Luck vs. Weeden in the Fiesta Bowl | Page 17 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Luck vs. Weeden in the Fiesta Bowl

Wow fellas can we all be at least civilized here? We all have our own formed opinion and that's great, there's no need to get angry about it, what is this the romper room?
 
mrbunglez said:
Wow fellas can we all be at least civilized here? We all have our own formed opinion and that's great, there's no need to get angry about it, what is this the romper room?
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i'm done...he's a joke...on to other things
 
jim1 said:
CK gave a great analysis of what was really going on, and for some reason you feel the need to dump on it. It was a much better effort than your pedestrian offerings that it's a team game and Blackmon made Weeden look good.

Weeden played a solid game- you're right in that Blackmon helped him a lot, but there's nothing wrong with giving a QB who won a bowl game and threw for 400 yards a little credit. Both QBs played very well, I'm surprised at some of the criticism, it goes a bit far imo.
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I never said Weeden didn't have a great game. In fact, I said I "WASN'T SURE" if Weeden had the better game. Since both QB's played great and I was unsure. How is that dumping?

My comment to his post was the FACT that he used QB head-to-head analysis in order to further his opinion of Weeden. And IN MY OPINION, using head-to-head stats or game outcomes for QB play is pretty damn foolish and doesn't prove anything...one way or the other.

The fact that nearly all QB's look great in that OSU offense AND the fact that Weeden has the most dominate WR in the college ranks doesn't help him move up to the 1st or 2nd round.
 
Wasn't trying to give you a hard time or anything CK, was just curious, nominated you for poster of the year last year. I do hope your wrong about RG3 though if we end up with him, unlikely as that may be.

About Weeden, do you think it'll take 3-4 years to develop like most QB's? Kinda off-putting to potentially have a 33 year old who's just coming into his prime as an NFL quarterback when most guys do that at like 26 or 27. I ask because I have a sinking feeling that we're not coming out of the first round with a QB. Would you prefer Tannehill or Weeden in round 2 if available?

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Didn't read the whole thread so I don't know if this was already discussed.
 
rob19 said:
Wasn't trying to give you a hard time or anything CK, was just curious, nominated you for poster of the year last year. I do hope your wrong about RG3 though if we end up with him, unlikely as that may be.

About Weeden, do you think it'll take 3-4 years to develop like most QB's? Kinda off-putting to potentially have a 33 year old who's just coming into his prime as an NFL quarterback when most guys do that at like 26 or 27. I ask because I have a sinking feeling that we're not coming out of the first round with a QB. Would you prefer Tannehill or Weeden in round 2 if available?

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Didn't read the whole thread so I don't know if this was already discussed.
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I didn't think you were giving me a hard time. I was just explaining my history as far as my opinion on Newton. I was probably tepid until around December when I delved in more heavily. Then I was a hard core Newton fan.

As for the other things you bring up, a couple of points. One, I don't think it really takes QBs 3-4 years nowadays. I think this is a different NFL than it used to be. My studies show that passer ratings of guys that start as rookies and second year players ends up approximating their career passer ratings. In other words, by their 2nd season, these guys are already passing about as efficiently as they will in their career. About half of them, interestingly enough, already pass efficiently in their rookie year. Quarterback learning curves have shortened CONSIDERABLY in the modern era.

Does that mean QBs don't keep getting better after year two? No, in fact the best QBs continue getting better as far into their careers as their 10th season. That's the nature of the position. It's a mental position, so you keep getting better until your body lets you down. But the bulk of the learning curve, I would say, happens in that first year and already by your 2nd year, MAYBE your 3rd year, you should probably have reached the point where people are impressed with you, and if you haven't...something's wrong.

As for Brandon Weeden, will he have a long learning curve, a short one, or a normal one? I want to say he'll have a short one. Physical talent profiles tend to trump early in NFL careers. In other words, guys like Ben Roethlisberger and Cam Newton that are tall, big and strong and can throw a football through a brick wall, they're the ones that have increased chances of not just being average, but being genuinely GOOD even as rookies. Dan Marino similar...god-given talent. Guys that are more mental in their profile? They have to sharpen their tools a little longer. So given that and given Brandon Weeden's unusual maturity, I think the chances are good he'll have a pretty good rookie year (if allowed to start). Not saying he'll have a Cam Newton or Roethlisberger rookie year, but a Joe Flacco or Matt Ryan rookie year? Definitely within reach.

Prefer Weeden to Tannehill.
 
