Madden 2004

[JPhinfan86]

You're still off. When in the history of the NFL has any player run like anything you have ever seen in Madden, your insistance about this is making me think you don't watch football. I seriously don't understand where u are coming from with that, the movements in this game are unrealistic, period. NO ONE in the NFL I've watched for years has ever run like a robot.

Like I said before, the Madden version of Ricky has absolutely nothing even close to real life about it, IT DOESN'T look like Ricky. In 2K3 you see the stubble on Ricky's face, the dreads on the back of his jersey and anything else that is Ricky.

You can continue to play this terrible excuse for a football simulation, thats your problem, its pretty bad when a game can't even get something as simple as the replay system right. For now I will continue to listen to my Madden loving friends complain about the let-down Madden 2004 is, while I enjoy a true grid-iron classic that makes me proud of the NFL. Just play ESPN NFL Football once and then tell me that its worse. As I have said before, I don't care what you play...its your loss.

I'm really not to big on arguing with fellow finfans about a video-game, but this is the way it is. If Madden makes you happy, great!, I was simply stating my opinion. The only reason I posted was to see if I could get a good reason as to why people play it, I still don't (and probably never will) understand. 2K4 RULES!



Then: :argue: Now: :drinkers:

 

[Barbarian]

Originally posted by JPhinfan86
You're still off. When in the history of the NFL has any player run like anything you have ever seen in Madden, your insistance about this is making me think you don't watch football. I seriously don't understand where u are coming from with that, the movements in this game are unrealistic, period. NO ONE in the NFL I've watched for years has ever run like a robot.

My point is that in Madden they don't run like robots. I'm seriously beginning to think you have never seen Madden 2004.

Like I said before, the Madden version of Ricky has absolutely nothing even close to real life about it, IT DOESN'T look like Ricky. In 2K3 you see the stubble on Ricky's face, the dreads on the back of his jersey and anything else that is Ricky.

You have your opinion, and I have the truth, in Madden the guys look PDG and very close to the way they look in real life, easily the equal of the Sega game.

You can continue to play this terrible excuse for a football simulation, thats your problem, its pretty bad when a game can't even get something as simple as the replay system right.

You can continue to play the inferior games that you seem to enjoy for whatever reason, it's pretty bad when you have to reach for something like the replay system (which I see no problems with) to dog on it.

For now I will continue to listen to my Madden loving friends complain about the let-down Madden 2004 is,

Funny, I have yet to hear anybody that has actually played the game say anything bad about it, in fact the people that rate video games for a living seem to agree that it's the best football game ever released for any system.

while I enjoy a true grid-iron classic that makes me proud of the NFL. Just play ESPN NFL Football once and then tell me that its worse. As I have said before, I don't care what you play...its your loss.

I have played that inferior game, and while it's a big step up in the 2K series (the other ones really blew hard) it's still no match for Maddens gameplay, options, realism, playbook, simulation capabilities... in fact the only place that Sega has matched EA on is in Graphics.

Some people prefer eye-candy to actual gameplay, hey it's your choice, but gameplay, realism, and options are what makes a game for me. And in those areas EA Sports is still lightyears ahead of Sega.

I'm really not to big on arguing with fellow finfans about a video-game, but this is the way it is. If Madden makes you happy, great!, I was simply stating my opinion. The only reason I posted was to see if I could get a good reason as to why people play it, I still don't (and probably never will) understand. 2K4 RULES!

I'm not either, but you came in here all aggresive and slamming something without any basis and slammed us for enjoying something that is allmost universally recognised as a superior product, if you didn't expect some kind of reply then you were as wrong about that as you are about the Madden game. I have given you reasons why people play it (Superior Gameplay, options, playbooks, simulation) if you refuse to hear them then theres nothing I can say to make you hear. But if you don't believe me, then try theese guys.

ESPNGamer reviews:
Realism: 10
Graphics: 9
Controll: 10
Overall experience: 10
Total score: 47 of 50
(ESPN NFL Football got 43 of 50, and this was an ESPN review!)


