McDaniel on the TE position

[Ray R]

Sir, if you accept one handed catches, then we all accept one handed catches. No inserted “s” required.

I like it when people agree with me, no matter how lame my excuse is. - LOL

 

[The Goat]

Not looking at his receiving stats. He has the same YPC as Smythe. That tells me Smythe just isn't getting the same amount of targets which shouldn't be a surprise when Hill is getting the lions share in Miami followed by Waddle. Shultz has had one good receiving year in Dallas and the rest has been a little above average.

Now if you tell me he's better at blocking I'll listen, but I'm still not convinced that's worth the extra pricetag. That extra $3mik per year can go elsewhere and have a bigger impact.

You’re kidding, right?

If you look at the production of Smythe and Schultz side by side, it’s not particularly close.

Schultz averages nearly twice as many receiving TDs per season as Smythe has in his career, and has more than double the receptions and yards. He’s simply a better receiver. He’s also younger.

And their YPC aren’t the same. Schultz’s is over half a yard higher.

I like Smythe, but there’s no contest between the two as an offensive weapon.

 

[DOC ZINGO]

Not to be “that guy,” but is anyone else concerned about the fact that our football brain trust decided tight end was a position that didn’t matter and that we could fill with scrubs 6 months before it became clear that the common thread between the four best teams in the NFL is an elite tight end?

Kind of the same thought they had with RB position in previous years, it’s okay, just throw anyone back there, no need to overpay for talent upgrade.

 

[EasyRider]

I actually am acquainted with the original GEICO caveman. They didn't even resign him for the new commercials. Total garbage.

And he shouldn’t have been. Hes a terrible actor
He never even got an Emmy nomination

 

[Rick Cartman]

This is a weak TE class other than Bowers
I don't know where he is projected to go, but Jaheim Bell was used in a wide array of ways by Mike Norvell this year at FSU.
He's not exactly a blocking TE though so i don't think he will tickle McDaniel's fancy

 

[Golphindolphin]

I actually am acquainted with the original GEICO caveman. They didn't even resign him for the new commercials. Total garbage.

At least tell me they let him be in the "Cavemen" sitcom in 2007

 

[djphinfan]

Maybe we can bring Gesicki back. He did nothing for the Pats so he will be cheap.

you’re kidding right ?

Giving Gesicki 10 million dollars after watching four years of film is one of the dumbest GM decisions iver ever seen, seriously.

 

[E30M3]

Not looking at his receiving stats. He has the same YPC as Smythe. That tells me Smythe just isn't getting the same amount of targets which shouldn't be a surprise when Hill is getting the lions share in Miami followed by Waddle. Shultz has had one good receiving year in Dallas and the rest has been a little above average.

Now if you tell me he's better at blocking I'll listen, but I'm still not convinced that's worth the extra pricetag. That extra $3mik per year can go elsewhere and have a bigger impact.

I mean you started off with the wrong sentence. Perhaps look at that then make a judgement. Cause its not even close man.

 

[laxcoach]

I think Hill is going to surprise in year two.

Despite some penalties, his run blocking was phenomenal, especially for a guy that supposedly was more of a pass catcher in college.

Late in the season, I saw him leaking out quite a bit completely uncovered due to other routes around him.

Tua simply never looked that way. I think the reason is threefold: 1) Tua was getting pushed by the center of the pocket pretty quickly and couldn’t get past read 2 most of the time 2) Tua isn’t a check down guy right now, and hill was the check down 3) there may not be a level of trust yet.

When I hear things from MM like TE involvement is the next step, I think he means for Tua, not for the route concepts.

 

[fansinceGWilson]

You’re kidding, right?

If you look at the production of Smythe and Schultz side by side, it’s not particularly close.

Schultz averages nearly twice as many receiving TDs per season as Smythe has in his career, and has more than double the receptions and yards. He’s simply a better receiver. He’s also younger.

And their YPC aren’t the same. Schultz’s is over half a yard higher.

I like Smythe, but there’s no contest between the two as an offensive weapon.

