McDaniel on the TE position

[dan the fin]

Detroit could be a good trade down partner at 29 if there is a DB they like available at 21. We should get their 3rd round pick number 92 and a 5th in 2025.

Do you like McCarthy better than Bo Nix? It might be a moot point since I think Nix will be taken in the teens. Saints and Vikings come to mind.

I got McCarthy at QB4 at the moment. I think after the combine everyone will have him above Nix/Penix. JJ just has more upside. He has bigger arm and more athletic. JJ needs to bulk up more and gain experience through reps. Ideally he can sit a year and learn, kid just turned 21 and at Michigan they don't run a pass happy offense (less reps). But both Nix/Penix lack JJ type upside, more ready but that is because they are 5/6 year guys. They also both struggled a lot more at JJ age play against SEC/BIG defenses. They didn't look near as good until they played in pass happy Os vs Pac Ds. Penix for example played one game all year vs a top 50 college D (Michigan). Look what happened when he couldn't just stand in the pocket and throw the ball.

 

[Marino2.0]

The underlying theme here is very apparent. With Gesicki, he usually had good hands, made a lot of highlight reel catches, and was decent in the End Zone, but he couldn't block, was unable to get yards after the catch, and was easily manhandled by tiny DBs. When he was just used as a receiver with no expectations of YAC, he was productive. Once McDaniel took over, he wanted the TE as a blocker for his fancy running schemes. Gesicki didn't fit what McDaniel wanted, so he was gone the next year.

Smythe is the best TE on the roster, but he's a JAG, not a Kelce. Still, he was mostly dependable, and made some nice clutch catches, and occasionally even got some yards after the catch. However, the problem is that he deserves more targets, especially since Hill and Waddle get all of the attention, but he doesn't get many chances.

McDaniel seems to not want to use the TE as a receiver except on the rare occasion. IMO, even if Miami had a Kelce, McDaniel would have him blocking 95% of the time he's on the field. In fact, not only does McDaniel refuse to use the TE as a weapon in the passing game, he also mostly ignores throwing to any WR not named Hill or Waddle. How many times have we seen Tua throwing downfield to a covered Hill or Waddle when Smythe or another WR was open for a shorter, easy completion?

To be completely fair and objective, it might not be all McDaniel's fault, although he designs and calls the plays. It is possible that Tua can't see open receivers near the LOS because he has admitted that he has trouble seeing over the linemen. It's also possible that Tua feels pressured because of poor blocking and doesn't have time to look for an open WR or TE, so he just throws it to a covered Hill or Waddle. I think the three of them should all share the blame for not taking advantage of the TE; McDaniel for not wanting to use the TE in the passing game, Grier for not building a competent o-line, and Tua for not being able to make plays off-script by moving around and finding that open WR or TE.

IMO it isn’t McDaniel. It’s Tua and the players. Tua wants to throw downfield to a fault. He’s too aggressive. And it’s hard to blame him because our tight ends are awful. Durham Smythe sucks—he is slow and a bad route runner who doesn’t break tackles. Julian Hill is even worse. And our RBs aren’t very good receivers either.

Yes, the fact that our OL can’t hold up also plays a role in Tua not reaching his second and third and fourth reads. But I don’t think Tua would get there anyway on the vast majority of plays. Tua is the kind of QB who thinks almost everyone is open.

 

[Marino2.0]

You can't do everything all at once and no matter how much you like TEs, what they fixed before TEs was more important than TE... Is what it is...

I agree that you can’t do everything at once and we had more important needs than TE, but man, there were plenty of TEs there at 51 who would’ve helped us more than Cam Smith did.

 

[The Ghost]

I think McCarthy has a good chance to be gone by 21 let alone if we trade down. McCarthy will kill it at the combine and will end up higher then both Nix/Penix.

Since you are an OSU fan what you think of Stover at TE. I feel he may fit the athletic profile more then some guys. I think people get way to hung up on size/blocking. Miami runs wide zone blocking. Also the pass catching TE in our system (think Kittle) doesn't pass block much. Kettle had only 37 pass block attempts all year vs 371 run block attempt. He starts out inline but he needs to block out in space vs LBers and Safeties. Need a TE who has quick feet, not a guy that anchors on the line vs DEs.

FYI I wanted McCarthy on the board so someone could trade up to 21 to grab him, not for us to take him. Just wanted to be clear there.

I like Stover but I prefer Sinnott. That’s why I desperately want to trade down and grab a pick in the 70’s hopefully.

Detroit possessing the 73rd pick (TJ Hockenson) is the one I’d have my eye on. I am hoping there are some quality CB’s on the board at 21 that Detroit needs to make a move for. They appear to be an ideal trade down partner.

Coincidentally the Patriots traded down with the Chiefs from 21 to 29 in 2022, picking up 94 and 121. I’ll take 73 and 162 from Detroit and give them back a 2025 6th rounder. Or I’ll take 73 and they have to take Durham Smythe.