GameSpot/PS2
Editors' Choice / Score: 9.2

Gamepro: Rating 5.0 (of 5)

IGN.com: "Once again, Madden's number one"

Globetechnology.com: "Madden NFL 2004 brings drastic improvements to both gameplay and extras. Those alterations reaffirm the title as the preeminent sports release."

PSM Magazine: "Simply the deepest sports game ever made. It's got almost everything a football fan could ever want in a game -- and then some."

Official US Playstation: (Score 100 out of 100) "Yep, Tiburon's gotta go and give us a new greatest NFL game ever made. Again. And they'll probably do it again next year. "

Electronic Gaming Monthly: Score 93 (Game of the month)

Tips & Tricks Magazine: "After 14 years, the Madden NFL series still represents the epitome of sports games."

oh, and if that doesn't do the trick, during this years E3 Expo, Madden 2004 won the following awards.

Best Sports Game - PlayStation®2
Best Sports Game - Xbox
Best Sports Game / Runner Up - GameCube
Best NGC Sports Game
Best GBA Sports Game

Not trying to change your mind, just pointing out that nearly everybody in the Biz disagrees with ya on this.

 

[JPhinfan86]

Fine, maybe they don't run like robots....they run like your playing electric football, where the guys just float around. One thing is for sure, however you want to describe the run game, the one thing that doesn't fit it is realistic. I've played the game and shut it off for this reason. The one single solitary thing that Madden has going for it is creation options, thats it.

Madden player models do not even come close to matching the models in 2K3, I don't see how you can say this. I think your just being stubborn and are trying to stick up for Madden. Your not fooling anyone, they aren't even close.

The problem with the replay system....it is NEVER accurate. Saying I have to "reach for something" is way off. I am telling you how it is, you can't claim to create an NFL simulation and leave out (screw up) an integral part of the NFL...that defeats the purpose. The same goes for the players looking like they do in real life, if your going to model the NFL, do it right, not just close.

When you say that YOU haven't heard anyone say anything bad about it, thats means nothing to ME. When I have 2 friends, who used to argue in favor of Madden like you are, tell me it sucks, I tend to think there is something seriously wrong (other then usual) with this new installment. Facts are facts, they loved the rest and hate this one. Some other member said this version is the same as last years....whatever, they said what they said.

I agree that up until 2K2 the series sucked. However, since then it has become the better of the two (Madden and 2K). Still, the crappy run game is where Madden fails to deliver in gameplay. Also, the tackling
(you know, only the important stuff).

As to the rating thing. There are billions of people in the United States, you think that just because twenty some odd people get paid to say this stuff that this is gonna change my mind? Think about it, Madden has sold better cuz gameplayers like sports FANTASY games. They don't like the more serious (accurate) games. So, you think that when there is money to be made by giving a good rating to a game people love so much, they won't? Business is business. Your probably gonna claim thats a shallow attempt at something, that would only show that you are naive.

How about we end this arguement with one of your quotes:

"No amount of belief makes something a fact"

 

[Barbarian]

Originally posted by JPhinfan86
The problem with the replay system....it is NEVER accurate. Saying I have to "reach for something" is way off. I am telling you how it is, you can't claim to create an NFL simulation and leave out (screw up) an integral part of the NFL...that defeats the purpose.

Well, we will just have to agree to disagree, I have 90% of game players on my side, so I feel extreamly comfortable on this one. Your right "No amount of belief makes something a fact" the facts are out there for everybody to see and allmost everybody out there has made up their mind to disagree with you. Especially the guys that make a living at rating games who allmost unanimously agree that Madden is superior.

But I do have to wonder what you are talking about here on the replay system.

Are you refering to instant replay challenges?

If so I have yet to have one that after looking at the replay myself I disagree with the computer, even in the cases where it screwed me over. The Challenge system is dead on perfect.