The problem I and others have is NOT that Smythe is a top TE, but that the top TE wouldn't be used. Hx has taught FH, if Schultz were to become a Fin, his receiving stats would likely fall by half.

 

[Golphindolphin]

I think Hill is going to surprise in year two.

Despite some penalties, his run blocking was phenomenal, especially for a guy that supposedly was more of a pass catcher in college.

Late in the season, I saw him leaking out quite a bit completely uncovered due to other routes around him.

Tua simply never looked that way. I think the reason is threefold: 1) Tua was getting pushed by the center of the pocket pretty quickly and couldn’t get past read 2 most of the time 2) Tua isn’t a check down guy right now, and hill was the check down 3) there may not be a level of trust yet.

When I hear things from MM like TE involvement is the next step, I think he means for Tua, not for the route concepts.

I really have pretty high hopes for Hill as well. TE is a tricky position, there are only nine TE's in the HOF after all. You really have to "grow your own" too, never been a fan of giving a big deal to a free agent TE because if they were really "that dude" why would his original team ever let him go? The seed has been planted with Hill, hopefully we see the growth.

 

[gofins60]

Here is my problem. Miami has 6 receivers, including TEs, 6'3" or over. From my perspective, none have to be great blockers if the goal is to have them run routes and catch passes. Of those 6 receivers, Smythe was targeted 43 times. Not bad, but, keep in mind, most of those targets were in a string of about 6 games. Of those, 6, 3 (Chosen, Clay, Hill) were targeted 22 times. For many games, none were targeted.
Yes, I understand Miami didn't have a Kittle, but there are situations allowing tall big-bodied receivers to be targeted and, for the most part, weren't used. I remember very few in the RZ like Gesicki was (often). Of those 6 in 23, a total of one TD.
And, yes, I'd love to have a Kelce clone, although realistically, those are rare. But, I'm not convinced a better TE would be targeted much more than Smythe.

No I think he absolutely knew this and the moves prove it. Gesicki was supposed to flourish in this offense, I was just a homeristic as anyone that this would happen. What happened?

Not looking at his receiving stats. He has the same YPC as Smythe. That tells me Smythe just isn't getting the same amount of targets which shouldn't be a surprise when Hill is getting the lions share in Miami followed by Waddle. Shultz has had one good receiving year in Dallas and the rest has been a little above average.

Now if you tell me he's better at blocking I'll listen, but I'm still not convinced that's worth the extra pricetag. That extra $3mik per year can go elsewhere and have a bigger impact.

Not to be “that guy,” but is anyone else concerned about the fact that our football brain trust decided tight end was a position that didn’t matter and that we could fill with scrubs 6 months before it became clear that the common thread between the four best teams in the NFL is an elite tight end?

The problem I and others have is NOT that Smythe is a top TE, but that the top TE wouldn't be used. Hx has taught FH, if Schultz were to become a Fin, his receiving stats would likely fall by half.

The underlying theme here is very apparent. With Gesicki, he usually had good hands, made a lot of highlight reel catches, and was decent in the End Zone, but he couldn't block, was unable to get yards after the catch, and was easily manhandled by tiny DBs. When he was just used as a receiver with no expectations of YAC, he was productive. Once McDaniel took over, he wanted the TE as a blocker for his fancy running schemes. Gesicki didn't fit what McDaniel wanted, so he was gone the next year.

Smythe is the best TE on the roster, but he's a JAG, not a Kelce. Still, he was mostly dependable, and made some nice clutch catches, and occasionally even got some yards after the catch. However, the problem is that he deserves more targets, especially since Hill and Waddle get all of the attention, but he doesn't get many chances.

McDaniel seems to not want to use the TE as a receiver except on the rare occasion. IMO, even if Miami had a Kelce, McDaniel would have him blocking 95% of the time he's on the field. In fact, not only does McDaniel refuse to use the TE as a weapon in the passing game, he also mostly ignores throwing to any WR not named Hill or Waddle. How many times have we seen Tua throwing downfield to a covered Hill or Waddle when Smythe or another WR was open for a shorter, easy completion?

