Martin to meet with Dolphins soon to discuss future with team | Page 8 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Martin to meet with Dolphins soon to discuss future with team

Trade him for whatever you can get. If no one is willing to trade then cut him. He's not good enough as a player to keep on the team with all the further problems he could cause in the locker room.
 
JTC111 said:
While I agree that weakens any case he might bring, it's not a prerequisite to bringing suit. AFAIK, the law doesn't require a person to notify anyone in order for the harassment to have happened. If it does, I don't remember having read anything on the EEOC site that confirmed that. But I read that stuff way back when this story broke, so I could be wrong on that. I'd be surprised if that was the case though, because you'd think his mother would have warned him at some point, knowing he was unhappy and thought he was being mistreated, that he had an obligation to report the abuse to someone. If it is the case, it blows up the theory many here have held in that Martin's mother has manipulated this entire thing.

Despite Martin's weakened case, however, I doubt very much the Dolphins would want to fight it out in court. The things that were said and texted are pretty vile. Unless they pick the jury pool from a select few Finheaven posters, that crap isn't going to play well in court, especially if the jury is made up of women in some significant part. Bringing in ex-players to say it's normal won't work because Martin's team will bring in just as many to say it's over the line.

Turner is probably the biggest problem for the Dolphins' defense. He knew about some of it and he knew or suspected Martin had mental health issues. Being in a supervisory role over the O-Line, he shares responsibility with the organization to create and maintain a legally acceptable workplace environment. The blow up doll thing could become an issue if Wells' notes or tapes (I don't know how he cataloged information) show that the player's accusations of misrepresentation of his testimony contrast with what was said in private. At the very least, it would be evidence of Turner's poor judgment and likely work in Martin's favor.

Lastly, if it goes to court, you allow for the possibility that a judge will dictate the remedy. That could become a huge problem for the league and require a level of monitoring they'd rather avoid both from a cost perspective and a paperwork perspective.
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Yes, what was said in those text message and voicemails are pretty vile but most, if not all of them, occurred outside the purview of the head coach and team. Thus the team has no control over what was said, to whom they were said to or to their overall context.

If the blowup doll was given to Martin, he may have had a case but it wasn't. It was given to McDonald who had no problem with it. McDonald also has no problem with the Miami Dolphins or Coach Turner so that could make it more difficult for Martin to prove his case.

The Dolphins would not be taking Martin to court over the harassment but for the remaining portion of the signing bonus he received as a rookie. The harassment case Martin would bring up would be a separate case.
 
Dolphins512 said:
Found a decent article on this subject today....

http://www.artesianews.com/2014/02/...artins-legal-options-limited-in-dolphin-case/
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Found these paragraphs interesting.
Martin told Ted Wells, the investigator appointed by the NFL, that he never reported repeated harassment at the hands of fellow lineman Richie Incognito and two others. Wells found that Martin “did his best to honor” an unwritten “Judas” code against snitching on fellow players.

Because his employer was apparently unaware of the problems, it would be more difficult for Martin to win a workplace harassment lawsuit against the team, said Miami labor attorney Michael Landen. And in some cases, Martin seemed to go along in a bid to fit in.
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and
If Martin did pursue legal action, University of Miami law professor David Abraham said the remedies are limited. Workers in discrimination and harassment cases frequently seek reinstatement to their jobs and back pay, he said. In Martin’s case, the Dolphins continued to honor their contract with him after he abruptly left the team in October.

“There is no issue of back pay, because the Dolphins did not withhold any of his contracted salary,” Abraham said. But, he added, there’s clear evidence of harassment. “When you leave your job, that’s a pretty clear demonstration of a hostile workplace.”

Getting a job back on the football field is another matter. Martin told Wells he hopes to play in the NFL again, but it’s an open question whether the Dolphins would welcome him back given the controversy over the bullying case. Landen said Martin could negotiate a financial settlement with the Dolphins in return for his release, making him a free agent who could sign with any other team.

Simply releasing him could be viewed as employer retaliation, he added.

“If the Dolphins cut Martin, they better be able to demonstrate it’s because of inabilities on the field or their actions are really going to be under the microscope,” Landen said. “That could expose them to some liability.”
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Geforce said:
Yes, what was said in those text message and voicemails are pretty vile but most, if not all of them, occurred outside the purview of the head coach and team. Thus the team has no control over what was said, to whom they were said to or to their overall context.

If the blowup doll was given to Martin, he may have had a case but it wasn't. It was given to McDonald who had no problem with it. McDonald also has no problem with the Miami Dolphins or Coach Turner so that could make it more difficult for Martin to prove his case.

The Dolphins would not be taking Martin to court over the harassment but for the remaining portion of the signing bonus he received as a rookie. The harassment case Martin would bring up would be a separate case.
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We were talking about Martin bringing suit, but I don't mind speculating on what might happen should the Dolphins sue Martin.

The voicemails and texts would be likely be brought in as rebuttal evidence since the Dolphins would have to claim that Martin left without cause. Once they do that, Martin's attorney would have the burden of producing evidence to show that harassment was taking place. The texts and emails would be used to corroborate that. Besides, it's unlikely that none of the texts were sent while Incognito was at a Dolphins facility or at a time when he was under Dolphin supervision. The attorney will be able to get date and time signatures and any that correspond with hours he would have been at work, and for any that fall within those hours, the entire conservation would likely be entered into evidence, even if part of it were not during those hours. The Fins lawyer might be successful in having conversations that never took place at work excluded, but since they would go towards establishing a pattern of abusive behavior that spilled either out of or into the workplace, I think it's more likely they'd be allowed.