If your refering to something else (like instant replays) then I have no idea WTF you are talking about. Perhaps if you were a bit more specific I might be able to dialogue this out a bit further.

 

[Barbarian]

Originally posted by JPhinfan86
When you say that YOU haven't heard anyone say anything bad about it, thats means nothing to ME. When I have 2 friends, who used to argue in favor of Madden like you are, tell me it sucks, I tend to think there is something seriously wrong (other then usual) with this new installment. Facts are facts, they loved the rest and hate this one. Some other member said this version is the same as last years....whatever, they said what they said.

oh, and I think I can explain why they didn't like it.

They probably didn't give it enough of a chance, because the game speed in Madden 2004 is much more realistic than in 2003. It's a faster pace and alot of people that I have seen got frustrated at first, but then they adjusted to the new more realistic speed of the game and love it.

It's that learning curve that Primetime keeps talking about in his posts on the game.

 

[JPhinfan86]

You say that the people who make a living rating games are on your side? Take a look at these reviews from Game Informer Magazine (true video game testers).

Reiner's opinion: "Madden has become a deeper simulation, but it hasn't evolved to the degree that Sega's title has." Basically he's saying its the same old, same old. The one thing Madden has is creation options. "ESPN NFL Football is jam-packed with new features innovative ideas, and must-see elements. First-person football sounds like a nightmare, but Sega figured out a way to make it work. It can be a little disorientating at times, BUT IT CAPTURES THE REALISM OF THE SPORT BETTER THAN ANY OTHER GAME. ESPN will also please graphics snobs with its detailed out-of-game cinematics and smooth animations. The play is still a little spotty, especially in the passing game, BUT IT'S STILL HOME TO THE BEST RUNNING ATTACK." He means realistic running movements and logical blocking. "WHEN IT COMES TO SHEER ENTERTAINMENT, SEGA'S GAME DEFINITELY DELIVERS THE MOST." He gives it a 9.25 rating.

Here is what he had to say about Madden 2004:

He starts off by saying "This year's Madden is a bold new step for video game sports." He talks about the Ownership options, stadium renovations, hiring coaching staffs, setting concession and ticket prices, relocation to different cities and the ability to improve players in mini-camp. After he is through talking about the creation and managment options, this is what he says. "On the field , it's not quite as glamorous, but better than past efforts. Altogether, the gameplay is finally gelling together like I always hoped it would, BUT THE BIGGEST DRAW IN THIS YEAR'S GAME IS THE DEPTH THAT HAS BEEN IMPLEMENTED INTO TEAM MANAGEMENT. FANTASY FOOTBALL FANATICS NEEDN'T LOOK FURTHER." He gives this a 9.25 rating.

So what he is sayin is, if you want to play a football game then ESPN NFL Football is for you. If you want to play Franchise Tycoon the Madden is for you. Personally I'm in it for some football, I get my fantasy fill through yahoo and rollercoaster tycoon on my PS2.

Another reviewer by the name Kato has this to say:

Madden 2004: "It may be managment freaks like myself who derive the most from this year's Madden."

ESPN NFL Football: "[ESPN] doesn't just tack on more, but instead gives gamers a new experience."


The Gamecube version of Madden was given a 8.75 (there was no review for ESPN NFL Football on this console).

The XBOX versions:

Madden 2004: 9 rating
ESPN NFL Footall: 9.25 rating

 

[Barbarian]

Originally posted by JPhinfan86
You say that the people who make a living rating games are on your side? Take a look at these reviews from Game Informer Magazine (true video game testers).

