Martin vs. Incognito OVER... Martin vs. Philbin NEXT

[Vaark]

Irrational, awful human behavior with money involved almost always goes back to the money, in my experience.

whether you're looking at a 1920s Redding Railroad price and volume chart, one from the 1700s Dutch Tulip Market, or 19th century Japanese commodities vs today's AAPL or Facebook,'s they'll all look pretty similar since no matter the market or era, the emotions of greed and fear are a constant that transcends particulars. .

 

[TheWalrus]

If people saw this stuff going on and THEY didn't tell Philbin, it cannot be his fault. If they told him certain things and he spoke with who he needed to speak with and thought it was resolved (yet wasn't b/c of more provoking after the fact, that isn't Philbin's fault). If Philbin himself knew of this **** going on and didn't do anything about it, he needs to go

Yes he sets the tone. From what we saw on Hard Knocks last year it's that if you act like a tool, you're gone. Think Vontae Davis, think Chad Johnson.

I'm trying to imagine Tyson Clabo telling Philbin that he thought he was blocking Mario Williams pretty well and he thought he had a good pass set on that strip sack fumble and therefore he's not at fault. Philbin didn't buy it, nor am I buying this. Sports is a result oriented business. In other words, you either do something or you don't. And if you don't, there are consequences. Thinking something is resolved is not resolving it. Resolving it is resolving it.

But even if this is the tact you want to take... it's already in conflict with the press conference Philbin just gave, where he asserted that he had no knowledge that anything like this was going on until yesterday. He went out there and gave a careful timeline to show that this was all news to him.

Philbin should have to stand in front of cameras and explain how that is possible. To explain what his system is among his staff for reporting incidents and why either incidents were not reported, or if they were, why he didn't follow them up to an actual resolution.

 

[TheWalrus]

I'm always going to default to the most likely, to place the percentages on my side.

To that end, I'll say Martin is not gay, and that he wants to play football again.

After all, he was a football player a couple of weeks ago, right? I still haven't finished watching the tape of the Buffalo game, which was held while I was stuck outside Atlanta with car problems. I watched the first half last night, while Walrus was deciphering the identity of the idzk1994, or whatever. It was odd watching Martin and Incognito alongside, knowing what would unfold. Why should I jump to all kinds of bizarre assumptions, like Martin is aiming at a lawsuit? He's not an incompetent football player and that occupation pays well. He's young. I say he aspires to play again.

Now the tricky part. Is it advantageous for him to remain with the Dolphins, or aim somewhere else? That's not as clear cut, in terms of assigning favoritism. Lately I've been tinkering with the stock market. Quite different than what I'm accustomed to. I always know which way the number will move in sports, even if the result is a mystery. I assumed it would transfer to stocks. Not exactly. I've timed and flopped. I hate fear. The financial markets are driven by fear. Literally every day there's something to be scared of, apparently. That's why my handicapping is stressed. I know which way the fundamentals say it should move, but fear is ultra powerful. Also, what equates to normalcy? I aligned with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac a few months ago. Common. That may turn out to be a bomb. The shares have doubled since I invested. But I don't really care about that. In that case I'm not looking for a 100% profit. I'm targeting 50 or 60x. My handicapping instinct is that normalcy in that case is a release from conservatorship. I'm willing to throw away the fear, that the companies will be dissolved. Dissolved, how often does that happen?

Anyway, in Martin's case, if he evaluates correctly, I think normalcy and his best interest is to return to the Dolphins. He's not a premier player. They aren't stocked with premier guys at his position. Why shop for weakness at the position, like the agent for an undrafted kid, when he's already with a team straining for tackles? The contract is in place. Fewer variables.

Besides, not everybody hates Martin within the team. That's where I really take issue with some high profile posters and their recent themes. He may have left the team and have an unfortunate nickname but within 18 months you make friends. They are the only NFL family he knows. Now that Incognito is out of the way, players will feel comfortable speaking out against him, even if it's to Philbin and others in the organization, and not necessarily for public consumption.

That's a roundabout way of saying that I doubt Martin or his team will fire any kind of shot at Philbin or the Dolphins, tomorrow or at any point. They'll let this settle and attempt to quietly return to the fold, probably next season.

I think you're right that he would prefer not to, but I do think they will if they feel like the Dolphins PR response is calibrated to make Martin look bad.