The Dolphins would have to claim that Turner acted appropriately because to do otherwise is to admit culpability and that would likely lose the case. Turner will have to testify and when he says that he never crossed the line between what's appropriate and what's inappropriate, he'll open the door to cross-examination regarding his actions and/or inactions. At that point, a good lawyer will get the doll story in as a means of impeaching the witness. The Fins would then have the option of calling Andrew McDonald. And here's where it would become interesting, at least to me... McDonald is claiming that Wells mischaracterized what was exchanged between them. I'm sure Wells wasn't relying strictly on his memory when he was conducting interviews. I'd guess that he either taped the conversations, took copious notes, or had someone there working a shorthand machine (like court reporters use). If Wells characterized the interview accurately, McDonald never testifies. Further, to bring McDonald to the stand would mean the Dolphins were trying to impeach the credibility of a report which they requested and the league sanctioned.

And regarding your last point about separate cases, unlikely. If the Dolphins brought suit against Martin for leaving; harassment would be his countersuit and part of his defense. I think they'd have to be tried together because you can't leave the possibility that both parties could go into court and win. The Fins can't win their suit if harassment is proven, and Martin can't win his lawsuit if the Fins are found to not be culpable.
 
truedolfan57 said:
demonstration of a hostile workplace? does he not know he's talking about professional football? are there any non hostile workplaces in the nfl? lol
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Good luck convincing whatever number of mothers with daughters sitting on that jury that texts like this are okay:

  • "We are going to run train on your sister. She loves me. I'm going to fu** her without a condom and cum in her cu**."
  • "I'm going to bang the sh** out of her and spit on her and treat her like sh**."
  • "Hear your sister has a wolf-pu**. A fat, hairy pu***."

And when they say Martin was doing it too, Martin's team brings out the psychologist to review the wealth of empirical evidence to show that his behavior was consistent with victims of bullying. At that point, Miami had better hope that none of the women on the jury have ever had a son or daughter that was bullied or they're sunk.
 
imo, the sheer volume of questionable behavior by Martin goes way beyond "fitting in" and hurts his case. also, the drugs and drinking could end up making him less sympathetic to those mothers on the jury.
 
rent this space said:
imo, the sheer volume of questionable behavior by Martin goes way beyond "fitting in" and hurts his case. also, the drugs and drinking could end up making him less sympathetic to those mothers on the jury.
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Therein lies the problem. It's not a slam dunk for either party, so both have to be concerned they'll lose ...and the loss could be big. That's a lot to risk just to avoid a settlement.
 
I don't even think there will be a "settlement".

Martin will be reinstated, and Incognito is gone as a free agent. If Martin doesn't want to return to the Dolphins, he will have to ask for his release. I'm sure that will come with a release of all liability....
 
JTC111 said:
We were talking about Martin bringing suit, but I don't mind speculating on what might happen should the Dolphins sue Martin.

The voicemails and texts would be likely be brought in as rebuttal evidence since the Dolphins would have to claim that Martin left without cause. Once they do that, Martin's attorney would have the burden of producing evidence to show that harassment was taking place. The texts and emails would be used to corroborate that. Besides, it's unlikely that none of the texts were sent while Incognito was at a Dolphins facility or at a time when he was under Dolphin supervision. The attorney will be able to get date and time signatures and any that correspond with hours he would have been at work, and for any that fall within those hours, the entire conservation would likely be entered into evidence, even if part of it were not during those hours. The Fins lawyer might be successful in having conversations that never took place at work excluded, but since they would go towards establishing a pattern of abusive behavior that spilled either out of or into the workplace, I think it's more likely they'd be allowed.

The Dolphins would have to claim that Turner acted appropriately because to do otherwise is to admit culpability and that would likely lose the case. Turner will have to testify and when he says that he never crossed the line between what's appropriate and what's inappropriate, he'll open the door to cross-examination regarding his actions and/or inactions. At that point, a good lawyer will get the doll story in as a means of impeaching the witness. The Fins would then have the option of calling Andrew McDonald. And here's where it would become interesting, at least to me... McDonald is claiming that Wells mischaracterized what was exchanged between them. I'm sure Wells wasn't relying strictly on his memory when he was conducting interviews. I'd guess that he either taped the conversations, took copious notes, or had someone there working a shorthand machine (like court reporters use). If Wells characterized the interview accurately, McDonald never testifies. Further, to bring McDonald to the stand would mean the Dolphins were trying to impeach the credibility of a report which they requested and the league sanctioned.

And regarding your last point about separate cases, unlikely. If the Dolphins brought suit against Martin for leaving; harassment would be his countersuit and part of his defense. I think they'd have to be tried together because you can't leave the possibility that both parties could go into court and win. The Fins can't win their suit if harassment is proven, and Martin can't win his lawsuit if the Fins are found to not be culpable.
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Martin has a better chance of bringing a lawsuit against Incognito than he does against the Miami Dolphins.

Turner may have known about the hazing/teasing of Jon Martin but with Martin not saying his treatment by the hands of his teammates went to far you cannot expect the coach to know where to draw the line. With other player receiving the same or in Gardner's case, worse treatment, how is the coach to know that Martin was troubled if he is not told?

McDonald has already gone on record that Wells already had all the information he needed for his report when he approached him at the end of the investigation.

The Dolphins' case against Martin is a breach of contract issue and will argue they had no prior knowledge of any harassment because it was not brought to their attention. The Dolphins will say they have channels Martin could have, should have explored before leaving without cause if he felt harassed. Because Martin did not go through proper channels, it weakens his case of harassment. One could even argue that the reason the Martin Camp released those "edited" voicemails was to try to salvage something for the mistake Jon made by leaving the team without notice.
 
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