Reiner's opinion: "Madden has become a deeper simulation, but it hasn't evolved to the degree that Sega's title has." Basically he's saying its the same old, same old. The one thing Madden has is creation options. "ESPN NFL Football is jam-packed with new features innovative ideas, and must-see elements. First-person football sounds like a nightmare, but Sega figured out a way to make it work. It can be a little disorientating at times, BUT IT CAPTURES THE REALISM OF THE SPORT BETTER THAN ANY OTHER GAME. ESPN will also please graphics snobs with its detailed out-of-game cinematics and smooth animations. The play is still a little spotty, especially in the passing game, BUT IT'S STILL HOME TO THE BEST RUNNING ATTACK." He means realistic running movements and logical blocking. "WHEN IT COMES TO SHEER ENTERTAINMENT, SEGA'S GAME DEFINITELY DELIVERS THE MOST." He gives it a 9.25 rating.

Here is what he had to say about Madden 2004:

He starts off by saying "This year's Madden is a bold new step for video game sports." He talks about the Ownership options, stadium renovations, hiring coaching staffs, setting concession and ticket prices, relocation to different cities and the ability to improve players in mini-camp. After he is through talking about the creation and managment options, this is what he says. "On the field , it's not quite as glamorous, but better than past efforts. Altogether, the gameplay is finally gelling together like I always hoped it would, BUT THE BIGGEST DRAW IN THIS YEAR'S GAME IS THE DEPTH THAT HAS BEEN IMPLEMENTED INTO TEAM MANAGEMENT. FANTASY FOOTBALL FANATICS NEEDN'T LOOK FURTHER." He gives this a 9.25 rating.

So what he is sayin is, if you want to play a football game then ESPN NFL Football is for you. If you want to play Franchise Tycoon the Madden is for you. Personally I'm in it for some football, I get my fantasy fill through yahoo and rollercoaster tycoon on my PS2.

Yawn... okay you found one guy that liked ESPN better... you know, I'm certain you can find a reviewer out there that Liked Mad Dog Mcree also. And that game was a putrid pile of dog vomit.

Oh, and you sure do seem to spend most of that time putting spin on what he says... I read quite a bit of praise for madden in there, but you tried to spin it every which way and make compliments sound like negatives... do you work for the rebublican party? Or maybe even the Jets? Because spin like that is amazing, but then again, if you just put the reviewers words up there and didn't spin the hell out of them then it would look like a reviewer saying good things about both games instead of saying one was better than the other, and that wouldent back up your statement... you have a long career ahead of you in politics.

Another reviewer by the name Kato has this to say:

Madden 2004: "It may be managment freaks like myself who derive the most from this year's Madden."

ESPN NFL Football: "[ESPN] doesn't just tack on more, but instead gives gamers a new experience."

and your point is? he says good things about both games, he doesn't say either one is any better than the other and doesn't raise any of the bogus points you tried to raise. In fact I have yet to see ANY published reviewer raise any of the rediculous points you have futilly tried to raise against the Madden game.

The Gamecube version of Madden was given a 8.75 (there was no review for ESPN NFL Football on this console).

8.75 sounds pretty good I guess, I have never played the gamecube (The system, not just the game) so I wouldent know anything about the system. But since they havent rated ESPN yet this really doesnt say anything, does it?

The XBOX versions:

Madden 2004: 9 rating
ESPN NFL Footall: 9.25 rating

Thats nice, but the PS2 rankings were a little different if I recall correctly.

Never played the X-Box version (I can't stand the X-Box controllers, hate them with a passion) so I can't speak about that, but the PS2 version and PC version of Madden are incredable, and a VAST majority of reviewers agree with me, just because you found one (I'm not counting the X-Box as I don't know jack about it and am not including it in mine either) guy that agrees with you doesn't mean that the huge list that I posted is in any danger of being invalidated. In fact, the fact that you could only find one guy to say that the PS2 or PC version was better after such a long wait seems to reinforce what I posted. Thank you. :)

 

[Biggunndunn]

Both of you just let it go...it is just a game!

or even better start a poll thread

 

[JPhinfan86]

I gave Madden its props in the whole creation thing, that's the only thing about that game I can stand. I have spent time creating teams and stuff, but what I was saying is when it comes to playing football, Madden isn't the game for me.

