Luck vs. Weeden in the Fiesta Bowl

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Brandon Weeden did outplay RGIII in that game, it wasn't even close, statistics didn't tell the real story. This running argument about Weeden's age and his competetvie advantage as per the younger college players- this isn't high school, these are grown men. Look at the underclassmen coming out- the AJ Green's, Julio Jones' of the draft world, they're ready to go. Look at a guy from down here who played one year at Kentucky and is now making some noise for the Detroit Pistons, Brandon Knight. Different sport, but he's mature enough at 19 to contribute. Danny Kanell could barely bench 135 at FSU his freshman year- send him to the NFL then and he'd get killed. But he got a whole lot stronger in the next 3 years, was physically mature by the time he went to the Giants.

These NFL prospects are grown men, most of them 21-23 years old. I think that there is some small merit to this idea of a physical competetive advantage as prer Weeden, but it is way, way overblown. Look at the size of these NFL prospects coming out- these are full grown men, or very close to full grown men- look at the linemen, these dudes are huge. Weeden's major advantage in college football is not age and maturity, it's that he is so damned good that he can soundly beat and outplay most of his competitors.

In terms of Weeden/Luck or any other comparison, I really don't care all that much who won the game- Stanford's kicker screwed the pooch, I really couldn't give a sh**. But it does say something that Weeden played well against these other teams with top QBs and led OSU to victory- there is a subtle difference there. And at the end of the day it's about how the QB played- Blackmon had a monster game and monster season, but it's hardly fair for some to claim that Blackmon has carried Weeden. Weeden should be judged on his own merits, that isn't really all that difficult to do. And as big a backer of Weeden as I have been, if I had to pick out the superior player in the game, aside from Blackmon, I'd probably go with Luck this time around. But I still love Weeden, and I will say that I found your "not half bad" comment regarding him to be conspicuously dismissive. You do have it right on DeCastro, though- people can b**** and moan all they want to about him being an OL, he's a top notch talent and would be a tremendous addition to the Dolphins. DeCastro/Weeden/Fleener would be just fine with me.

I'm not going to argue with you about Weeden. It's pointless. He's a decent quarterback prospect.

But there's a difference in the level of maturity when you're 28 years old as opposed to when you're 21, 22 or 23. There's a difference in your level of confidence in yourself when you're in your physical and mental prime. Julio Jones and A.J. Green were ready to play in the NFL when they came out of high school, but that's rare.

They'll also be better when they're 28 years old than they are now.

Matt Barkley will be better physically and mentally when he's 28 than he is now. As will Andrew Luck.

I don't think Weeden would be as good as Luck or Barkely at playing the quarterback position in college if he was 21 or 22 like they are. In fact, he wasn't.

 

[hoops]

I'm not going to argue with you about Weeden. It's pointless. He's a decent quarterback prospect.

But there's a difference in the level of maturity when you're 28 years old as opposed to when you're 21, 22 or 23. There's a difference in your level of confidence in yourself when you're in your physical and mental prime. Julio Jones and A.J. Green were ready to play in the NFL when they came out of high school, but that's rare.

They'll also be better when they're 28 years old than they are now.

Matt Barkley will be better physically and mentally when he's 28 than he is now. As will Andrew Luck.

I don't think Weeden would be as good as Luck or Barkely at playing the quarterback position in college if he was 21 or 22 like they are. In fact, he wasn't.

thank you slimm...these guys act like this age differential thing is no big deal...it is...

 

[jim1]

I'm not going to argue with you about Weeden. It's pointless. He's a decent quarterback prospect.

But there's a difference in the level of maturity when you're 28 years old as opposed to when you're 21, 22 or 23. There's a difference in your level of confidence in yourself when you're in your physical and mental prime. Julio Jones and A.J. Green were ready to play in the NFL when they came out of high school, but that's rare.

They'll also be better when they're 28 years old than they are now.

Matt Barkley will be better physically and mentally when he's 28 than he is now. As will Andrew Luck.

I don't think Weeden would be as good as Luck or Barkely at playing the quarterback position in college if he was 21 or 22 like they are. In fact, he wasn't.

I'm just stating an opinion, especially given the number of ginormous, 300 pound plus linemen coming out, the Phil Taylors of the world as well as the Greens/Jones etc. Plenty of big guys out there who are physically NFL ready at 20-21. These are physically mature men- as I said, I see merit to the argument, I just think that it is overplayed. Then again, given your involvement with football I have no doubt that you have a solid basis for your opinions on the matter.

As to Weeden- how you can refer to him as merely a "decent quarterback prospect" is beyond me. The age issue can be argued back and forth, but Weeden has been a spectacularly good college QB this year, how anyone could deny his talent this year is beyond me. That's not far in my book form saying that Andrew Luck has been a "decent quarterback prospect" this year- just doesn't make any sense.

Not sure where you're going with that last sentence- Weeden was balls dep in baseball at that age, as far as I can tell there is no basis for comparison as per Luck or Barkley.