I'm with you. I think he wants to play again, for the reasons you mention. But as I said last week, the only way to get back into the league is to show definitively that he was the victim. The first step in that was making Incognito a villain. Done. But if the Dolphins are going to dig their heels in and claim that Martin has a mental health issue, then I think they'll strike. They try and prove that this has been doing on for a long time and that Philbin and the rest of the staff was negligent and that Martin went through the chain of command to address problems and was rebuffed.

 

[UFGators]

What I want to know is, on what basis did the Dolphins issue an official statement that Martin is crazy? That to me is the gist of the Dolphins problem, it either proves negligence or reckless diregard for players' well being.

 

[Bumpus]

Flyn....



http://www.roanoke.com/sports/mcfarling/2231110-12/seahawks-coach-carrolls-approach-positively-unique.html

After reading this I threw up in my mouth a little bit.


Bump is old school.

- Rub some dirt on it and take a lap.
- Blood makes the grass grow.
- Goddammit, HIT SOMEBODY!


This entire situation is sickening to me.

"The pussification of America" - starts young. Brought about by the line of thinking that:
- Everyone gets a trophy.
- There are no losers.
- You are naturally entitled to be a winner.


This is the line of thinking that has gotten us to this point.

Poor wittle Martin. The bad man hurt his feelings.

Give me a ****ing break ... This is football we're talking about here. You know, the last popular (civilian) bastion of manhood in our culture.

... I guess at least I still have hockey. :idk:

 

[flynryan15]

After reading this I threw up in my mouth a little bit.


Bump is old school.

- Rub some dirt on it and take a lap.
- Blood makes the grass grow.
- Goddammit, HIT SOMEBODY!


This entire situation is sickening to me.

"The pussification of America" - starts young. Brought about by the line of thinking that:
- Everyone gets a trophy.
- There are no losers.
- You are naturally entitled to be a winner.


This is the line of thinking that has gotten us to this point.

Poor wittle Martin. The bad man hurt his feelings.

Give me a ****ing break ... This is football we're talking about here. You know, the last popular (civilian) bastion of manhood in our culture.

... I guess at least I still have hockey. :idk:

Except Seattle has one of the hardest hitting most aggressive defenses in the league and our olinerincluding Richie Bad Ass is abused weekly!

 

[Cleetus]

I smell a lawsuit vs the Miami Dolphins AND the NFL for allowing a bullying culture to remain in play. MONEY MONEY MONEY

 

[TheWalrus]

I'm beginning to wonder if the relative support shown for Incognito and not for Martin in these recent interview is not just a delayed reaction to the news and the instinct to rally around your guy, but a sign that the allegations made by Incognito's father are true, and that this notion that Martin is an addict who's been on the verge of suicide on three separate occasions is well known within the locker room.

That would jibe with Dave Hyde's report that the most explosive allegations are yet to come and will make what's already been revealed look like "kindergarten". Not just because of the nature of what's being alleged, but because it would directly refute the team's position to this point... that they didn't know that anything was wrong with Martin until Monday and nothing specific about Martin and Incognito until Sunday. The would be liars, clearly and boldly.

It's all a bit baffling. But it would give context to these player interviews... guys who might view Martin as a guy too fragile for any high stress work place. A guy with serious issues that need to be treated, rather than hidden.

 

[carjackistan]

If people saw this stuff going on and THEY didn't tell Philbin, it cannot be his fault. If they told him certain things and he spoke with who he needed to speak with and thought it was resolved (yet wasn't b/c of more provoking after the fact, that isn't Philbin's fault). If Philbin himself knew of this **** going on and didn't do anything about it, he needs to go

Yes he sets the tone. From what we saw on Hard Knocks last year it's that if you act like a tool, you're gone. Think Vontae Davis, think Chad Johnson.

How'd that work out for JoePa?

 

[carjackistan]

I'm beginning to wonder if the relative support shown for Incognito and not for Martin in these recent interview is not just a delayed reaction to the news and the instinct to rally around your guy, but a sign that the allegations made by Incognito's father are true, and that this notion that Martin is an addict who's been on the verge of suicide on three separate occasions is well known within the locker room.

That would jibe with Dave Hyde's report that the most explosive allegations are yet to come and will make what's already been revealed look like "kindergarten". Not just because of the nature of what's being alleged, but because it would directly refute the team's position to this point... that they didn't know that anything was wrong with Martin until Monday and nothing specific about Martin and Incognito until Sunday.