Blackmon tainted this game by showing us how ridiculous a player he is, sort of a "Screw these guys, I should be #1 pick" performance. Weeden played well, but I thought Luck played a quite a bit better due in part to the effort and thought it seemed he put into pushing Stanford forward. I did see him do a lot of things that really were unnecessary and didn't fool anymore, but scouts will eat it up all the same. Weeden doesn't seem that bad, but still the age thing is a bit disconcerting for a team who is looking for a long term option at QB. If he is the pick we look for in "2nd" round, it will be awkward telling having him take over the ship from Moore, who is 2 years younger.
 
ckparrothead said:
That was the atmosphere and environment we were operating in when we wrote our piece on Newton. And we weren't just buyers of Cam Newton. We were one of the very few that can legitimately claim that the season he had in 2011 doesn't surprise us, based on our evaluation of his talent. And that's saying something.
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I remember your piece about Newton and came away thinking later that if Andrew Luck would have came out last year, The Panthers would have taken him. Leaving Newton to a Dolphins trade up.(as far fetched as that sounds for our regime....lol)
 
If Blackmon "tainted" the game by being so good then I guess the Stanford OL and Stepfan Taylor also "tainted" Luck's performance by being so good at running the ball down Oklahoma State's throat. I guess Coby Fleener and Levine Toilolo "tainted" Luck's performance by being high round quality NFL prospects.
 
JCPHIN_PHAN said:
I remember your piece about Newton and came away thinking later that if Andrew Luck would have came out last year, The Panthers would have taken him. Leaving Newton to a Dolphins trade up.(as far fetched as that sounds for our regime....lol)
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Until approximately one week before the release of our article, the reason we even decided to do a Newton piece was because it was a hot topic of conversation whether the Dolphins should take Newton at #15.
 
Both quarterbacks played extremely well, although Luck had to do more to bail his team out in certain situations... especially 3rd and longs. Stanford insisted on pounding the running game come hell or high water, and it caused Luck to have to play from behind the 8-ball in down and distance situations. He had to do it mostly without his best weapon Coby Fleener.

The best individual performance on the field was turned in by Justin Blackmon. The kid is simply an incredible talent.

David DeCastro is a phenom at the guard position. He'll base block you into oblivion, and in an instant look like Randall McDaniel in space pulling and obliterating moving targets. It's not just talk with this kid. He has Hall of Fame potential as an interior lineman.

I saw 3 of the top 6 overall talents in the draft last night with Luck, DeCastro and Blackmon. Weeden and Markelle Martin ain't half bad either.


The little freshman kicker for Stanford on the other hand... there's better days ahead for you young man..... if they let you keep your scholarship.
 
I have a sneaking suspicion that we will find some way to **** this draft up too.
 
ckparrothead said:
I think you might be underestimating the importance of the turnovers. Brandon Weeden did throw an interception right away, but so did Andrew Luck, and so they were even on that front. However, with his end zone at his back, Andrew Luck botched a hand-off to the fullback, because he was nervous and sloppy and put the ball on the fullback's collar bone instead of in his gut...and gave Oklahoma State the ball right on the goal line, and that ended up being the difference in the game. Literally.

Weeden accounted for four touchdowns on the day and one turnover, Luck accounted for two touchdowns and two turnovers. If that's not one guy outperforming the other, then I guess there's never really any point in saying any guy ever outperformed any other guy on any given day.
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i'm not buying that nervous stuff...not when the kid converted 3rd and longs all over the place late in the game and in the 4th quarter...and i'm not buying any weeden outplayed luck stuff either...

but to each his own i guess
 
hooshoops said:
i'm not buying that nervous stuff...not when the kid converted 3rd and longs all over the place late in the game and in the 4th quarter...and i'm not buying any weeden outplayed luck stuff either...

but to each his own i guess
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Yeah..well CK didn't write that for the likes of people like YOU!

Now go to your room and repeat, "CK knows no wrong" 1000x's and flog yourself into submission!

Maybe that will teach you to disagree with the almighty CK!!!!

:chuckle:
 
TedSlimmJr said:
Both quarterbacks played extremely well, although Luck had to do more to bail his team out in certain situations... especially 3rd and longs. Stanford insisted on pounding the running game come hell or high water, and it caused Luck to have to play from behind the 8-ball in down and distance situations. He had to do it mostly without his best weapon Coby Fleener.

The best individual performance on the field was turned in by Justin Blackmon. The kid is simply an incredible talent.

David DeCastro is a phenom at the guard position. He'll base block you into oblivion, and in an instant look like Randall McDaniel in space pulling and obliterating moving targets. It's not just talk with this kid. He has Hall of Fame potential as an interior lineman.

I saw 3 of the top 6 overall talents in the draft last night with Luck, DeCastro and Blackmon. Weeden and Markelle Martin ain't half bad either.


The little freshman kicker for Stanford on the other hand... there's better days ahead for you young man..... if they let you keep your scholarship.
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But head-to-head Weeden outplayed Luck... :chuckle:
 
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