Better Than Watson!

[NBP81]

The O-Coordinators have completely mismanaged the usage of our WR's. When Gesicki only plays 64% of the plays, that's a mistake. When Waddle is used in the slot or used for short yardage passes, a mistake. So I agree he doesn't always have an ideal opportunity when it comes to his receivers but you still have to throw the ball downfield. Only 1 pass for 20+ yards out of 40 attempts just isn't good enough. You can't say out of all those passes there wasn't a single receiver open downfield at any time. I don't buy that. He needs to open it up and throw downfield more. He's been sacked 1 time in 88 attempts the past two games, he's had time. The line has been playing better, it's not all their fault and it's time to stop using them as an excuse. I love him but I'm also critical of him, he needs to play better.

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You take a look at this... Parker and Gesicki are the ONLY receivers going deep for the Fins. Parker isnt playing. If Tua throws to Gesicki while he's bracketed deep and gets intercepted, will you blame it on Tua?

 

[Average Tua]

I know I am way late at entering this discussion. With that being said, I have a very strong feeling Tua Is going to stay our starting quarterback. I just recently had a knee operation and I’m all jacked up on Percocet and a few beers but I trust my instinct lol. We have a long way to go my friends.

 

[Created Player]

I love the kid but:
He put up those stats against the two worst teams against the pass. Let's see him continue it next week at Buffalo.
He doesn't throw the ball downfield, only averaged 7 yds per attempt yesterday, threw 1 pass over 20 yards, and zero attempts over 40 yards. You won't win many shootouts dinking and dunking, you're going to have to start looking downfield.
Watson may have made stupid personal decisions but as far as his football acumen goes, he's highly intelligent.



Sound like a dummy to you?

I love your enthusiasm but you should temper it a bit before you claim he'll be better than Watson. Watson is faster, more elusive, reads the Defenses quicker, and has a stronger arm. I'm not sticking up for Watson I'm just stating the obvious facts, I love Tua but in no way do I even put him in the same category as Watson yet, let alone claim he's better at this point or is going to pass him. How bout he passes Herbert and Burrow first before we start talking Watson. He's got a long way to go and a lot to prove to reach that point.
Given that, I'm rooting for my QB and hope he grows and succeeds...

Sometimes I feel like some of the posters on this forum never watched Watson play. Maybe they were too busy watching Alabama highlights when Tua was the QB there. Much respect to OP for sticking with the team his entire lifetime but at this point its ludicrous to believe Tua is going to pass Watson easily. Like wtf man! Sometimes I feel like I'm reading comments from an alternate universe when I'm on here FR!

 

[13marino13]

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You take a look at this... Parker and Gesicki are the ONLY receivers going deep for the Fins. Parker isnt playing. If Tua throws to Gesicki while he's bracketed deep and gets intercepted, will you blame it on Tua?

Depending on the play and what the coverage actually looks like, Gesicki has shown the ability to highpoint the ball so I could see in many circumstances throwing that ball but it's a generalized hypothetical. If he underthrows it and it's picked, then yes I'd blame it on Tua. If it hits Mike's hands and bounces off and is intercepted, I'd most likely blame Mike. Can't say for sure until the play occurred.
Now the Int he threw this week in the red zone was his fault, he had a high safety with outside responsibility, and a corner bracketing Smythe, he tried to squeeze the throw in there and he doesn't have enough arm to complete that pass, very few do. He has to know his limitations. That INT I put on him.
They need to send Waddle deep, he's averaging just over 5 yards per attempt, 1/3 of what Chase is, that's a crime as far as I'm concerned...

 

[13marino13]

I know I am way late at entering this discussion. With that being said, I have a very strong feeling Tua Is going to stay our starting quarterback. I just recently had a knee operation and I’m all jacked up on Percocet and a few beers but I trust my instinct lol. We have a long way to go my friends.

What color is my shirt?

 

[13marino13]

Sometimes I feel like some of the posters on this forum never watched Watson play. Maybe they were too busy watching Alabama highlights when Tua was the QB there. Much respect to OP for sticking with the team his entire lifetime but at this point its ludicrous to believe Tua is going to pass Watson easily. Like wtf man! Sometimes I feel like I'm reading comments from an alternate universe when I'm on here FR!

It's great to be an enthusiastic optimist, just don't let it blind you from reality...