It's all a bit baffling. But it would give context to these player interviews... guys who might view Martin as a guy too fragile for any high stress work place. A guy with serious issues that need to be treated, rather than hidden.

That could be it, or at least a part of it. I'm inclined to think it's just that Martin is the anomaly, a guy who spoke out, and because it isn't the manly thing to do in an NFL locker room. Particularly an NFL locker room that still has the mindset of Saban and Parcells, that everything is kept internal.

 

[Spesh]

I'm beginning to wonder if the relative support shown for Incognito and not for Martin in these recent interview is not just a delayed reaction to the news and the instinct to rally around your guy, but a sign that the allegations made by Incognito's father are true, and that this notion that Martin is an addict who's been on the verge of suicide on three separate occasions is well known within the locker room.

That would jibe with Dave Hyde's report that the most explosive allegations are yet to come and will make what's already been revealed look like "kindergarten". Not just because of the nature of what's being alleged, but because it would directly refute the team's position to this point... that they didn't know that anything was wrong with Martin until Monday and nothing specific about Martin and Incognito until Sunday.

It's all a bit baffling. But it would give context to these player interviews... guys who might view Martin as a guy too fragile for any high stress work place. A guy with serious issues that need to be treated, rather than hidden.

I disagree.

In my opinion, they are rallying behind Incognito because Martin "quit" on them and any support for Martin would 1) make themselves look bad(they are selling an image after all) and 2) break up the status quo. Even players in Tampa are publicly supporting Schiano, and i dont think anyone can question how messed up that team has gotten(leaking medical records is vastly worse then anything thats happened here).
Not to mention the locker room was somewhat insulated. Granted, anyone could see whats happening had they looked hard enough, but most of their time at work would have been spent with position groups. Hell, even our quarterbacks would be more focused on chemistry with receivers and less concerned about their chemistry with the line.

Undoubtedly many of these players just want to get done with the interview, cause as few waves as possible, and put it behind them. If Martin was considered aloof and socially awkward(which i actually can see), they might find it more (personally) acceptable to lay blame on him then the scumbag-but-our-scumbag Incognito.

 

[laxcoach]

The mental health and suicide thing doesn't sit well with me.

1) You don't put someone who is suicidal in the highest profile position on your line. If the coaches knew that, they wouldn't have put him there.

2) the source is biased and can't be trusted. It smacks of discrediting the accuser.

3) the drugs thing... they "all" do drugs. don't kid yourself. It has nothing to do with anything.

4) Philbin has a son who died. He doesn't come off as a heartless bastard. I find it absolutely impossible that he knew JM was suicidal and didn't act on it. just plain impossible.

 

[Vaark]

If Richie Sr who was ahead of the reporters in awareness of his son's suspension and referenced the machinations of "Zuckerman" who at that point none of us knew to be Martin's agent is also correct about his suicidal tendencies and 3 attempts, occasional gun to head posturing, and drug abuse - then the Dolphins may well have been facilitating much more than a "hostile work environment."

**little regard for own life + gun availability +drugs + rage & revenge = "Potentially Dangerously Violent Work Environment" (aka potential to "Go Postal")**

If that's the case then if management was well aware of a potential ticking time bomb, if they didn't intervene then they essentially were placing his co-workers (ironically including Richie) in harms way.

 

[GasPed]

The key sentence: At the heart of the Seattle experiment is the theory that happy players make for better players. Screaming and swearing are discouraged. Sleep is prioritized. Players are urged to meet with support personnel if they have any problems, on or off the field. Meditation is viewed as just as important as lifting weights.

That means it is up to the player to make the adult move of letting Philbin know what is going on. Do you disagree? Nowhere does it state Carroll is in anyone's business trying to dig through their lives.

While the Seahawks are my second favorite team, and I think they could be on to something with this, I'm pretty hesitant to give a whole-hearted endorsement. Six failed drug tests in the past two years under Carroll's watch takes some of the lustre off this article.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

While the Seahawks are my second favorite team, and I think they could be on to something with this, I'm pretty hesitant to give a whole-hearted endorsement. Six failed drug tests in the past two years under Carroll's watch takes some of the lustre off this article.

Wait, are you suggesting that the Seahawks are doing well because they are cheating their nuts off the same way USC cheated their nuts off when Carroll was there? No. It can't be.