To be completely fair and objective, it might not be all McDaniel's fault, although he designs and calls the plays. It is possible that Tua can't see open receivers near the LOS because he has admitted that he has trouble seeing over the linemen. It's also possible that Tua feels pressured because of poor blocking and doesn't have time to look for an open WR or TE, so he just throws it to a covered Hill or Waddle. I think the three of them should all share the blame for not taking advantage of the TE; McDaniel for not wanting to use the TE in the passing game, Grier for not building a competent o-line, and Tua for not being able to make plays off-script by moving around and finding that open WR or TE.

 

[NY8123]

The underlying theme here is very apparent. With Gesicki, he usually had good hands, made a lot of highlight reel catches, and was decent in the End Zone, but he couldn't block, was unable to get yards after the catch, and was easily manhandled by tiny DBs. When he was just used as a receiver with no expectations of YAC, he was productive. Once McDaniel took over, he wanted the TE as a blocker for his fancy running schemes. Gesicki didn't fit what McDaniel wanted, so he was gone the next year.

Smythe is the best TE on the roster, but he's a JAG, not a Kelce. Still, he was mostly dependable, and made some nice clutch catches, and occasionally even got some yards after the catch. However, the problem is that he deserves more targets, especially since Hill and Waddle get all of the attention, but he doesn't get many chances.

McDaniel seems to not want to use the TE as a receiver except on the rare occasion. IMO, even if Miami had a Kelce, McDaniel would have him blocking 95% of the time he's on the field. In fact, not only does McDaniel refuse to use the TE as a weapon in the passing game, he also mostly ignores throwing to any WR not named Hill or Waddle. How many times have we seen Tua throwing downfield to a covered Hill or Waddle when Smythe or another WR was open for a shorter, easy completion?

To be completely fair and objective, it might not be all McDaniel's fault, although he designs and calls the plays. It is possible that Tua can't see open receivers near the LOS because he has admitted that he has trouble seeing over the linemen. It's also possible that Tua feels pressured because of poor blocking and doesn't have time to look for an open WR or TE, so he just throws it to a covered Hill or Waddle. I think the three of them should all share the blame for not taking advantage of the TE; McDaniel for not wanting to use the TE in the passing game, Grier for not building a competent o-line, and Tua for not being able to make plays off-script by moving around and finding that open WR or TE.

I would even dare say it can be one step further, due to the current line the play needs to progress with reads 1 and 2 and didn't have time for the 3rd and 4th reads. Re-watch the first Buffalo game and this is clearly evident, the scheme fits the players and as it should, it doesn't mean you don't need to improve the players and the scheme.

If you team up Smythe with a guy like Sam La Porta you fix a lot of ****. We can only hope a top TE talent falls to Miami in 2024.

 

[dan the fin]

I think we’ll move out of the 21st spot. Barring someone unexpected dropping.

Detroit could make a move up to get a desperately needed CB.

Also hoping McCarthy is still on the board at that point.

I’d love to include (force) Smythe into a trade as well and get rid of that cap hit.

I think McCarthy has a good chance to be gone by 21 let alone if we trade down. McCarthy will kill it at the combine and will end up higher then both Nix/Penix.

Since you are an OSU fan what you think of Stover at TE. I feel he may fit the athletic profile more then some guys. I think people get way to hung up on size/blocking. Miami runs wide zone blocking. Also the pass catching TE in our system (think Kittle) doesn't pass block much. Kettle had only 37 pass block attempts all year vs 371 run block attempt. He starts out inline but he needs to block out in space vs LBers and Safeties. Need a TE who has quick feet, not a guy that anchors on the line vs DEs.

 

[NBP81]

Not to be “that guy,” but is anyone else concerned about the fact that our football brain trust decided tight end was a position that didn’t matter and that we could fill with scrubs 6 months before it became clear that the common thread between the four best teams in the NFL is an elite tight end?

You can't do everything all at once and no matter how much you like TEs, what they fixed before TEs was more important than TE... Is what it is...