 

[NBP81]

Depending on the play and what the coverage actually looks like, Gesicki has shown the ability to highpoint the ball so I could see in many circumstances throwing that ball but it's a generalized hypothetical. If he underthrows it and it's picked, then yes I'd blame it on Tua. If it hits Mike's hands and bounces off and is intercepted, I'd most likely blame Mike. Can't say for sure until the play occurred.
Now the Int he threw this week in the red zone was his fault, he had a high safety with outside responsibility, and a corner bracketing Smythe, he tried to squeeze the throw in there and he doesn't have enough arm to complete that pass, very few do. He has to know his limitations. That INT I put on him.
They need to send Waddle deep, he's averaging just over 5 yards per attempt, 1/3 of what Chase is, that's a crime as far as I'm concerned...

Absolutely, Waddle is 8th to last in the NFL in targeted air yards... Thats flat out un acceptable... I mean i was backing the Fins 100% for picking a WR at #6, but if thats how you intended to use him, I mean that straight up doesnt make sense.

TBH I thought the 1st INT was less of a mistake than the 2nd one... That route was messed up by Smythe. The mistake here from Tua, IMO, is if you're going to make that pass, make sure its to someone good. This was a perfect read, perfect pass to a bad player. You dont throw that pass to Smythe, I agree. But Im also not going to roast Tua for it... He took Marino's advice, pick a guy and let it fly... the throw was A-1, the receiving end gave up on the play, a more experienced Tua wont target that green of a player for such a hard completion... IMO

 

[13marino13]

Absolutely, Waddle is 8th to last in the NFL in targeted air yards... Thats flat out un acceptable... I mean i was backing the Fins 100% for picking a WR at #6, but if thats how you intended to use him, I mean that straight up doesnt make sense.

TBH I thought the 1st INT was less of a mistake than the 2nd one... That route was messed up by Smythe. The mistake here from Tua, IMO, is if you're going to make that pass, make sure its to someone good. This was a perfect read, perfect pass to a bad player. You dont throw that pass to Smythe, I agree. But Im also not going to roast Tua for it... He took Marino's advice, pick a guy and let it fly... the throw was A-1, the receiving end gave up on the play, a more experienced Tua wont target that green of a player for such a hard completion... IMO

I agree, someone with hands there and we may have had a different outcome, not likely but we def would have had a better chance. He's young and learning, he'll learn the throws he can make and the ones he can't. At Alabama that would have most likely been a touchdown, but you won't get it that easily in the pros. He's still in his adjustment period and learning his way around the field.
I loved the Waddle pick, I just wish they would make better use of him. He is in the same type of position as Tua. At Alabama, they were basically playing on a pro team against high schoolers, everything came easily. Now that they're with the big boys, things have taken a dramatic turn for them and they just need time to adjust, everything comes a little harder for them now, they were spoiled quite frankly. Given that, they are wasting Waddle, they need to get him the ball in space and you'll see him break some long ones, those 5-yard slants for a TD will be few and far between in the pros, the players are just too quick and more disciplined at this level...

 

[Kev7]

 

[NBP81]

I agree, someone with hands there and we may have had a different outcome, not likely but we def would have had a better chance. He's young and learning, he'll learn the throws he can make and the ones he can't. At Alabama that would have most likely been a touchdown, but you won't get it that easily in the pros. He's still in his adjustment period and learning his way around the field.
I loved the Waddle pick, I just wish they would make better use of him. He is in the same type of position as Tua. At Alabama, they were basically playing on a pro team against high schoolers, everything came easily. Now that they're with the big boys, things have taken a dramatic turn for them and they just need time to adjust, everything comes a little harder for them now, they were spoiled quite frankly. Given that, they are wasting Waddle, they need to get him the ball in space and you'll see him break some long ones, those 5-yard slants for a TD will be few and far between in the pros, the players are just too quick and more disciplined at this level...

I think there's some contradiction in your thought process though... Waddle cant control the way he's being used... the fact he played in Alabama with better players doesnt really matter here... Its not like he has a hard time catching passes, making defenders miss and gaining yards or even adjusting to the pros... His only problem is he has a **** coaching stafff that wont send him further than 10 yards deep on most plays... This has nothing to do With Waddle.

 

[artdnj]

So..... you were born in 72. Too bad you were not around to see the the Phins during their undefeated season and super bowl in the 70s. There was a team who was run efficiently from top to bottom. And yes, I agree with you regarding what you said. But ive lost faith, as long as Ross remains the owner I dont think we will achieve greatness again. Flores and Grier have not done Tua any favors.