I didn't try to spin anything, I stated the postives for Madden and it shows that Madden is for creation buffs and ESPN is for football finatics.

 

[Barbarian]

Originally posted by JPhinfan86
I gave Madden its props in the whole creation thing, that's the only thing about that game I can stand. I have spent time creating teams and stuff, but what I was saying is when it comes to playing football, Madden isn't the game for me.

I didn't try to spin anything, I stated the postives for Madden and it shows that Madden is for creation buffs and ESPN is for football finatics.

okay... well, that said, I think Biggunndunn has a point, let's just let this one drop. You might be right about the X-Box version (I dunno, like I said, never played it, I hate the X-Box, but thats a different discussion entirely ) and if thats the only verson your commenting on, well, then, I can't really say for certain anything about it. I just know that the PS2 nd PC versions are the best football games/sims on the market.

 

[XoPhinsoX]

Originally posted by JPhinfan86
Whats wrong with Maddens run game? EVERYTHING. The way u can push back on the controls and have the guy turn like a robot is completely embarassing to the sport of football. You could set up the perfect defense and plug the right gap and the guy would "robot" his way out. The passing game- you can throw deep EVERY SINGLE PLAY and score, completely unrealistic. Player models- Since when does Olindo Mare look EXACTLY like Jason Sehorn (or any other white guy in the NFL)? To answer the question of why does my friend hate 04....he told me you can't tackle anyone, even on easy. He's not the first I've had tell me that. In the 2K series the players look like they do in real life (Ricky complete with his dreads). The run game is realistic, if the block isn't you have to make a legitimate juke or tackled. The passing is extremely realistic, its set to mock the true NFL. You will rarely see Gannon leave the pocket in 2K3, and it is difficult to contain Vick. If the QB is hit while releasing, the pass is in-accurate. I honestly don't see why people like Madden, I played it for two seconds and killed the other team, to me thats no fun, i like to put together drives that are realistically conducted.

I think your friend just isn't good. He can't tackle on easy? Yeah, that's a problem man. Try passing deep on me every down. I guarantee I'll pick you off within 4 tries. The "stop robot" thing you are talking about...guess what? It's been in every Madden, so what's the problem now? In Madden you have to juke or spin or you get tackled, or you may break tackles with runners like RW and a few others. It's also hard to contain Vick in Madden, he's awfully quick..I just got done using him tonight actually. I just think Madden is to much of a challenge for your friend :D

 

[XoPhinsoX]

Originally posted by JPhinfan86
When your in the open field on Madden you can use the unrealistic running movements to get around the guy, how can anyone who thinks they know football deny this? Its as plain as day, its a terrible feature that makes Madden worse then Gameday. In Madden, Ricky looks nothing even remotely like he does in 2K3 or in real life, the only thing Madden Ricky has going is that hes black and has a visor, that doesn't cut it. Your comment (excuse) as to why Mare looks like Sehorn, that just shows EA Sports lack of attention to detail, if Sega Sports could do it why can't they? I'm not trying to convince anyone that they should like the 2K series, I couldn't care less, however I just do not, in any way, see how you could like Madden. The game is the same as they guy, repetitive, annoying and completely off the mark in everything football. Madden maybe used to be a good coach, fine, but now he's just a rambling old guy who makes me wish Dennis Miller was back in the booth. SOOOOO, ESPN NFL Football (2K4) is the game to have, IMO...and thats all I have to say.
Madden 2004 ~~~>:samurai: <~~~~NFL 2K4 :dance:

Dude, are you plaing tecmo bowl here? Ricky has dreads in Madden as does Shockey with his long hair. I could care less if Mare has the same facial feature as Sehorn. How often am I seeing Mares face in the game? A few times after I kick a FG or extra point? Post a pic of Mare from 2k4.

 

[XoPhinsoX]

Originally posted by JPhinfan86
You say that the people who make a living rating games are on your side? Take a look at these reviews from Game Informer Magazine (true video game testers).