 

[ckparrothead]

The difference in the game was the field goal kicker for Stanford. Although the botched handoffby Luck didn't help... but it's not what lost Stanford the game.

Furthermore, Weeden hasn't outplayed all 5 of those QB's. The only one he clearly outplayed was Landry Jones, who put up an absolute stinker. Jordan Jefferson would've outplayed Landry Jones in that game. I think Weeden outplayed RG3, but it wasn't in some lopsided landslide.

Weeden didn't 'outplay' Nick Foles. That game was a dead heat between those two QB's.... Oklahoma St. just has a better team. Weeden definitely didn't 'outplay' Luck last night.



The point is, 'outplaying' the other quarterback in a college game has nothing to do with outplaying him in the NFL. Otherwise, John Beck would've been able to outplay Matt Ryan in the NFL. JPW would've been able to outplay Matthew Stafford in the NFL.

Hell he's almost 30 years old CK, he should be outplaying these young kids anyway.

This is not logic I agree with, when it comes to the quarterback position.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

hey slimm...did you watch the iowa st okla st game by any chance??? what was your read on how weeden played???

I watch it all the time. Iowa St.'s defense is the closest thing to an SEC defense that Oklahoma St. has seen in terms of scheme and coaching, the Cyclones just don't have SEC talent.... and it's no coincidence that Iowa St. picked him off 3 times and held Oklahoma St.'s offense to 17 points in regulation.

Wally Burnham is an old former SEC defensive coordinator, who's from right down the road in Pell City, Alabama. They got pressure on Weeden up the middle and he struggled dealing with it. He telegraphed his throws outside the numbers that led to interceptions.

Iowa St. didn't have the horses to stick with Oklahoma St. in double overtimes.... but I know he'd hate to have to deal with that on a weekly basis against teams that actually have the studs defensively to take him out.

 

[ckparrothead]

I'm not going to argue with you about Weeden. It's pointless. He's a decent quarterback prospect.

But there's a difference in the level of maturity when you're 28 years old as opposed to when you're 21, 22 or 23. There's a difference in your level of confidence in yourself when you're in your physical and mental prime. Julio Jones and A.J. Green were ready to play in the NFL when they came out of high school, but that's rare.

They'll also be better when they're 28 years old than they are now.

Matt Barkley will be better physically and mentally when he's 28 than he is now. As will Andrew Luck.

I don't think Weeden would be as good as Luck or Barkely at playing the quarterback position in college if he was 21 or 22 like they are. In fact, he wasn't.

I should hope not. He had been playing baseball for 4 years and hadn't done anything more with a football than play a little pitch and catch with friend.

 

[hoops]

I watch it all the time. Iowa St.'s defense is the closest thing to an SEC defense that Oklahoma St. has seen in terms of scheme and coaching, the Cyclones just don't have SEC talent.... and it's no coincidence that Iowa St. picked him off 3 times and held Oklahoma St.'s offense to 17 points in regulation.

Wally Burnham is an old former SEC defensive coordinator, who's from right down the road in Pell City, Alabama. They got pressure on Weeden up the middle and he struggled dealing with it. He telegraphed his throws outside the numbers that led to interceptions.

Iowa St. didn't have the horses to stick with Oklahoma St. in double overtimes.... but I know he'd hate to have to deal with that on a weekly basis against teams that actually have the studs defensively to take him out.

so what was your read on how he played in that game overall??? i'm familiar with the pressure up the middle issues and forcing some throws but overall what was your thoughts??? as i recall the top cb for them #23 johnson i want to say his name is did a number on blackmon and weeden struggled to adjust

 

[Show Me Your TDs]

Hell he's almost 30 years old CK, he should be outplaying these young kids anyway.

Exactly.

 

[jim1]

so what was your read on how he played in that game overall??? i'm familiar with the pressure up the middle issues and forcing some throws but overall what was your thoughts??? as i recall the top cb for them #23 johnson i want to say his name is did a number on blackmon and weeden struggled to adjust

No doubt as to why you're repetitively fishing for corroborating opinions on this game in particular, as you completely blew your analysis of Weeden in the Iowa St. game in a previous thread and got faced in the process. So keep fishing, and as you would undoubtedly say, "lmao". What a draft gomer.