Lions also have the 92nd pick in round

 

[The Ghost]

Arizona has pick 27 by virtue of the Texans, as well as 35 while also possessing 66 and 71.

If they are interested in moving up to 21, they have the right assets to consummate a trade.

I’ll move twice, down to 29 with Detroit and then down to 35 with Arizona.

I'm ready to do a deal with Detroit on the first day of the new league year, involving Xavien Howard. I'll give them a steep discount on X, picking up a chunk of that salary, they also get pick 21. I want 73 and 92. I'll put other assets on the table to bring the value close to fair.

Detroit isn't going to find CB help in FA so they'll be left praying the 29th pick will solve that major hole(s) they have in the defensive backfield.

 

[Ruckus45]

I mean you started off with the wrong sentence. Perhaps look at that then make a judgement. Cause its not even close man.

Career they're .3 YPC apart. That's nothing

 

[Ruckus45]

At least tell me they let him be in the "Cavemen" sitcom in 2007

Yeah that's him

 

[Ruckus45]

You’re kidding, right?

If you look at the production of Smythe and Schultz side by side, it’s not particularly close.

Schultz averages nearly twice as many receiving TDs per season as Smythe has in his career, and has more than double the receptions and yards. He’s simply a better receiver. He’s also younger.

And their YPC aren’t the same. Schultz’s is over half a yard higher.

I like Smythe, but there’s no contest between the two as an offensive weapon.

Receiving TDs are by system. Raheem gets those red zone looks in Miami.

Career Shultz is only .3 YPC higher.

Production comes basically from Dallas using Schultz a bit more. If Miami wanted to use Smythe a bit more production would be the same.

They players aren't that different really - Schultz is overrated

 

[eMCee85]

There is weird coincidence/stat that whatever team Claypool is on takes a nose dive after he joins the team. Will try to find the podcast where I saw it…. It showed a graphic that was pretty damning. As much of an athlete that he is, I am ok with moving on from him.

Edit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/s/8gJemEUsMz

From Reddit

Chase Claypool’s teams have now lost 22 of the last 26 games that he has been active for.

Claypool was 3-6 in Dolphins games he was active for in 2023 including last night’s Wild Card loss, the Bears were 0-10 in games that Claypool played in and he went 1-6 in his last 7 games with the Steelers in 2022.

# the stats show a correlation when he’s merely on the roster as well. (Counting games he was inactive for)

- 2023 Dolphins before Claypool trade (5-1 record, scoring 37.1 points per game.)

- 2023 Dolphins after acquiring Claypool ( 6-6 record with 24 points per game. )

- 2023 Bears in games Claypool played in. ( 0-3 record , 15.6 ppg)

- 2023 Bears after Claypool stopped traveling with the team and was traded ( 22.3 ppg, 7-7 record )

- 2022 Steelers were 2-6 with Claypool, then after the trade 7-2.

- 2022 Bears were 3-5 when they acquired Claypool, proceeded to go 0-9 after acquiring him.

He can’t keep getting away with this!

If I was Grier, based off of this alone. I would cut him!! Haha

 

[Fin Fan in Cali]

I am waiting to see it happen. Why didn’t the team use Smythe more this year? I hope Coach McDaniel can get this right.

 

[CaneHammer]

If I was Grier, based off of this alone. I would cut him!! Haha

Would have placed his things in a box and left it at the front desk. Instructions would be to collect the playbook and block his access code.

 

[VAFinsfan72]

you’re kidding right ?

Giving Gesicki 10 million dollars after watching four years of film is one of the dumbest GM decisions iver ever seen, seriously.

That was the Pats GM which was Bellycheat who did that. Nobody would pay him that much again.

 

[VAFinsfan72]

The evolution of this offense, aside from an improved O-line would include a TE who can challenge the seam and short to intermediate passes, a big bodied 3rd receiver who is a possession specialist and using the RB's more in the short passing game and running between the tackles.

A proper TE alone, can make a significant difference for us

You are correct, McDaniel needs to tweak his offense to incorporate those aspects.

 

[dan the fin]

I am waiting to see it happen. Why didn’t the team use Smythe more this year? I hope Coach McDaniel can get this right.

They use Smythe a lot. He just isn't very good as a route runner and fails to get open. Then the QB starts to avoid guys like that. Zero trust in him.

Smythe was in on 493 total pass plays, of which he ran routes on 400 of those. So it wasn't like he was out there pass blocking. He is just not a good route runner at all, hence despite a catch rate of 85%, PFF has his receiving grade at 54.2. If you really focus on him in all 22 film, he is just not a good route runner. He is slow off the line, he tends to round routes, ect.

 

[djphinfan]

That was the Pats GM which was Bellycheat who did that. Nobody would pay him that much again.

no we paid him 10 million dollars.