Reiner's opinion: "Madden has become a deeper simulation, but it hasn't evolved to the degree that Sega's title has." Basically he's saying its the same old, same old. The one thing Madden has is creation options. "ESPN NFL Football is jam-packed with new features innovative ideas, and must-see elements. First-person football sounds like a nightmare, but Sega figured out a way to make it work. It can be a little disorientating at times, BUT IT CAPTURES THE REALISM OF THE SPORT BETTER THAN ANY OTHER GAME. ESPN will also please graphics snobs with its detailed out-of-game cinematics and smooth animations. The play is still a little spotty, especially in the passing game, BUT IT'S STILL HOME TO THE BEST RUNNING ATTACK." He means realistic running movements and logical blocking. "WHEN IT COMES TO SHEER ENTERTAINMENT, SEGA'S GAME DEFINITELY DELIVERS THE MOST." He gives it a 9.25 rating.

Here is what he had to say about Madden 2004:

He starts off by saying "This year's Madden is a bold new step for video game sports." He talks about the Ownership options, stadium renovations, hiring coaching staffs, setting concession and ticket prices, relocation to different cities and the ability to improve players in mini-camp. After he is through talking about the creation and managment options, this is what he says. "On the field , it's not quite as glamorous, but better than past efforts. Altogether, the gameplay is finally gelling together like I always hoped it would, BUT THE BIGGEST DRAW IN THIS YEAR'S GAME IS THE DEPTH THAT HAS BEEN IMPLEMENTED INTO TEAM MANAGEMENT. FANTASY FOOTBALL FANATICS NEEDN'T LOOK FURTHER." He gives this a 9.25 rating.

So what he is sayin is, if you want to play a football game then ESPN NFL Football is for you. If you want to play Franchise Tycoon the Madden is for you. Personally I'm in it for some football, I get my fantasy fill through yahoo and rollercoaster tycoon on my PS2.

Another reviewer by the name Kato has this to say:

Madden 2004: "It may be managment freaks like myself who derive the most from this year's Madden."

ESPN NFL Football: "[ESPN] doesn't just tack on more, but instead gives gamers a new experience."


The Gamecube version of Madden was given a 8.75 (there was no review for ESPN NFL Football on this console).

The XBOX versions:

Madden 2004: 9 rating
ESPN NFL Footall: 9.25 rating

A whole .25 from one guy. You've conviced us ;\

Btw, I have XBOX

 

[JPhinfan86]

Yeah, about the whole .25 thing, the only reason I posted it was because everyone was saying that 2K4 doesn't even compare to Madden, where as these guys rate it better.

Like I told Barbarian before, I don't know why they don't like the new Madden. They loved every single Madden before this year, but told me they can't stand 2004. That's not me talkin'.

As far as the Mare pic from 2K4, I can only post a pic if its offered as a screenshot on a site. So far that hasn't happened. If it does I post it.

I agree to just drop it, nothing you guys say is gonna change my mind about Madden and I don't care if you don't like 2K4....I just wanted to show you why I liked it better. :up: :friday:

 

[Barbarian]

Originally posted by JPhinfan86
Yeah, about the whole .25 thing, the only reason I posted it was because everyone was saying that 2K4 doesn't even compare to Madden, where as these guys rate it better.

Like I told Barbarian before, I don't know why they don't like the new Madden. They loved every single Madden before this year, but told me they can't stand 2004. That's not me talkin'.

First, I wasn't trying to say they don't compare. ESPN is definately in the same league, I just found it inferior to Madden, but it's still probably the 2nd best football game on the market. I never dogged it, I just said that compared to the best it didn't match up.

And I explained why your friends probably didn't like it. I posted about game speed earlier in the thread, re-read my post and you'll understand why they probably don't like it. The game speed has increased to realistic levels and it's frustrating at forst, but when they get used to it (assuming they actually give it a real chance) then they will probably love it.