 

[hoops]

No doubt as to why you're repetitively fishing for corroborating opinions on this game in particular, as you completely blew your analysis of Weeden in the Iowa St. game in a previous thread and got faced in the process. So keep fishing, and as you would undoubtedly say, "lmao". What a draft gomer.

i thought you were gonna ignore me...i didn't blow anything...just cause ck says one thing about how he looked in the game doesn't make it gospel...we disagree on here all the time...yesterdays game yet another example it seems...difference is i respect his opinion and analysis...to be honest outside of this whole brandon weeden thing which we disagree on primarily because of age i don't see where you and i have had any issues...your not a matt barkley fan don't like his arm i do and think with time his arm will only get stronger in the pros...you don't think the age thing should matter much...i'm sayin it definitely should and will...slimm put out today what i've been sayin all along regarding that age issue...i guess since i don't buy into what your selling there you've taken it personal and taken it to another level...

if you don't have tough enough skin to take a little heat when a guy you've championed puts together 3 consecutive crap burger performances than don't play ball in this court...your the one that used tebow as one of your 5 examples of draft hits...i'm not the only draft guru on here who said that tebow will never make it as an every down qb...both the 2 others here did also...so save some of your venom for them...and christian ponder who started out solid and kinda nose dived at the end of the season you want to rub that in my face cause i didn't have a top 15 grade on him even though i did have a late round 1 early round 2 grade so i don't get that either and theres rumors now that some vikings people are wondering if joe webb is a better alternative going forward...sorry but its gonna take more than a 5 person list to impress me especially when half the list is still unproven at this level...

i'm not out here putting in your face how i had cam newton the #1 overall prospect in this last draft and a guy who could redefine the game with his legs and arms now am i...but thats sure lookin spot on...or how dez bryant was a top 5 bpa the year prior despite everyones concerns...like i said i've built enough of a reputation around here with my analysis i don't need your approval or praise...

i was interested in slimms take of how weeden played in the iowa st game...cause frankly i didn't grade it as a stellar performance or give it glowing reviews...you don't like it tough...not gonna change the way i operate...if you and i aren't on speaking terms i'm ok with that...just know that i didn't and wouldn't have laid the cards on the table til you took it to another level...

 

[jim1]

i thought you were gonna ignore me...i didn't blow anything...just cause ck says one thing about how he looked in the game doesn't make it gospel...we disagree on here all the time...yesterdays game yet another example it seems...difference is i respect his opinion and analysis...to be honest outside of this whole brandon weeden thing which we disagree on primarily because of age i don't see where you and i have had any issues...your not a matt barkley fan don't like his arm i do and think with time his arm will only get stronger in the pros...you don't think the age thing should matter much...i'm sayin it definitely should and will...slimm put out today what i've been sayin all along regarding that age issue...i guess since i don't buy into what your selling there you've taken it personal and taken it to another level...

if you don't have tough enough skin to take a little heat when a guy you've championed puts together 3 consecutive crap burger performances than don't play ball in this court...your the one that used tebow as one of your 5 examples of draft hits...i'm not the only draft guru on here who said that tebow will never make it as an every down qb...both the 2 others here did also...so save some of your venom for them...and christian ponder who started out solid and kinda nose dived at the end of the season you want to rub that in my face cause i didn't have a top 15 grade on him even though i did have a late round 1 early round 2 grade so i don't get that either and theres rumors now that some vikings people are wondering if joe webb is a better alternative going forward...sorry but its gonna take more than a 5 person list to impress me especially when half the list is still unproven at this level...

i'm not out here putting in your face how i had cam newton the #1 overall prospect in this last draft and a guy who could redefine the game with his legs and arms now am i...but thats sure lookin spot on...or how dez bryant was a top 5 bpa the year prior despite everyones concerns...like i said i've built enough of a reputation around here with my analysis i don't need your approval or praise...

i was interested in slimms take of how weeden played in the iowa st game...cause frankly i didn't grade it as a stellar performance or give it glowing reviews...you don't like it tough...not gonna change the way i operate...if you and i aren't on speaking terms i'm ok with that...just know that i didn't and wouldn't have laid the cards on the table til you took it to another level...

Laid the cards on the table? Uh, sure, whatever that means. I'm scanning your drivel, because it isn't worth reading en masse- back to Tebow, I see. Amazing how you jump on that after he had a bad game, after having your thing tucked between your legs on the subject for the last couple of months. I never brought up Tebow- purposefully- when he was turning the Broncos around from basement dwellers to division champs because he was unbelieveably controversial- I let that sleeping dog lay. Another poster brought it up, as per thephins.com iirc. Sure enough, in your special classless form, Tebow had a bad game and there you are, weenie removed from thighs, ready to go. Pathetic.

Your Ponder comments aren't even worth responding to. You are truly, clearly, even obnoxiously- average. Take it on down the road. The value of your freight isn't worth the cost of the haul, send your truck full of crap somewhere else.

 

[hoops]

alright...i think we've hijacked this thread enough...i won't be expecting any xmas card from jim 1 this year and you won't be getting a whitmans sampler from me...

lets end it

 

[datruth55]

alright...i think we've hijacked this thread enough...i won't be expecting any xmas card from jim 1 this year and you won't be getting a whitmans sampler from me...

lets end it

Way to be the bigger man hoops.

 

[ckparrothead]

alright...i think we've hijacked this thread enough...i won't be expecting any xmas card from jim 1 this year and you won't be getting a whitmans sampler from me...

lets end it

LOL. Nice. That one had me laughing pretty hard.

 

[PJack]

Love the Whitman's Sampler. Unlike the draft...you know exactly what you're gonna get...