I was around and agree with you

 

[13marino13]

I think there's some contradiction in your thought process though... Waddle cant control the way he's being used... the fact he played in Alabama with better players doesnt really matter here... Its not like he has a hard time catching passes, making defenders miss and gaining yards or even adjusting to the pros... His only problem is he has a **** coaching stafff that wont send him further than 10 yards deep on most plays... This has nothing to do With Waddle.

Sorry if my post wasn't clear, I'm agreeing with you. NONE of this is on him it's how he's being used. I was looking at it from the perspective of the O coaches. I think our inexperienced coaches looked at the tape of him in Bama and figured they'd hit him with the 5-yard slants and he'd take it to the house all day long. It was a mistake on their part. They are not giving him the opportunity to shine and shame on them for being so closed-minded on his usage. They had to know they have to scheme to get him more separation, it wouldn't come as naturally as it did at Bama.

 

[djphinfan]

I thought Tua would handle this adversity brilliantly and he has, playing at a high level despite the worst line in football creating chaos in front of him and despite the sabotaging coaches that want him to fail.

Imagine trying to be a young Qb behind that oline with a rookie wide receiver and a big wide receiver in Gesicki.

Kid is keeping it together playing well despite very poor surrounding context and variables

 

[13marino13]

Hit him in space and he's gone...

 

[AdamD13]

The O-Coordinators have completely mismanaged the usage of our WR's. When Gesicki only plays 64% of the plays, that's a mistake. When Waddle is used in the slot or used for short yardage passes, a mistake. So I agree he doesn't always have an ideal opportunity when it comes to his receivers but you still have to throw the ball downfield. Only 1 pass for 20+ yards out of 40 attempts just isn't good enough. You can't say out of all those passes there wasn't a single receiver open downfield at any time. I don't buy that. He needs to open it up and throw downfield more. He's been sacked 1 time in 88 attempts the past two games, he's had time. The line has been playing better, it's not all their fault and it's time to stop using them as an excuse. I love him but I'm also critical of him, he needs to play better.

I am all for chunk yards and spreading out the defense, but I am happy with what Tua is doing over the past two games.

13th start and didn't get much action against Buffalo before leaving so essentially those were his 11th and 12th games...completed 74.4% of passes, 620 yards, 6 TD, 51 yards rushing on 7 carries, Dolphins have converted 16 of 28 3rd downs (57.1%). For the season, only Buffalo at 50% and KC at 56.96% are above 47.50% for the season. Obviously turnovers were costly, but Tua bounced back to lead TD drives on all 3 the following possession. Brought team from behind 13 points in the 4th quarter.

We want the same thing. I am willing to be patient for now and believe as Tua gets more experience and playmakers he can trust down the field deep shots will come.

I also think credit being given to the OL improvement has more to do with Tua's ability than the OL making significant improvement in play. Those short passes are one of the reasons why Tua has only been sacked 1 time in the past two games. His ribs still aren't fully healed and it would be foolish for him to be holding on to the ball waiting for deep routes to maybe open up, or maybe not and take unnecessary hits. For being inexperienced Tua has excellent pocket presence and movement, a good sense of when to take off running, and quick release help the OL to look better than they are. I haven't seen the updated analysis from PFF following the Falcons game, but here it is heading into the Falcons game.

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28. MIAMI DOLPHINS​

Tua Tagovailoa‘s return to the starting lineup provides a little spark to this unit that it didn’t have with Jacoby Brissett. Tagovailoa allows them to better hide a disastrous offensive line with movement and RPOs. The team also clearly has a more coherent plan for receiver Jaylen Waddle when Tagovailoa is on the field. The average depth of target thrown Waddle’s way when Brissett was at quarterback was just 3.8 yards downfield. With Tua, it jumps to 9.1 yards and the team actually taps into his potential as a deep threat. This offense's potential is limited due to a shaky offensive line, but Tagovailoa and his growth is the great unknown variable.

And the second interception Tua had against the Flacons doesn't go down as a sack, but Jackson's blocking was pathetic which led to the conditions in which Tua threw the pick.

We'll see this week against Buffalo whether the OL has matured since week 2. If the game gets out of hand, I am all for Flores putting in Bissett to protect the kid from taking unnecessary hits.